[cyberjunkie]

First of all, let me link my first post about the new K-1, with first impressions and public thanks to the forum member who bought it for me in the USA (saving me time and hassles):

public-thanks-first-impressions-k-1-vintage-optics

Waiting for a PC (Win or Mac) software that would allow to make full use of the K-1 in-camera Wi-Fi, i just tried a cheap IR shutter release, a minuscule thingie bought time ago from China for almost nothing, and NEVER used before today.
IT WORKS!
My new K-1 seems happy to cooperate
Cheap and simple.
Of course you have to setup the camera for IR mode.

To overcome the time-lapse limitation of the K-1, I also bought on Ebay a programmable electric shutter release. Not as cheap as the other one but not expensive at all (price is about 20 euros).
You can find the same item marked in different ways.
Mine is called "YouPro YP-880 N3", compatible with both Canon and Pentax cameras with 2.5mm stereo jack (plus other brands):
http://www.hkyoupro.com/products/show-157.html
Self-timer delay, Exposure time and Delay are up to 100 hours, and it can take up to 399 exposures.
Not so bad...

Anybody out there used the same accessory with the K-1?
I've read of some problems with the latest Pentax bodies, like the K-30. It seems that the problem is more mechanical than electrical, and that the same shutter remotes that worked with early digital bodies still work with newer cameras. Isn't it?

Cheers
P

[stevebrot]

Waiting for a PC (Win or Mac) software that would allow to make full use of the K-1 in-camera Wi-Fi

I am glad you are finding solutions to your remote shutter needs, though I think you will find that Wi-Fi from a PC will not be part of the mix. The Wi-Fi is designed to work with a smart phone or tablet device using the Image Sync software for iOS and Android. This arrangement is typical for Wi-Fi enabled cameras. Your user manual has detailed instructions on how this works (p 88 and following in the English version).


Steve

[cyberjunkie]

I am glad you are finding solutions to your remote shutter needs, though I think you will find that Wi-Fi from a PC will not be part of the mix. The Wi-Fi is designed to work with a smart phone or tablet device using the Image Sync software for iOS and Android. This arrangement is typical for Wi-Fi enabled cameras. Your user manual has detailed instructions on how this works (p 88 and following in the English version).


Steve

I already found out about that.
I was just implying that sooner or later some third party solution (hopefully free, as in community developed software) will make a better use of the Wi-Fi support.
I already tried the Mac version of Image Transmitter 2.20, the Lightroom plugin, and the Android version of Image Sync.
Still quite immature, IMHO.

Paolo

[stevebrot]

I was just implying that sooner or later some third party solution (hopefully free, as in community developed software) will make a better use of the Wi-Fi support.

PC or Mac-based Wi-Fi connection may be possible, but I would not expect expanded functionality or or better performance than what is currently available through the mobile apps.


Steve

[cyberjunkie]

Unfortunately i have to agree with you.
Unless the API are released to the public, very likely we won't see new functions, or a better speed, any time soon.
I don't think it is IMPOSSIBLE, though.
One little example: you can turn off the camera from Image Transmitter, but you can't turn it back on. You have to do it from the camera.
On a much relevant level: why don't allow Image Transmitter to work in Wi-Fi mode? If it can be done with an iPhone or Android app, smaller in size and with a much smaller memory footprint, i can't see why the same functions should not be made available to Win/Mac users too.

I have no intention to get into the issue here and now, i just mention it,
With the release of the K-1, Pentax already did a lot to meet the needs of its loyal customer base.
Ricoh/Pentax could have gone one step further, with a decent mechanical diaphragm simulator (no need for green button with K/M lenses), and releasing a commented source of the firmware of the oldest models.
Some don't even have a Sony sensor, i don't think Pentax would disclose anything really important, at this stage.
In fact, all the major player are copying each other and very, very likely are also reverse engineering the software of the competitors.
Independent developers don't have the resources to do that, but if the firmware of the first generations of digital cameras was made public domain, a lot of interesting functions would be made possible.
For example, i own a K-1, a K-5 II and a K-01 that i actively use, but i also gave my K200D to my wife, and i have a K10D with microprism/split-image screen, that is perfectly usable with old super-fast primes.
I also have a *ist D that still works well with my old TTL flashes, The same ones i've used for macro with my LX
I don't know if we can really ask a japanese company to be so innovative, but i think that it could have been a way (IMHO with no adverse effects) to tell the same loyal customer base the K-1 caters to: we don't forget about you.

cheers
Paolo

[bdery]

What I would like to see is the possibility for the camera to automatically transfer files to a drive on the network (be it a computer or NAS). For the moment the K-1 only acts as a wifi source, I'd like for it to connect to an existing wifi network.

Eye-fi cards do that, and can transfer files to a pre-determined drive. That would be wonderful : get home, power the camera, and have it transfer its file. It shouldn't be that hard.

[stevebrot]

Unless the API are released to the public, very likely we won't see new functions, or a better speed, any time soon.

Even if the API were released, I would not expect more functions or better performance. The interface is served by the camera on an ad hoc network (so much for performance) and it is safe to assume that the API is limited to features currently exposed with the mobile apps.

For the moment the K-1 only acts as a wifi source, I'd like for it to connect to an existing wifi network.

Thanks for putting this explicitly. I was generally aware that Eye-fi allowed automated download, but did not know that they could connect to an existing network. Nikon supports both wired and wireless FTP transfer on the D810, but doing so requires a USB accessory dongle that hangs off the side of the camera. I know, lovely! They have a gasket to help avoid water/dust incursion.


Steve

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Last edited by stevebrot; 11-03-2016 at 11:42 AM.

[peterh337]

In this thread
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/190-pentax-k-1/332181-some-unusual-k1-questions-6.html
you will find a post describing the JSON interface which the K1 presents to a wifi client.

You can test this with any web browser. I have done it with a Samsung S7 phone and a Lenovo WinXP X230 laptop.

Anybody who can do some javascript or even C coding would easily develop a windows executable which presents e.g. the list of files and you can select which ones to download, etc. It would be a few days' work.

It would also be easy enough to develop some app which would interface to the camera over wifi and present the SD cards as network drives, accessible from any machine on the networks that supports windows networking (Samba is the name of a unix/android add which implements windows networking for these OSs). Or which automatically downloads all pics to some PC directory whenever the camera's wifi is detected... I have such an app on my phone (SyncMe).

The more basic problem is that the speed is so very slow. Yesterday I measured 300kbytes/sec so a typical RAW file (about 40MB) tool 2.5 minutes to transfer. Jpegs will be faster but still very slow.

There seems to be no good explanation for this, since modern wifi can do about 10megabytes/sec i.e. 30x faster. Pentax just did a rubbish wifi implementation.

However even with the very slow speed there would be quite a lot of value IMHO in having a sync function from the camera to a directory on one's PC, activates as soon as one walks into one's house and picks up the home wifi. This is what all modern phones can do (SyncMe etc). But the camera cannot ever do this because the wifi is an access point only. To implement such a thing you would need the above mentioned code to be running on some wifi device which connects to the camera, gets the data off it and transfers it to the specified network device / directory. You could run such a bit of code on some old £20 laptop off Ebay...

BTW the K1 wifi is not adhoc; it is the more standard infrastructure wifi. (The old wifi SD cards e.g. eye-fi did adhoc). Android phones/tablets cannot connect to adhoc wifi because the android wifi supplicant code enumerates the detected access points and skips any adhoc ones (some daft google policy) but all my android stuff connects to the K1 fine.

[cyberjunkie]

In this thread
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/190-pentax-k-1/332181-some-unusual-k1-questions-6.html
you will find a post describing the JSON interface which the K1 presents to a wifi client.

You can test this with any web browser. I have done it with a Samsung S7 phone and a Lenovo WinXP X230 laptop.

Anybody who can do some javascript or even C coding would easily develop a windows executable which presents e.g. the list of files and you can select which ones to download, etc. It would be a few days' work.

It would also be easy enough to develop some app which would interface to the camera over wifi and present the SD cards as network drives, accessible from any machine on the networks that supports windows networking (Samba is the name of a unix/android add which implements windows networking for these OSs). Or which automatically downloads all pics to some PC directory whenever the camera's wifi is detected... I have such an app on my phone (SyncMe).

The more basic problem is that the speed is so very slow. Yesterday I measured 300kbytes/sec so a typical RAW file (about 40MB) tool 2.5 minutes to transfer. Jpegs will be faster but still very slow.

There seems to be no good explanation for this, since modern wifi can do about 10megabytes/sec i.e. 30x faster. Pentax just did a rubbish wifi implementation.

Very informative post.
I am led to believe that the ridiculous speed of the WiFi implementation is due to poor firmware.
Any super cheap chinese WiFi chip, the ones sold by the Kg., can have a much, much better throughput, if adequately programmed.
I doubt Ricoh-Pentax developed his own silicon, very likely it's a standard chip. I think that future firmware releases COULD address most of the deficiencies, not so sure they will...
Probably we will see a project like pktether take form in the near future. If the K-1 sells well, one might fall in the hands of the right developer...

P

[stevebrot]

BTW the K1 wifi is not adhoc

you will find a post describing the JSON interface which the K1 presents to a wifi client.

You can test this with any web browser. I have done it with a Samsung S7 phone and a Lenovo WinXP X230 laptop.

Anybody who can do some javascript or even C coding would easily develop a windows executable which presents e.g. the list of files and you can select which ones to download, etc. It would be a few days' work.

Yep...If the connection parameters are known and a wireless network adapter with IP stack is available, writing a client is trivial with many languages...easy peasy. Streaming to the local filesystem or a mapped network drive is also trivial, assuming the other network is available and the computer/device allows two network adapters to be active at the same time. Relaying files through to a NAS would also be possible assuming that the computer was configured as a router. Direct wi-fi from camera to NAS or the cloud would not be possible.

BTW...I used ad hoc in the semantic, not the technical sense (literally, "for the purpose of"). The camera supports a role as host on a dedicated limited network (two addresses) and publishes a JSON API through a built-in Web server. It also provides its own wi-fi access point to that limited network. The conditions for any connections are strictly defined. The limitations as well as strengths of that approach are immediately obvious with generation of even a simple network diagram.

Yes, file transfer is slow. It is my understanding this is a limitation imposed by the central processor's network support along with the realities of a low power radio. Similar issues exist for Bluetooth. The situation may be different for other cameras. I can't say because this sort of functionality is not important to me.


Steve

[stevebrot]

I doubt Ricoh-Pentax developed his own silicon, very likely it's a standard chip.

You are very likely correct. The network stuff is almost assuredly done on the main Milbeaut processor as with the rest of the IO tasks. The wi-fi is probably done with a generic radio chip.

I think that future firmware releases COULD address most of the deficiencies

Only if the hardware supports it. Such is the nature of firmware.


Steve

[peterh337]

I doubt there is a good reason for the transfer speed to be that slow, because the CPU has loads of power, but it's clear there isn't anything we can do about it.

A useful bit of software would be something running on a laptop which has wifi and ethernet (just about all of them) and with enough of a user interface to configure the camera's wifi credentials, the destination share/directory, and the sync criteria (e.g. when initially connected, every hour afterwards).

So you come home and the files appear on your PC, after a while...