Is the K-1 good for a beginner?

redcat · 11-12-2016, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by VoiceOfReason

Would you rather work on a project car with a complete set of tools such as found in a dealership including all specialty tools, a set of all your basic ones from a reputable company, or 40 dollar wrench and socket set from a no name company made in China? Obviously, if you can afford it option 1 would be by far the best. You could learn the tools well and get the job done better and more quickly with those. option 2 would still get the job done, but wouldn't be as nice and it make take more work to get what you want done. Option 3, yeah, don't even go there. I'd put the K1 as option 1, the current and previous generation of APSC stuff as option 2, and then those who say get a 10+ year old camera body as option 3.

Totally agree with this voice of reason !!! Better begin with the best tool you can afford, if someone ask me if they should buy a 5+ years computer as their first or the latest computer they can afford, I'd say "go for the best you can afford" without a second thought

With the best tool, you will focus more on the technique/creativity than asking yourself "what if I get a better gear" ^^

**Rondec** · 11-12-2016, 03:43 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by W.j.christy

Though I like the mechanics reference and can really relate I will counter with this. I put myself through college working as an auto mechanic and having done that, the number of tools that I still have and no longer use in my home mechanic work is astounding. If I had started out with all those tools when first started, I would have not only been confused as to what some tools did and how to use them, I would have been out several thousand dollars that I didn't have. Especially since i started out changing oil and not doing anything else.

Photography is in many ways the same. The amount extra you pay for the extra tools and such can lead to an overwhelming experience that doesn't always deliver on the expectations that go with it. As with my beginning in auto mechanics, people typically start with the simplest task and then move up from there. The beginner simply does not need to invest that heavily to get the desired results. The beginner may also decided they have no use for the tools after some time and abandon them all together, which makes the greater investment up front all the more regrettable later.

I can assure you , the work I completed and knowledge I gained with my $75 craftsmen tool kit was made all the more valuable by the fact I didn't have to spend a ton of money up front. The same goes for my initial purchase of the K-30 and subsequent upgrade to the K-3

I guess the question is how different a K-1 and a K3 really are in terms of learning photography. My impression is that they aren't different at all, except that the K-1 has a better sensor meaning that it is easier to fix exposure problems and take photos in dark areas. Otherwise, they have the same modes on the dial, generate RAW files and both function the same in real world shooting. So, if you could learn photography on a K5 or a K3, you certainly could learn it just as easily on a K-1.

At the same time, I wouldn't spend all (or most) of my budget on a camera body, but would spend at least as much on glass as I did on the body.

mgoblue · 11-16-2016, 10:04 PM

I'd say: The camera body is probably the least important part. The body behind the camera and the lens on the front are the most important parts in that order. Since the OP does not have an unlimited budget I'm with those saying classes or books and lenses. Classes from a skilled photographer will change how you see and teach lots of skills. Lenses shape what you can see.

As to buying the best Now to last 8 years, it won't be the best in 4 years even and it will be much cheaper.

**Alex645** · 11-17-2016, 05:06 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mgoblue

I'd say: The camera body is probably the least important part. The body behind the camera and the lens on the front are the most important parts in that order. Since the OP does not have an unlimited budget I'm with those saying classes or books and lenses. Classes from a skilled photographer will change how you see and teach lots of skills. Lenses shape what you can see.

As to buying the best Now to last 8 years, it won't be the best in 4 years even and it will be much cheaper.

Totally agree, but another way to think about the last sentence quoted as it pertains to cameras, not lenses:

Replace an entry level $500 camera every 4 years for 24 years=$3000
or
Replace a midlevel $650 camera every 6 years for 24 years=$2600
or
Replace a flagship $900 camera every 8 years for 24 years=$2700

One can debate if itʻs better to buy a new entry-level camera vs. a four year old flagship and the merits of used cameras vs. no warranty, etc.

But if Iʻm in it for the long haul, Iʻd rather spend my life with the flagship....even an old one.

BTW: This is my opinion with digital. On many film cameras, I often found the entry level models so simple, there was less to break or fail. The film flagships were for pros who expects to repair, CLA, and replace as a business necessity and expense.

surfar · 11-17-2016, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Alex645

Replace a flagship $900 camera every 8 years for 24 years=$2700

WHERE are these, i'll buy plenty at THAT price!

**Alex645** · 11-17-2016, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by surfar

WHERE are these, i'll buy plenty at THAT price!

The K3II is currently $850 new.

Pentax K-3 II DSLR Camera (Body Only) 16160 B&H Photo Video

Of course when the K3III or K4 is released, it will be over a $1k.

surfar · 11-17-2016, 02:58 PM

OK, I thought you'd say that!...the K70 appeals to me more though with all the features that its got, absolutely outstanding value.

Is the K-1 good for a beginner?

Its good for anyone at any level because it can be used any which way.

johnkrumm · 11-18-2016, 10:46 AM

This is one of those cases where it might be worth renting both bodies and a couple lenses. But honestly any camera can work for a beginner if that beginner wants to learn. It's more fun to have a camera that allows easy manual control. Both do. The K70 has a better selection of lenses right now. The K1 can use those lenses in crop mode.

I have a K1 and Olympus EM1 and the Olympus is in many ways more rounded and better for bugs. It also has automatic focus stacking with a couple lenses. And it's far lighter to carry with a wider selection of really good lenses. My "really good" lenses on the K1 right now are the 31 1.8 and the FA 50 2.8 macro. I don't want to buy the massive zooms, so I'm waiting for the promised primes that will hopefully come.

Dericali · 11-19-2016, 03:14 PM

My first real camera (after a tonne of research) was a K5. In general I liked it, and after 3 years I upgraded to the K1. Since then my photography has improved in leaps and bounds. Of course I make lots of mistakes in terms of photos - missed opportunities and the like - but I think I've also made some mistakes about purchasing paths. For example, buying a $500 lens rather than a $1200 lens, and then realising that the functionality that I really wanted was a higher aperture on the more expensive lens. Here's my 2 cents:

Reasons to buy cheaper camera:

If you're inexperienced, you could have an accident or damage the camera through carelessness. The K1 is a heavy camera. If you're still becoming accustomed to using a camera, a lighter one is less likely to be damaged, and if it is damaged it's a less costly mistake.

No one will notice. Unless you're planning on printing your photos in a large size, or regularly print in a magazine, probably no one will really be able to tell the difference (and even then...). The biggest determinant of quality is of course you and your experience and dedication.

Basic functionality is the same. Plus, a cheaper camera will have less features, meaning you can focus on the basics. The K1 has a whole lot of menu settings and features you don't need, but which may seem overwhelming initially.

It's cheaper.

Reasons to buy the K1:

It's a great camera. Plus it's cool to know you're shooting full frame and not cropped.

You can buy a while bunch of old lenses for very cheap. Manual lenses that will force you to use an aperture ring and manual focus. This could be very good for you to learn some of the basics (or -frustrating as hell). Balance this with one new auto focus lens, probably the 28-105.

Ultimately, I would suggest that if you're not sure, then go for the cheaper option. It may be exactly what you want for a lot less money. Otherwise, if you've got the itch, go for the K1...

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11-12-2016, 03:06 AM	#76
redcat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Paris Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,939	Originally posted by VoiceOfReason Would you rather work on a project car with a complete set of tools such as found in a dealership including all specialty tools, a set of all your basic ones from a reputable company, or 40 dollar wrench and socket set from a no name company made in China? Obviously, if you can afford it option 1 would be by far the best. You could learn the tools well and get the job done better and more quickly with those. option 2 would still get the job done, but wouldn't be as nice and it make take more work to get what you want done. Option 3, yeah, don't even go there. I'd put the K1 as option 1, the current and previous generation of APSC stuff as option 2, and then those who say get a 10+ year old camera body as option 3. Totally agree with this voice of reason !!! Better begin with the best tool you can afford, if someone ask me if they should buy a 5+ years computer as their first or the latest computer they can afford, I'd say "go for the best you can afford" without a second thought With the best tool, you will focus more on the technique/creativity than asking yourself "what if I get a better gear" ^^

11-12-2016, 03:43 AM - 1 Like	#77
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by W.j.christy Though I like the mechanics reference and can really relate I will counter with this. I put myself through college working as an auto mechanic and having done that, the number of tools that I still have and no longer use in my home mechanic work is astounding. If I had started out with all those tools when first started, I would have not only been confused as to what some tools did and how to use them, I would have been out several thousand dollars that I didn't have. Especially since i started out changing oil and not doing anything else. Photography is in many ways the same. The amount extra you pay for the extra tools and such can lead to an overwhelming experience that doesn't always deliver on the expectations that go with it. As with my beginning in auto mechanics, people typically start with the simplest task and then move up from there. The beginner simply does not need to invest that heavily to get the desired results. The beginner may also decided they have no use for the tools after some time and abandon them all together, which makes the greater investment up front all the more regrettable later. I can assure you , the work I completed and knowledge I gained with my $75 craftsmen tool kit was made all the more valuable by the fact I didn't have to spend a ton of money up front. The same goes for my initial purchase of the K-30 and subsequent upgrade to the K-3 I guess the question is how different a K-1 and a K3 really are in terms of learning photography. My impression is that they aren't different at all, except that the K-1 has a better sensor meaning that it is easier to fix exposure problems and take photos in dark areas. Otherwise, they have the same modes on the dial, generate RAW files and both function the same in real world shooting. So, if you could learn photography on a K5 or a K3, you certainly could learn it just as easily on a K-1. At the same time, I wouldn't spend all (or most) of my budget on a camera body, but would spend at least as much on glass as I did on the body.

11-16-2016, 10:04 PM	#78
mgoblue Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: California Posts: 79	I'd say: The camera body is probably the least important part. The body behind the camera and the lens on the front are the most important parts in that order. Since the OP does not have an unlimited budget I'm with those saying classes or books and lenses. Classes from a skilled photographer will change how you see and teach lots of skills. Lenses shape what you can see. As to buying the best Now to last 8 years, it won't be the best in 4 years even and it will be much cheaper.

11-17-2016, 05:06 AM - 1 Like	#79
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,527	Originally posted by mgoblue I'd say: The camera body is probably the least important part. The body behind the camera and the lens on the front are the most important parts in that order. Since the OP does not have an unlimited budget I'm with those saying classes or books and lenses. Classes from a skilled photographer will change how you see and teach lots of skills. Lenses shape what you can see. As to buying the best Now to last 8 years, it won't be the best in 4 years even and it will be much cheaper. Totally agree, but another way to think about the last sentence quoted as it pertains to cameras, not lenses: Replace an entry level $500 camera every 4 years for 24 years=$3000 or Replace a midlevel $650 camera every 6 years for 24 years=$2600 or Replace a flagship $900 camera every 8 years for 24 years=$2700 One can debate if itʻs better to buy a new entry-level camera vs. a four year old flagship and the merits of used cameras vs. no warranty, etc. But if Iʻm in it for the long haul, Iʻd rather spend my life with the flagship....even an old one. BTW: This is my opinion with digital. On many film cameras, I often found the entry level models so simple, there was less to break or fail. The film flagships were for pros who expects to repair, CLA, and replace as a business necessity and expense.

11-17-2016, 02:00 PM	#80
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,145	Originally posted by Alex645 Replace a flagship $900 camera every 8 years for 24 years=$2700 WHERE are these, i'll buy plenty at THAT price!

11-17-2016, 02:16 PM	#81
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,527	Originally posted by surfar WHERE are these, i'll buy plenty at THAT price! The K3II is currently $850 new. Pentax K-3 II DSLR Camera (Body Only) 16160 B&H Photo Video Of course when the K3III or K4 is released, it will be over a $1k.

11-17-2016, 02:58 PM	#82
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,145	OK, I thought you'd say that!...the K70 appeals to me more though with all the features that its got, absolutely outstanding value. Is the K-1 good for a beginner? Its good for anyone at any level because it can be used any which way.

11-18-2016, 10:46 AM	#83
johnkrumm Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Duluth, MN Posts: 141	This is one of those cases where it might be worth renting both bodies and a couple lenses. But honestly any camera can work for a beginner if that beginner wants to learn. It's more fun to have a camera that allows easy manual control. Both do. The K70 has a better selection of lenses right now. The K1 can use those lenses in crop mode. I have a K1 and Olympus EM1 and the Olympus is in many ways more rounded and better for bugs. It also has automatic focus stacking with a couple lenses. And it's far lighter to carry with a wider selection of really good lenses. My "really good" lenses on the K1 right now are the 31 1.8 and the FA 50 2.8 macro. I don't want to buy the massive zooms, so I'm waiting for the promised primes that will hopefully come.

11-19-2016, 03:14 PM	#84
Dericali Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Berlin Posts: 298	My first real camera (after a tonne of research) was a K5. In general I liked it, and after 3 years I upgraded to the K1. Since then my photography has improved in leaps and bounds. Of course I make lots of mistakes in terms of photos - missed opportunities and the like - but I think I've also made some mistakes about purchasing paths. For example, buying a $500 lens rather than a $1200 lens, and then realising that the functionality that I really wanted was a higher aperture on the more expensive lens. Here's my 2 cents: Reasons to buy cheaper camera: If you're inexperienced, you could have an accident or damage the camera through carelessness. The K1 is a heavy camera. If you're still becoming accustomed to using a camera, a lighter one is less likely to be damaged, and if it is damaged it's a less costly mistake. No one will notice. Unless you're planning on printing your photos in a large size, or regularly print in a magazine, probably no one will really be able to tell the difference (and even then...). The biggest determinant of quality is of course you and your experience and dedication. Basic functionality is the same. Plus, a cheaper camera will have less features, meaning you can focus on the basics. The K1 has a whole lot of menu settings and features you don't need, but which may seem overwhelming initially. It's cheaper. Reasons to buy the K1: It's a great camera. Plus it's cool to know you're shooting full frame and not cropped. You can buy a while bunch of old lenses for very cheap. Manual lenses that will force you to use an aperture ring and manual focus. This could be very good for you to learn some of the basics (or -frustrating as hell). Balance this with one new auto focus lens, probably the 28-105. Ultimately, I would suggest that if you're not sure, then go for the cheaper option. It may be exactly what you want for a lot less money. Otherwise, if you've got the itch, go for the K1...