[biz-engineer]

Weddings have the most difficult situations for the autofocus, because AFC predictive tracking isn't suited for slow motion and focus lock of AFS isn't working is the subject moves even if only slightly, this combined with low light making AF sensor slower (more integration time needed). So, it's a recurrent topic that comes over and over again on Pentax forum.

For weddings, focus lock should not be used in dark conditions because focus lock under such accuracy condition that is actually counter productive, i.e very good accuracy lock condition of daylight actual ruin accuracy in low light slow motion conditions. In dark conditions and slow motion subject (people always move a bit, including the photographer himself) , the camera AF should not be set to focus priority and the photographer should not be waiting for AF confirm but use back button AF in order that the camera will pre-focus, focus and shot with minimal subject motion between the time of focus and the time the shutter opens. It is not by random that the three major DSLR manufacturer let the user select between focus priority and no focus priority.

[kenspo]

Well..i work under harder conditions then weddings. (I do weddings too), but i can't say i have the same problem. K-1 is in another league then K-3/K-3II. 95% of the time i shoot on M with spot metering and AF-C

[biz-engineer]

Well..i work under harder conditions then weddings. (I do weddings too), but i can't say i have the same problem. K-1 is in another league then K-3/K-3II. 95% of the time i shoot on M with spot metering and AF-C

Well, you can always find a limit to everything. I remember when I was a kid, we purchased tools for locking/unlocking screws of tires of 38 tons trucks. So, we used a 3 meters long bar lever, and we put our weight (of two persons) at the end of the bar and we broke the screw, the lever was bent and we also broke the tool. So we went back to the shop with the broken tool and ask for an exchange under warranty, we omitted to say that we used a 3 meters long lever and the sales man was surprised because it was the first time he saw such damaged tool. In the case of this thread, the conditions of shooting are pretty much unknown and subjective, so, it's hard to draw any conclusion.

[noelpolar]

So, to summarise this K-1 focus issue thread..... most likely the ops camera was set to "sleep" after a minute.... someone owes their K-1 an apology! (off course, it could have been a boring wedding... so it may not have been the op or K-1s fault?)

Oh... and biz was turning his truck nuts the wrong way as a kid.....

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Last edited by noelpolar; 10-21-2016 at 03:46 AM.

[Qwntm]

Well, you can always find a limit to everything. I remember when I was a kid, we purchased tools for locking/unlocking screws of tires of 38 tons trucks. So, we used a 3 meters long bar lever, and we put our weight (of two persons) at the end of the bar and we broke the screw, the lever was bent and we also broke the tool. So we went back to the shop with the broken tool and ask for an exchange under warranty, we omitted to say that we used a 3 meters long lever and the sales man was surprised because it was the first time he saw such damaged tool. In the case of this thread, the conditions of shooting are pretty much unknown and subjective, so, it's hard to draw any conclusion.

The conditions are unknown and subjective to everyone else in this thread... But having shot weddings professionally since 1985, and having used various cameras and systems from Hasselblads to Canons to Nikons, etc. I can tell you the performance (or lack thereof) of the K1 under these conditions was surprising, and why I started the thread.


Most modern cameras I have used have nailed focus at about 10 feet at 35mm (equal) FL, with the bride coming down the isle in AF-s and some variation of center spot or group. It has been RARE for me to smash down the button and have the camera just gag as the couples come towards me and pass me by with no shot taken, which is what happened.


Ironically, it's way easier to shoot these shots in MF zone focused to 10 feet and F8. Which is what we did with film in the Hasselblads!

---------- Post added 10-23-16 at 09:32 PM ----------

So, to summarise this K-1 focus issue thread..... most likely the ops camera was set to "sleep" after a minute.... someone owes their K-1 an apology! (off course, it could have been a boring wedding... so it may not have been the op or K-1s fault?)

Oh... and biz was turning his truck nuts the wrong way as a kid.....

ALL K-1's are set to 1 minute sleep by default from the factory. So is the K3II, and K5IIs and neither of those cameras crap the bed upon waking up. (i.e. they wake up and focus fast enough to not miss the action.)


I'm not sure there is any "fault" established yet. It could have also been the weird shop lights at the venue. FL? LED? Who knows.


I've shot enough weddings to know it aint my fault, though.

[Winder]

But having shot weddings professionally since 1985, and having used various cameras and systems from Hasselblads to Canons to Nikons, etc. I can tell you the performance (or lack thereof) of the K1 under these conditions was surprising, and why I started the thread.

Most of the people here only have significant experience with Pentax cameras, so for them the K-1 is a big step forward. AF is the weakness of the K-1, but you need to change all the default settings to get decent performance. My only real complaint about the K-1 has been AF-C performance and for people who use back button AF, AF-C is what I stay on 95% of the time. The AF Hold feature is always turned off. Center point AF seems to be the fastest. 1st Frame Action in AF-C is set to focus priority. Action in AF-C is set to Focus Priority. The default has them set to Auto. Some times I will use the 9 point area AF is the light is good and I'm at F/5.6 or where DoF is not an issue. Usually I'm shooting wide open to get as fast of a shutter speed as possible and keep ISO down. I shot with the Canon 5D for many years and the 5DII has the same AF. By changing the settings in camera I have found the K-1 to be just as good and maybe a little better as the those two cameras. Now obviously the 5DIII and 5DIV are faster and more accurate, and the K-1 is a generation or two behind Canon and Nikon, but it is more than capable of being a wedding workhorse. Ricoh's factory default "Auto" settings are awful. Like the factory JPEG defaults.... just very poor.

[MJKoski]

Price of K-1 is too low for everything to work properly. It is kind of a dubious concept. You get some candies like Pixel-Stiff (hard to use IRL), Astro-Tracer (UWA fail) and clunky SR (clickety clack). White dots & black bars, aged AF, semi-modern lens selection...

In the very end, it is Nikon D800E body (with year 2012 performance) in different shell and outdated AF. Realistic price for it should be 1500$ new (used D800E bodies here).

But that aside, I tried AF with 15-30 yesterday and it managed to hit a static tree (no, it was not jumping and running sideways) which I shot from car window when passing by.

[rawr]

Price of K-1 is too low for everything to work properly.

White dots & black bars, aged AF, semi-modern lens selection...

So much FUD in one post. Must be a new record, even for PentaxForums.

[MJKoski]

Oh yeah, please explain how they are not accurate? Having used those Nikons for quite a long time I cannot find anything K-1 does better than D800E did in 2012 when it comes to basic photography related features. PS, AT and tilt screen are extra features, not basic functionality.

I have no explanation for K-1 price compared to the competition. What is it exactly if not selling yesterday performance right now?

[normhead]

How are you not accurate is that the 5 year old D800 type is still being sold, listed here in Canada at $3999 on sale. The K-1 is $2599. The D810 $1400 more for less features, This is their current technology, what they sell today. The fact that it's 5 years old makes no difference if it's all they' got. So you completely mis-represent the situation. Pentax didn't do better, than a D810 in IQ, but Nikon hasn't either. Meanwhile Nikon is flogging the D810, essentially the same camera lacking quite a few useful features for more money.

Right now, you can buy the K-1 cheaper and get the same IQ, better with Pixel Shift.

As for your distinction between basic functionality and extra-features, that's in your head. Internal light meters, AF, multiple focus points and tracking AF are all extra features by 1965 standards.

I could still shoot with my SV and hand held light meter. The fact that you draw some imaginary line in the sand where you get to decide what's important and what's not, no one else has to buy into that. The question for me is what do I use all the time.

Pixel shift taken with the aid of the tilting back-screen and live view, I'm sorry to have to explain it to you (because it's so obvious) but, functionality is functionality. There is no magic line where one function becomes a "basic" and one becomes a feature, you just made that up. Basic is a sensor, a shutter, and a lens with an aperture ring mounted on a light proof box.



They are only extra features if you don't have them. For the rest of us, they became essential pretty quick.

At this point I'm asking myself, how can Nikon be so dumb as to offer essentially the same camera with less features for $1400 more. That camera should be seriously discounted by this time... oh wait, they had to pay for all the cameras they had to replace after the sensor stain issue. And they are charging their new customers, to make up for the garbage they sold their old customers, much of which they had to repair or replace. That seems fair.

"We were really dumb so now we have to charge you more." It's hard to comprehend how there can be people buying into that.

[MJKoski]

Uhm, I mentioned D800E, not D810 which is well refined and updated model from D800x level. D800E about equals K-1 in performance. D810 is ahead of that with its ISO64 for one key feature. Extra features like PS have their uses but more often than not they fail in real life.

I write these notes because I have experience of a huge amount of different DSLR and MILC models from the last 7 years or so. All small formats included, m4/3, APS-C and FF. I have found K-1 selling price very weird reflecting on its feature set and what it tries to accomplish.

Nikon price is higher for D810 (their current hi-MP model) but as a customer I get: Local service and support with fast turnarounds (3-4 days) AND bog standard workhorse which just works. Has not been so with K-1. My gear has spent more time in service than in my bag.

[mohb]

it seems unusual that nobody else has encountered such tremendous difficulties with the K1 ( why would a professional photographer take a new camera and not test it out before the bride sails past his non focusing camera??)

[normhead]

Uhm, I mentioned D800E, not D810 which is well refined and updated model from D800x level. D800E about equals K-1 in performance. D810 is ahead of that with its ISO64 for one key feature. Extra features like PS have their uses but more often than not they fail in real life.

I write these notes because I have experience of a huge amount of different DSLR and MILC models from the last 7 years or so. All small formats included, m4/3, APS-C and FF. I have found K-1 selling price very weird reflecting on its feature set and what it tries to accomplish.

Nikon price is higher for D810 (their current hi-MP model) but as a customer I get: Local service and support with fast turnarounds (3-4 days) AND bog standard workhorse which just works. Has not been so with K-1. My gear has spent more time in service than in my bag.

That's got to be frustrating. I'd also question the a D810 is better than a K-1, DxO list the D810 at 97 points and the K-1 at 96. The general consensus is that you need about 5 points difference to notice it. So, I find your comments interesting , but not entirely convincing.

About your K-1, however, it's only a few months old? What's going on there? Did you buy one and it immediately needed service? I have had no Pentax equipment need service, unless as a result of a drop, in over 10 years of using Pentax DSLRs, so, I'm a little mystified with that one. As for the extra 64 ISO advantage... DxO rates the D810 at 14.8 for dynamic range (their landscape score), and the K-1 at 14.6. Usually lower ISO shows up in extended Dynamic Range, if it doesn't produce extended dynamic range it's pretty much a useless feature.) I'd be amazed if you can come up with a set of images that show that .2 increase in DR was an advantage.

Extra features like PS have their uses but more often than not they fail in real life.

I posted the picture showing how I use it, so you wouldn't say stuff like that. Apparently the tactic didn't work.

It's real, it can provide an advantage. We have the images to prove it. And the only reason the D810 was better than the Pentax in DR would be DxO doesn't include PS in their analysis.

You seem like a guy with a lot of knowledge, I'm just not sure you're giving Pentax a fighting chance here.

@MJKoski

It is obvious that Pentax has been a disappointment for you, and Pentax K-1 and the new FF-lenses in particular.

For me, and many others coming from Pentax APS-C cameras, the FF has been a new exciting experience when it comes to improvements in all parts of the spectrum.

To say that the K-1 is less than the D810 is simply not correct when it comes to all aspects except the AF performance. When it comes to the AF, a skilled Pentaxian has pretty much an equal chance to get the perfect shot as the Nikon shooter next to him. If new to Pentax, used to Canikon, well then there will be a learning curve. ASAP I will borrow a D500, a D5 and a D810 and some wildlife lenses to try them out. Hopefully sometime during this winter. I will be nice to see for myself what all the fuss is about.

AF in dark places I found to equal or surpass the K-3.

When it comes to lens selection. Well, there is more lenses today than before. Many specialty lenses are missing but for landscape, portrait and partly Wildlife I think we are on quite solid ground.

[MJKoski]

Well this is wrong thread, sorry about that but my K-1 was plagued by the white dot problem, was once in the service and now my dealer does not even know where the body is currently. No answers from Sweden. I have a loaner but I do not dare pull all stunts with it I would like to. Too much hassle if I manage to screw up the loaner. And this is my analysis that for price so low, something has to give. PS works so-so with Adobe products, AT calibration is a hit or miss, QC seems to be mediocre. I would have paid D810 price happily for a working product which does things as advertised.