K-1 trouble: random double exposures

**cdd29** · 11-15-2016, 06:59 AM

I need to check the camera, but if it were in multi-exposure mode, wouldn't the double imaging/ghosting be consistent? This was random. I got the camera out this morning before going to work and shot about 30 shots of the sunrise, no ghosting or 2x exposures.

BrianR · 11-15-2016, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by cdd29

I need to check the camera, but if it were in multi-exposure mode, wouldn't the double imaging/ghosting be consistent? This was random.

It should be consistent, yes. Are you sure you weren't changing the drive mode when this was happening as the OP was?

You should also check the exif of the affected photos to see what drive mode is reported. Apparently not all exif readers pick this up, but exiftool and photome both detect multi-exposure mode for my k5iis. I'd be happy to check if they correctly pick up a multi-exposure from a k1 if anyone wants to post a straight out of camera sample (jpeg or raw, or both

).

**cdd29** · 11-15-2016, 08:36 AM

First, guess I should apologize as I didn't mean to hijack the thread and would happily start my own if requested. Here is a screen grab of one of my affected images. Here, the first doubled image is vertical. Some images double horizontally. These are just quick screen grabs as the jpegs are too large to attach.

BrianR · 11-15-2016, 08:45 AM

Could share the original file of one of those so we can peak at the exif? Dropbox, google drive, etc?

They look consistent with a typical multiexposure, with camera movement between frames.

**cdd29** · 11-15-2016, 08:52 AM

IMGP0123.JPG - Google Drive

BrianR · 11-15-2016, 10:28 AM

Thanks! Has that file been handled by any program at all or is it straight out of the camera? The "Maker Notes" section of the metadata seems to have been stripped?

I checked a .DNG from the k-1 review on PentaxForums, and I have found that ExifTool seems to have no problem reading the entries relating to multi exposure (it's under the tags "DriveMode" and also "MultipleExposureSet"). PhotoMe can't seem to find them though.

**cdd29** · 11-15-2016, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by BrianR

Thanks! Has that file been handled by any program at all or is it straight out of the camera? The "Maker Notes" section of the metadata seems to have been stripped?

I checked a .DNG from the k-1 review on PentaxForums, and I have found that ExifTool seems to have no problem reading the entries relating to multi exposure (it's under the tags "DriveMode" and also "MultipleExposureSet"). PhotoMe can't seem to find them though.

Yeah, that is straight from the camera & no editing. as far as the 'maker data', if you're referring to where you can put your own copyright info, I haven't entered that in the camera yet.

BrianR · 11-15-2016, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by cdd29

Yeah, that is straight from the camera & no editing. as far as the 'maker data', if you're referring to where you can put your own copyright info, I haven't entered that in the camera yet.

Interesting! "MakerNotes" is an area manufacturers can use for added information. There's no standard for how these specific bits are encoded so I understand it can get borked easily and rarely survives being handled by a third party program. Since this was straight out of camera, it would seem the K-1 doesn't bother with a bunch of metadata if you shoot in jpeg, or it records it in a way exif editors can't read yet for some reason (odd since exiftool seems to handle it just fine from a K-1 raw file).

I have nothing else to suggest, unless you happened to be shooting raw+jpeg and have the raw file available. Sorry and best of luck diagnosing your problem!

**cdd29** · 11-15-2016, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by BrianR

Interesting! "MakerNotes" is an area manufacturers can use for added information. There's no standard for how these specific bits are encoded so I understand it can get borked easily and rarely survives being handled by a third party program. Since this was straight out of camera, it would seem the K-1 doesn't bother with a bunch of metadata if you shoot in jpeg, or it records it in a way exif editors can't read yet for some reason (odd since exiftool seems to handle it just fine from a K-1 raw file).

I have nothing else to suggest, unless you happened to be shooting raw+jpeg and have the raw file available. Sorry and best of luck diagnosing your problem!

I can upload the raw & paste the link when I get home from work.

---------- Post added 11-15-16 at 01:58 PM ----------

Here's the raw file link:
IMGP0123.DNG - Google Drive

BrianR · 11-17-2016, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by cdd29

I can upload the raw & paste the link when I get home from work.

---------- Post added 11-15-16 at 01:58 PM ----------

Here's the raw file link:
IMGP0123.DNG - Google Drive

Short version: I can't find an Exif reader that can decode the relevant part of the K-1's files

. I should have suggested from the start that the camera should be able to correctly detect if the file is a multi-exposure or not (put it back on an sdcard and stick in the camera).

Longer version:

ExifTool shows:

Tag Name	Value
DriveMode	Single-frame; No Timer; Shutter Button; Unknown (2)

The "Unknown (2)" is where it would usually read "Single Exposure" or "Multi-Exposure" or "Video" or various HDR settings, and this can be read just fine for files out of my k5iis. The values that get stored here are at Pentax Tags (search for "DriveMode, and it's the stuff under [value 3]). The numerical value "2" your file has here isn't on this table, so I'm going to guess Pentax has changed their "MakerNotes" to allow more options but none of the exif reading programs have been updated to reflect the new version

. This would make sense as the k3 & k1 seem to treat multiexposure options a little differently than the k5 series.

MJKoski · 11-17-2016, 07:24 AM

There are certain cases when multiexposure mode can be accidentally activated. One pothole happens like this:

1. Set camera to multiexposure mode, more than one exposure
2. Take one exposure
3. Switch off camera
4. Switch on camera
5. Change to normal exposure mode, single shooting etc.
6. Take one exposure
7. Rip off the battery without turning off camera first
8. Re-insert battery and turn on camera
result: exposure mode will be reverted back to last known turn-off state which is multiexposure

Replace 7. with any action which crashes the camera software.

**cdd29** · 12-22-2016, 06:48 AM

I updated the firmware and it hasn't done it since. I'm declaring victory and moving on

**Erictator** · 05-20-2017, 02:00 PM

For what it is worth. I'll add to this thread that I ruined about 50 of the first shots today....multi exposed, all in a row. Augh!!!

No idea how I did it... but I know I must have. I switched drive modes from single to high, then back to low speed because the buffer was filling too fast. Somewhere in that fiddling, I must have bumped the multiexposure button (not even sure where it is, I've never used it, but I'm gonna look!) I think the slow buffer saved my butt, and when I switched it back go low speed drive mode, I must have disengaged multiexposure.

One of my problems could be the way I carry between shots, I can bump the four way with my pinky knucle at times when I am using my camera strap as a wrist strap wound around my wrist a few times for walking around. Grumble grumble... I hate it when I shoot myself in the foot, no one else to blame. Grrrr

The funny thing is, I remember briefly chimping some shots to just verify exposure was in the ballpark, and I didnt have my glasses on and look at details and somehow missed it. I shoot raw plus jpg, and both are the same. Bummer,

Eric

**jbinpg** · 05-21-2017, 01:45 PM

A good idea for new K-1 users is to familiarize yourself with its Lock function. Once enabled, it will prevent changes to various settings. The lockable parameters are selectable from one of the menus. This has been one of the K-1's most used features for me.

**Bob 256** · 05-23-2017, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by jbinpg

A good idea for new K-1 users is to familiarize yourself with its Lock function. Once enabled, it will prevent changes to various settings. The lockable parameters are selectable from one of the menus. This has been one of the K-1's most used features for me.

Ditto to that!!

I was out on my first outing with my new K-1, and had it in a plastic bag (to protect the lens from water spray at a falls). I must have accidentally bumped the multi-function button while it was in the bag, because when I took it out, I would press the shutter button and nothing would happen. I panicked and started pressing buttons that I wasn't familiar with which didn't fix the problem so I switched to my old film camera for the remaining shots giving up on my K-1 since I thought it had quit functioning. Afterward, I discovered that I had put it in shutter delay mode and it was waiting 12 seconds before firing the shutter AFTER I pressed the shutter release (and I didn't notice the shutter tripping those 12 seconds later) - had a lot of strange exposures on the SD card. I now have it in autofocus positioning mode so hitting any of the buttons will re-position the autofocus area but not bump it into multi-shot or timer mode (lock would be even better). Lessons learned.

11-15-2016, 08:19 AM	#17
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Originally posted by cdd29 I need to check the camera, but if it were in multi-exposure mode, wouldn't the double imaging/ghosting be consistent? This was random. It should be consistent, yes. Are you sure you weren't changing the drive mode when this was happening as the OP was? You should also check the exif of the affected photos to see what drive mode is reported. Apparently not all exif readers pick this up, but exiftool and photome both detect multi-exposure mode for my k5iis. I'd be happy to check if they correctly pick up a multi-exposure from a k1 if anyone wants to post a straight out of camera sample (jpeg or raw, or both).

11-15-2016, 08:36 AM	#18
cdd29 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Southern Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 961	First, guess I should apologize as I didn't mean to hijack the thread and would happily start my own if requested. Here is a screen grab of one of my affected images. Here, the first doubled image is vertical. Some images double horizontally. These are just quick screen grabs as the jpegs are too large to attach. Attached Images

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11-15-2016, 06:59 AM	#16
cdd29 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Southern Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 961	I need to check the camera, but if it were in multi-exposure mode, wouldn't the double imaging/ghosting be consistent? This was random. I got the camera out this morning before going to work and shot about 30 shots of the sunrise, no ghosting or 2x exposures.

11-15-2016, 08:45 AM	#19
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Could share the original file of one of those so we can peak at the exif? Dropbox, google drive, etc? They look consistent with a typical multiexposure, with camera movement between frames.

11-15-2016, 08:52 AM	#20
cdd29 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Southern Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 961	IMGP0123.JPG - Google Drive

11-15-2016, 10:28 AM	#21
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Thanks! Has that file been handled by any program at all or is it straight out of the camera? The "Maker Notes" section of the metadata seems to have been stripped? I checked a .DNG from the k-1 review on PentaxForums, and I have found that ExifTool seems to have no problem reading the entries relating to multi exposure (it's under the tags "DriveMode" and also "MultipleExposureSet"). PhotoMe can't seem to find them though.

11-15-2016, 11:11 AM	#22
cdd29 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Southern Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 961	Originally posted by BrianR Thanks! Has that file been handled by any program at all or is it straight out of the camera? The "Maker Notes" section of the metadata seems to have been stripped? I checked a .DNG from the k-1 review on PentaxForums, and I have found that ExifTool seems to have no problem reading the entries relating to multi exposure (it's under the tags "DriveMode" and also "MultipleExposureSet"). PhotoMe can't seem to find them though. Yeah, that is straight from the camera & no editing. as far as the 'maker data', if you're referring to where you can put your own copyright info, I haven't entered that in the camera yet.

11-15-2016, 11:54 AM	#23
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Originally posted by cdd29 Yeah, that is straight from the camera & no editing. as far as the 'maker data', if you're referring to where you can put your own copyright info, I haven't entered that in the camera yet. Interesting! "MakerNotes" is an area manufacturers can use for added information. There's no standard for how these specific bits are encoded so I understand it can get borked easily and rarely survives being handled by a third party program. Since this was straight out of camera, it would seem the K-1 doesn't bother with a bunch of metadata if you shoot in jpeg, or it records it in a way exif editors can't read yet for some reason (odd since exiftool seems to handle it just fine from a K-1 raw file). I have nothing else to suggest, unless you happened to be shooting raw+jpeg and have the raw file available. Sorry and best of luck diagnosing your problem!

11-15-2016, 01:06 PM	#24
cdd29 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Southern Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 961	Originally posted by BrianR Interesting! "MakerNotes" is an area manufacturers can use for added information. There's no standard for how these specific bits are encoded so I understand it can get borked easily and rarely survives being handled by a third party program. Since this was straight out of camera, it would seem the K-1 doesn't bother with a bunch of metadata if you shoot in jpeg, or it records it in a way exif editors can't read yet for some reason (odd since exiftool seems to handle it just fine from a K-1 raw file). I have nothing else to suggest, unless you happened to be shooting raw+jpeg and have the raw file available. Sorry and best of luck diagnosing your problem! I can upload the raw & paste the link when I get home from work. ---------- Post added 11-15-16 at 01:58 PM ---------- Here's the raw file link: IMGP0123.DNG - Google Drive

11-17-2016, 07:24 AM	#26
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	There are certain cases when multiexposure mode can be accidentally activated. One pothole happens like this: 1. Set camera to multiexposure mode, more than one exposure 2. Take one exposure 3. Switch off camera 4. Switch on camera 5. Change to normal exposure mode, single shooting etc. 6. Take one exposure 7. Rip off the battery without turning off camera first 8. Re-insert battery and turn on camera result: exposure mode will be reverted back to last known turn-off state which is multiexposure Replace 7. with any action which crashes the camera software.

12-22-2016, 06:48 AM	#27
cdd29 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Southern Indiana Photos: Gallery Posts: 961	I updated the firmware and it hasn't done it since. I'm declaring victory and moving on

05-20-2017, 02:00 PM	#28
Erictator Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	For what it is worth. I'll add to this thread that I ruined about 50 of the first shots today....multi exposed, all in a row. Augh!!! No idea how I did it... but I know I must have. I switched drive modes from single to high, then back to low speed because the buffer was filling too fast. Somewhere in that fiddling, I must have bumped the multiexposure button (not even sure where it is, I've never used it, but I'm gonna look!) I think the slow buffer saved my butt, and when I switched it back go low speed drive mode, I must have disengaged multiexposure. One of my problems could be the way I carry between shots, I can bump the four way with my pinky knucle at times when I am using my camera strap as a wrist strap wound around my wrist a few times for walking around. Grumble grumble... I hate it when I shoot myself in the foot, no one else to blame. Grrrr The funny thing is, I remember briefly chimping some shots to just verify exposure was in the ballpark, and I didnt have my glasses on and look at details and somehow missed it. I shoot raw plus jpg, and both are the same. Bummer, Eric

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05-21-2017, 01:45 PM	#29
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	A good idea for new K-1 users is to familiarize yourself with its Lock function. Once enabled, it will prevent changes to various settings. The lockable parameters are selectable from one of the menus. This has been one of the K-1's most used features for me.

05-23-2017, 04:15 PM	#30
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by jbinpg A good idea for new K-1 users is to familiarize yourself with its Lock function. Once enabled, it will prevent changes to various settings. The lockable parameters are selectable from one of the menus. This has been one of the K-1's most used features for me. Ditto to that!! I was out on my first outing with my new K-1, and had it in a plastic bag (to protect the lens from water spray at a falls). I must have accidentally bumped the multi-function button while it was in the bag, because when I took it out, I would press the shutter button and nothing would happen. I panicked and started pressing buttons that I wasn't familiar with which didn't fix the problem so I switched to my old film camera for the remaining shots giving up on my K-1 since I thought it had quit functioning. Afterward, I discovered that I had put it in shutter delay mode and it was waiting 12 seconds before firing the shutter AFTER I pressed the shutter release (and I didn't notice the shutter tripping those 12 seconds later) - had a lot of strange exposures on the SD card. I now have it in autofocus positioning mode so hitting any of the buttons will re-position the autofocus area but not bump it into multi-shot or timer mode (lock would be even better). Lessons learned.