1:1 behavior

johnkrumm · 09-29-2016, 07:58 AM

I tried out this new feature and like it, but once it's set, that's it, no option to regain the crop even in raw from what I can tell. I shot in both PEF and DNG, opened in Lightroom and DCU 5, and both displayed the 1:1 file as shot. With my EM1 I think believe I have the option to revert to the full aspect raw. Seems like the Pentax files are communicating in a different way, even if the raw data is still there.

Unregistered User · 09-29-2016, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by johnkrumm

I tried out this new feature and like it, but once it's set, that's it, no option to regain the crop even in raw from what I can tell. I shot in both PEF and DNG, opened in Lightroom and DCU 5, and both displayed the 1:1 file as shot. With my EM1 I think believe I have the option to revert to the full aspect raw. Seems like the Pentax files are communicating in a different way, even if the raw data is still there.

Well, the same behavior as with APS-C crop. It shreds the data but when it comes to file size it looks to be the same for 1:1 and 2:3. Should'nt it be smaller?

My Sony RX100 saves the whole RAW so that it can be "uncropped" when in ACR. My take on it would be to get a smaller file size but since it does look like it does not shrink I would prefer it to be "uncroppable"

Not a Number · 09-29-2016, 08:24 AM

You can't get a full frame resolution RAW from the APS-C crop either so it seems to me it is as designed. If you need Full Frame RAWs shoot it in full frame mode. You can crop it to 1:1 or APS-C or whatever you want in Post Processing.

As I recall in the K5 you could set the output format of JPEGs to 1:1. I believe the function was still in the K3 just not shown in the user manual. The K-1 may have a similar function. You won't get the crop lines in the viewfinder though.

photoptimist · 09-29-2016, 08:34 AM

What are the file sizes for RAW images of the same scene captured in 1:1 vs. full crop modes?

I'd think that Ricoh would either not read the superfluous data off the sensor or dump it early in the processing chain in order to maximize frame rate, buffer depth, and images per GB. That's how they are handling APS-C crop mode.

**ffking** · 09-29-2016, 08:43 AM - **1 Like**

changing the format is a click of a dial away, so you could always compose in 1:1 then shoot in FF and post process in 1:1

Unregistered User · 09-29-2016, 09:21 AM

The file sizes are as follows:

RAW FF 41385 kB, 1:1 41041 kB, Crop: 20325 kB

JPG FF 12386 kB, 1:1 8880 kB, Crop: 5348 kB

Gimbal · 09-29-2016, 09:41 AM

It seem as if the 1:1 actually is a normal uncropped 36MP raw file after all, with some parameters attached.
If a open a 1:1 crop in lightroom it displays as a 1:1 crop but takes up HD space as a normal full frame. But if I open the same file in rawtherapee it displays as a normal uncropped full frame.

I guess it works, but I would have preferred that a cropped shot stayed cropped.

Unregistered User · 09-29-2016, 09:57 AM - **1 Like**

You can get it all back in DCU aswell but the cropping feature in that program drives me bonkers. How do I confirm my crop? No idea... What does the different buttons do? No idea because there are no tool tips... (Stopped using tobacco 10 days ago so my fuse is kind of short these days...)

Gimbal · 09-29-2016, 10:03 AM - **1 Like**

Also note that there are a "new" (since 2016 09 07) DCU version 5.6.2 that fixes some problem with the crop function.

Unregistered User · 09-29-2016, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

Also note that there are a "new" (since 2016 09 07) DCU version 5.6.2 that fixes some problem with the crop function.

I installed that one right now but can not see any difference...

Paul the Sunman · 09-29-2016, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

The file sizes are as follows:

RAW FF 41385 kB, 1:1 41041 kB, Crop: 20325 kB

JPG FF 12386 kB, 1:1 8880 kB, Crop: 5348 kB

Well, that's disappointing. It seems that JPG is actually cropped but RAW not. So that does nothing for file size or burst rate. I don't see much point, apart from allowing you to compose in 1:1 initially if that is going to be your final format.

Unregistered User · 09-29-2016, 01:07 PM

I do find it very convenient to be able to see the final crop in the OVF or LV.

npc · 09-29-2016, 01:49 PM

Sensors are not normally optimised to read a random rectangle area but just full size and APS-C, so most probably it will be much slower to save a true 1:1 "raw" file rather than just dump the complete readout and only write the crop factor in the header.

MJKoski · 09-29-2016, 02:19 PM

Nikon does real crop with the RAW file and file size changes as well. This in 5:4 mode. That did not slow it down.

I remember Canon 1ds3 had all kinds of crops but they worked like 1:1 with Pentax.

Not a Number · 09-29-2016, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

Well, that's disappointing. It seems that JPG is actually cropped but RAW not. So that does nothing for file size or burst rate. I don't see much point, apart from allowing you to compose in 1:1 initially if that is going to be your final format.

Which is why maybe Ricoh deleted 1:1 crop for the initial production release.

09-29-2016, 07:58 AM	#1
johnkrumm Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Duluth, MN Posts: 141	1:1 behavior I tried out this new feature and like it, but once it's set, that's it, no option to regain the crop even in raw from what I can tell. I shot in both PEF and DNG, opened in Lightroom and DCU 5, and both displayed the 1:1 file as shot. With my EM1 I think believe I have the option to revert to the full aspect raw. Seems like the Pentax files are communicating in a different way, even if the raw data is still there.

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09-29-2016, 08:15 AM	#2
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by johnkrumm I tried out this new feature and like it, but once it's set, that's it, no option to regain the crop even in raw from what I can tell. I shot in both PEF and DNG, opened in Lightroom and DCU 5, and both displayed the 1:1 file as shot. With my EM1 I think believe I have the option to revert to the full aspect raw. Seems like the Pentax files are communicating in a different way, even if the raw data is still there. Well, the same behavior as with APS-C crop. It shreds the data but when it comes to file size it looks to be the same for 1:1 and 2:3. Should'nt it be smaller? My Sony RX100 saves the whole RAW so that it can be "uncropped" when in ACR. My take on it would be to get a smaller file size but since it does look like it does not shrink I would prefer it to be "uncroppable"

09-29-2016, 08:24 AM	#3
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	You can't get a full frame resolution RAW from the APS-C crop either so it seems to me it is as designed. If you need Full Frame RAWs shoot it in full frame mode. You can crop it to 1:1 or APS-C or whatever you want in Post Processing. As I recall in the K5 you could set the output format of JPEGs to 1:1. I believe the function was still in the K3 just not shown in the user manual. The K-1 may have a similar function. You won't get the crop lines in the viewfinder though.

09-29-2016, 08:34 AM	#4
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,122	What are the file sizes for RAW images of the same scene captured in 1:1 vs. full crop modes? I'd think that Ricoh would either not read the superfluous data off the sensor or dump it early in the processing chain in order to maximize frame rate, buffer depth, and images per GB. That's how they are handling APS-C crop mode.

09-29-2016, 08:43 AM - 1 Like	#5
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	changing the format is a click of a dial away, so you could always compose in 1:1 then shoot in FF and post process in 1:1

09-29-2016, 09:21 AM	#6
Unregistered User Guest	The file sizes are as follows: RAW FF 41385 kB, 1:1 41041 kB, Crop: 20325 kB JPG FF 12386 kB, 1:1 8880 kB, Crop: 5348 kB

09-29-2016, 09:41 AM	#7
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	It seem as if the 1:1 actually is a normal uncropped 36MP raw file after all, with some parameters attached. If a open a 1:1 crop in lightroom it displays as a 1:1 crop but takes up HD space as a normal full frame. But if I open the same file in rawtherapee it displays as a normal uncropped full frame. I guess it works, but I would have preferred that a cropped shot stayed cropped.

09-29-2016, 09:57 AM - 1 Like	#8
Unregistered User Guest	You can get it all back in DCU aswell but the cropping feature in that program drives me bonkers. How do I confirm my crop? No idea... What does the different buttons do? No idea because there are no tool tips... (Stopped using tobacco 10 days ago so my fuse is kind of short these days...)

09-29-2016, 10:03 AM - 1 Like	#9
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Also note that there are a "new" (since 2016 09 07) DCU version 5.6.2 that fixes some problem with the crop function.

09-29-2016, 10:34 AM	#10
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by Gimbal Also note that there are a "new" (since 2016 09 07) DCU version 5.6.2 that fixes some problem with the crop function. I installed that one right now but can not see any difference...

09-29-2016, 01:02 PM	#11
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 The file sizes are as follows: RAW FF 41385 kB, 1:1 41041 kB, Crop: 20325 kB JPG FF 12386 kB, 1:1 8880 kB, Crop: 5348 kB Well, that's disappointing. It seems that JPG is actually cropped but RAW not. So that does nothing for file size or burst rate. I don't see much point, apart from allowing you to compose in 1:1 initially if that is going to be your final format.

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09-29-2016, 01:07 PM	#12
Unregistered User Guest	I do find it very convenient to be able to see the final crop in the OVF or LV.

09-29-2016, 01:49 PM	#13
npc Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 313	Sensors are not normally optimised to read a random rectangle area but just full size and APS-C, so most probably it will be much slower to save a true 1:1 "raw" file rather than just dump the complete readout and only write the crop factor in the header.

09-29-2016, 02:19 PM	#14
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	Nikon does real crop with the RAW file and file size changes as well. This in 5:4 mode. That did not slow it down. I remember Canon 1ds3 had all kinds of crops but they worked like 1:1 with Pentax.

09-29-2016, 02:19 PM	#15
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman Well, that's disappointing. It seems that JPG is actually cropped but RAW not. So that does nothing for file size or burst rate. I don't see much point, apart from allowing you to compose in 1:1 initially if that is going to be your final format. Which is why maybe Ricoh deleted 1:1 crop for the initial production release.