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12-01-2016, 11:13 AM   #1
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Weird behavior: image in playback has a filter applied but is normal on download?

Was shooting the other day and somehow got the camera set in a weird display mode: after taking a photo the image displayed for review appeared to have a filter applied to it (color and tone shifted in a weird way: desaturated, shifted to a sickly greenish hue), and the look of the "filter" seemed to shift from image to image. I didn't know what the camera was doing (I check the settings and couldn't find anything changed from my standard) and couldn't get it to stop. I cycled the camera, swapped the cards, etc; nothing fixed it.

When I downloaded the images from the card to Lightroom the thumbnails initially showed the same filtered look, but when I edited them the filter disappeared -- they displayed as normal unfiltered RAW files. Bizarre.

I still couldn't figure out how to change the playback display back. As it happened, I was planning to upgrade the firmware to 1.40 and thought "hm, wonder if that will reset it?" After updating the firmware, no dice: the playback image was still being filtered like before.

I went back to the settings and did a reset. Problem solved. But I want to know how I got in that situation to begin with -- and how to change it -- in case it happens again.

Any ideas?

12-01-2016, 11:22 AM   #2
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Could you have accidentally enabled cross processing in the custom image menu?

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12-01-2016, 11:40 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Could you have accidentally enabled cross processing in the custom image menu?
I'm not sure, but wouldn't that processing have been applied to the DNG when I opened it up in Lightroom? I figured I'd done something like that but when I opened up the files and they looked normal -- not filtered/cross-processed at all.

(Also, where is that setting? One of my only gripes about the K-1 is how easy it is to inadvertently change settings. The 'lock' feature helps but can also be a little annoying.)
12-01-2016, 11:45 AM   #4
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If you shoot raw (dng or pef) the preview thumbnail is different from the raw data. The preview is according to jpeg settings and corrections, while raw is... well, raw.
QuoteOriginally posted by alan_smithee_photos Quote
When I downloaded the images from the card to Lightroom the thumbnails initially showed the same filtered look, but when I edited them the filter disappeared -- they displayed as normal unfiltered RAW files. Bizarre.
This is normal. You probably have some custom Jpeg mode, Digital filter, or cross processing applied. You have to press Info and then check the various functions. It could also be something like WB settings - if the WB gets corrected drastically the photo can look different from shot to shot (AWB or CTE would be the most noticeable in this regard).

12-01-2016, 11:54 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
If you shoot raw (dng or pef) the preview thumbnail is different from the raw data. The preview is according to jpeg settings and corrections, while raw is... well, raw.
This is normal. You probably have some custom Jpeg mode, Digital filter, or cross processing applied. You have to press Info and then check the various functions. It could also be something like WB settings - if the WB gets corrected drastically the photo can look different from shot to shot (AWB or CTE would be the most noticeable in this regard).
Interesting that you could have them out of sync (esp if you're not shooting RAW + JPEG; I was shooting only RAW).

The first thing I looked at was WB; it was set to AWB, which is what I'd been shooting previously without issue.

It's odd to me that you could have two different sets of settings being applied like that. Can't really think of many cases where I would want that to be the standard behavior. I never shoot jpegs so haven't really poked around in any jpeg-specific settings (kind of oblivious to whether they existed, I guess). Still wondering how I could fat-finger my way into doing that. I could see if I tweaked something way down in a submenu but whatever happened would've been from me inadvertently pressing some button(s) on the back during normal shooting. \_(ツ)_/
12-01-2016, 12:10 PM   #6
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Lightroom doesn't respect your jpeg settings in RAW, that is , it doesn't try to recreate them with its own corrections. Is that also true of the Pentax DCU? I'm not sure.
12-01-2016, 12:30 PM   #7
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You unknowingly activated one of the color profile settings which can be toggled on the 4-way menu (I think).

Same thing happened to me with a K-5iis shooting raw. Somehow in the dark I had bumped my camera into B&W for a sunrise timelapse in a remote part of a national park. Walked off to take stills with the K-1, came back distraught that the playback had everything in B&W.

Got it home, and had major relief that the RAW files are still the sensor data, and do not take into account the JPG processing profile that the camera embeds in the RAW file. The DNG file thumbnails will appear with the same filter-processing (in camera playback and in LR thumbnails) until you make adjustments in LR's develop module and save the metadata to files.

But rest easy, your RAW images are unaffected.
12-01-2016, 01:07 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by alan_smithee_photos Quote
I'm not sure, but wouldn't that processing have been applied to the DNG when I opened it up in Lightroom? I figured I'd done something like that but when I opened up the files and they looked normal -- not filtered/cross-processed at all.

(Also, where is that setting? One of my only gripes about the K-1 is how easy it is to inadvertently change settings. The 'lock' feature helps but can also be a little annoying.)
It's just one of the JPEG presets.

I'd look at custom function 20, which swaps the way the 4-way controller works to make it much harder to accidentally change settings.


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12-01-2016, 02:24 PM   #9
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What Adam said ^ ^ ^


QuoteOriginally posted by alan_smithee_photos Quote
When I downloaded the images from the card to Lightroom the thumbnails initially showed the same filtered look, but when I edited them the filter disappeared -- they displayed as normal unfiltered RAW files. Bizarre.
This is expected. Filters apply to in-camera JPEG, in-camera JPEG/TIFF from RAW, RAW conversion using Pentax PDCU software, and the JPEG thumbnail images embedded in the RAW files. Lightroom's default behavior is to display the embedded JPEG initially, with eventual replacement with a preview image drawn from the RAW conversion. That is why it autocorrected on your computer.


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12-01-2016, 02:28 PM   #10
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I'm sure you guys are right. Thx!

Don't get me wrong, I love the K-1 but man it would be *so* nice if you could just wipe all that useless (to me) stuff off the camera and keep it simple, simple, simple. That's another big reason while I still shoot so much film. Filters and whatnot add no value for me and only introduce complexity (mucking up the user experience, etc.).
12-01-2016, 02:35 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by alan_smithee_photos Quote
I'm sure you guys are right. Thx!

Don't get me wrong, I love the K-1 but man it would be *so* nice if you could just wipe all that useless (to me) stuff off the camera and keep it simple, simple, simple. That's another big reason while I still shoot so much film. Filters and whatnot add no value for me and only introduce complexity (mucking up the user experience, etc.).
I'm with you on this one, Alan. Wouldn't it be nice if you could swap such things out of firmware as you wanted (like useless apps on a smart phone) and have the space for something else that you'd actually use.
12-01-2016, 03:59 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by alan_smithee_photos Quote
I'm not sure, but wouldn't that processing have been applied to the DNG when I opened it up in Lightroom?)
RAW is RAW, Alan. A string of numbers.

But to display on any device - for you to even look at it on a viewfinder screen - it has to be turned into a JPEG.

Lightroom applies a default profile before you see it on your computer monitor.

The camera applies your JPEG settings, and even embeds a thumbnail based on them into the RAW image for convenience.

I often shoot portraits with a B&W filter to get the tones right during the shoot. They have of course no effect on the RAW image at processing time.
12-01-2016, 05:20 PM   #13
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Not to be pedantic but a jpeg is just as much "a string of numbers" as a DNG. Obviously, I get the point that a renderable version has to be created for playback -- unless it's a camera that has no preview (like a Leica M-D).

For me, I'd rather look at a histogram than some jpeg approximation of a post processing filter. But again, I'm not knocking anyone's workflow, just saying that this in-camera processing and stuff adds no value for me. I'm sure plenty of other people dig it. Hell, I'd pay a premium to get rid of that stuff (although no a Leica M-D sized premium ).
12-01-2016, 05:29 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by alan_smithee_photos Quote
Not to be pedantic but a jpeg is just as much "a string of numbers" as a DNG. Obviously, I get the point that a renderable version has to be created for playback -- unless it's a camera that has no preview (like a Leica M-D).

For me, I'd rather look at a histogram than some jpeg approximation of a post processing filter. But again, I'm not knocking anyone's workflow, just saying that this in-camera processing and stuff adds no value for me. I'm sure plenty of other people dig it. Hell, I'd pay a premium to get rid of that stuff (although no a Leica M-D sized premium ).
Alan, the RAW is the direct readings off the sensor.

The JPEG is a manipulated version with a set of assumptions including gamma, colour space and white balance.

So, the RAW numbers are the original data, the JPEG ones are derived quantities.

Honestly, that's two different concepts.

As for the histogram, I think you have a misunderstanding.

What you are seeing is not the RAW data, it's the result of the JPEG with a reduced bit count, so it is potentially misleading especially as far as clipping at either end is concerned.

Love all your work, BTW - I nearly bought a Voigtlander 58mm because of you!

Last edited by clackers; 12-01-2016 at 05:37 PM.
12-01-2016, 05:39 PM   #15
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Heh, thx!

My comment was more: they're both digital files. The data differs but in the end it's...data. Output, rendering, etc., differ. But it's 1s and 0s.

I am curious about your workflow, though, and how the in-camera stuff you use compares to what you do with RAWs in post.

And bravo on that Nokton. It still has pride of place in my bag!
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