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12-19-2016, 06:42 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by elpolodiablo Quote
Well I do own both K-30 and K-1, and I can tell you K-1 does give you better image quality in general terms(and I have to agree with the discussion above, if you only ever use the image for web purposes, stick with APS-C), but the bulk and weight of the K-1 and accompanying FF glass IMO will NOT enhance but interfere with the joy of taking photo of you new born daughter.
That's why I think the K-70 might be good middle ground. It's an actual upgrade in image quality and other features, without the extra size, weight, cost and other encumbrances of FF.

QuoteOriginally posted by elpolodiablo Quote
Also, instead of buying fast glass I would suggest invest in flashgun and learn how to bounce the light, it will cost you a lot less and improve your shot enormously. A friend of mine welcomed his daughter earlier this year, on one of my visits to their place I happened to have my K-30 and Metz 48 flash with me, after seeing the shoots of his daughter with bounce flash he immediately dropped his plan to buy a 5D Mk III(he's a Canon APSC shooter) and got himself a YongNuo flash kit instead, and after seeing what I can do with Sony RX100Mk1 and bounce flash at the recent Xmas party at his place, he's now saying he might just get a RX100Mk3 and forget about the bulky DSLR kit.
Two excellent suggestions. With the money he would save by keeping the K-30 (or getting a K-70) he could get a nice flashgun AND a serious compact. I probably shoot more with my small m43 cameras/lenses and my advanced compacts such as the Panasonic LX100 than I do with my DSLR these days, and I get a lot more enjoyment out of my photography.

12-19-2016, 09:05 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I guess it is safe to assume that you have have limited experience shooting those lenses on 35mm film. The reverence those lenses get is based on their performance on 35mm film and is historic in nature.

Very few lenses are sharp, corner-to-corner on the format for which they were designed. Shooting a FF lens on APS-C allows the center "sweet spot" to fill more of the frame. That is the full extent of the magic and comes with the penalty that the frame requires greater magnification to get the same size final print. As for your M-series lenses on FF, I can assure you that very few M-series primes are a disappointment on the format for which they were designed. The same is true for Pentax/Asahi 24x36 (FF) format primes in general. User experience on this site with "film era" FF primes on the K-1 has been uniformly positive.


Steve
Of course I don't have experience with them on 35mm film, otherwise I wouldn't have asked the question. In background, my film SLR was a Minolta camera, and the only lenses I had for it was a fast 50 and a 135. I should also add that all my experiences with it were before I was 20, and admittedly, I was not that great of a photographer. I don't think really learned to understand what I was doing until I had my first dSLR (k10d). At that time, my actual goal was to find a camera that would be able to use my Minolta lenses, but that didn't really exist. I bought into Pentax because they at least accepted their old glass. As a college student, that was appealing.

That out of the way, I do understand that the lenses were designed for full frame, but I am also aware that APS-C is taking the sweet spot of a lens. Of course given the resolution of a K-3 or K-5, that might be awash as there is less room to work.

But, at this point I can't really justify a K-1. With a child at home, I think I'll stick with my K-3. I have to admit that I prefer the lighter kit, and I am not sure carrying a heavier kit will be worth the improved image quality. The K-3 is still a great camera compared to where FF was at a while back, and I suspect that if I stay with APS-C there will still be improvements with their sensors. Of course FF will improve too, but if someone would have told me when I bought the K10d that I would be shooting 6400 ISO today and getting nice prints at 11 x 14, I would have laughed. Not even the occasional 800 speed film gave me that clean of prints. Ultimately, it's all relative.

Last edited by emalvick; 12-19-2016 at 09:20 AM.
12-19-2016, 11:04 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Culture Quote
This. My questions is. When one does a lot in post processing, does it even matter anymore which format is used?
Yes...you can't add in PP what is not there in the original capture. What you can do is subtract or modify.

QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
Norm, I find your comments confirm my personal take on the discussion. For me, the resolution on the K-3 is more than enough
I agree and would really like to see a FF Pentax at 24 Mpx resolution (K-0.75 ?).


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12-19-2016, 01:00 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by bkpix Quote
The best way for you to make an informed decision is to rent a K-1 for a week and try it out.




QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I'd say the same.
Unfortunately for Matt, theres no short term rentals of Pentax.(he comes from a land Downunder,Where Vegemite sandwiches make you chunder!)Sorry, an Aussie joke of lyrics from our national anthem.There are the highway robbery merchants too, rent a K1 for 6 months and you could have bought a K70!


So Matt, I bought my K1 just over 6 months ago.....My main Dslr at that time was the K50 which is quite similar to the K30.The 16mp Pentaxs are very good cameras and great value.The reasons I invested in FF was for its low light capability, it blows away the k50/k-01( and I still own both) and its rated for 300k shots!Also the fact I own many film era lenses that love being on the K1.The 2 lenses you mention will love being on the K1(just ask them).


However, my advice, would be to take your lenses to a camera shop and try them on the K1 and the K70(which is 1/3 the cost).....you may not like the extra weight of the K1?




QuoteOriginally posted by matroxication Quote
I hit a dead end with my K30
That can happen to the K30(and K50s) anytime with the aperture problem.Good luck if you keep it.


Last edited by surfar; 12-19-2016 at 01:30 PM.
12-19-2016, 02:14 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by elpolodiablo Quote
Also, instead of buying fast glass I would suggest invest in flashgun and learn how to bounce the light, it will cost you a lot less and improve your shot enormously.
In the end you gotta do both. I love working with flash, but I'm shooting an outdoor wedding tomorrow, and fast glass will be the name of the day (after the bride and groom!). Same with most night landscapes, and portraiture requires glass that's somewhat fast, unless you're doing environmental portraits.
12-19-2016, 09:46 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
Considering the crop factor for telephoto for me is a non-issue. For normal use, 16 Mpx is way more than enough. 10 is good enough for a magazine cover sized print no matter how closely to examine it. Yes I have and use a 400 + 1.7x on occasion. If I am careful with the 400 (and I need to be just as careful when using it as a 680) I can crop it to 680 equivalent an still retain 24/1.7 = 14+ megapixels.

If I crop a 300mm image to 600mm equivalent, I get 12 Mpx. Still good enough for anything but 1:1 peeping.

What is an change with the switch is that your 28mm lens (assuming it covers the full frame) is now truly a wide angle. Your 24mm on FF has the same field of view as 16mm on APS-C. On my MZ-S my walk around lens was the FA 24-90. On my K10 and now K-3 the walk around lens is 16-50, same field of view as 24-75 on the 36x24mm frame. You will pick up a lot better wide angle shots with the 36mm sensor simply because you a a bit further back, and the distortion at the edges is reduced.
The additional pixel density of the K3 over that of a 36mp camera really is not the envelope I feel is worth chasing. You only gain a slight amount of further cropping ability with the K3 and if used over iso 400 that added density quickly goes out the window.

For me the times that many would think that the pixel density would be beneficial are on the other side of the spectrum I am chasing, a 100% crop for the k3 is not what I am looking for. I would sooner look at where we see the greater IQ and impact to my photography lies and that is using as much of what lenses can project.
12-20-2016, 12:06 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
You only gain a slight amount of further cropping ability with the K3 and if used over iso 400 that added density quickly goes out the window.
I'd back this up. When not using a tripod, or fast lens, ISO often increases beyond 400. The trouble is, in real life photography, given F16 rule, ISO400 is right in the middle of average use cases, that means there is no advantage of the higher resolution sensor in a lot of common shooting cases. I often use the sunny F16 rule because it is an easy way to imagine real lighting conditions and what shutter speeds and iso are need for a given focal length. I know that if I shoot 400mm , I need 1/400 shutter speed and that already require ISO400 at F16 on a full sunny day, if cloudy f8 means ISO1600 already, where crop sensor already lost it's resolution and dynamic range.
12-20-2016, 12:49 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I'd back this up. When not using a tripod, or fast lens, ISO often increases beyond 400. The trouble is, in real life photography, given F16 rule, ISO400 is right in the middle of average use cases, that means there is no advantage of the higher resolution sensor in a lot of common shooting cases. I often use the sunny F16 rule because it is an easy way to imagine real lighting conditions and what shutter speeds and iso are need for a given focal length. I know that if I shoot 400mm , I need 1/400 shutter speed and that already require ISO400 at F16 on a full sunny day, if cloudy f8 means ISO1600 already, where crop sensor already lost it's resolution and dynamic range.
F16 made sense on sunny days before built-in light meters, but I basically never use it off of a tripod. With any off-camera flash work, I'm almost always using ISO 100.

12-20-2016, 03:57 AM   #39
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I guess I don't feel like the added resolution is a big deal. Yes, the K-1 images have a little more detail and you can print a bigger size, but I don't feel like I was maxing out the printing size of the K3 before, so that wasn't particularly necessary. Suffice to say that you can print pretty big with both cameras.

I do think for wildlife, having a crop camera is at the least not much of a disadvantage, as you are often limited in how close you can get (and how long a lens you can afford). If you are cropping to APS-C already, then there certainly is little benefit to using a full frame camera.
12-20-2016, 07:15 AM - 2 Likes   #40
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I touched a bit on the advantages of the K1 on my thread doing a solo bike trip in Perth.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/190-pentax-k-1/333818-going-solo-week-cyc...ing-perth.html


Overall, I think there are quite a few things the K1 does better in a real world context.


1. The "Isolation via shallow DOF look"
Wide FOV while still having that shallow DOF isolative 'look' and at more reasonable working distances, FF certainly gives that more easily




2. 36mp allows one to get away with stuff....
Noise, poor edges, can be effectively 'hidden' simply my the right processing or simply downsampling to 12-16mp which is still plenty for most uses. (and 16mp would be the same as a K30)



Better K1 ISO1600 performance and downsampling, simply means an image that hides most of the 'problems'




3. 36mp can downsample to 16mp and look fantastic.
16mp on the K30.... well it can go 8mp and look fantastic






4. Yes, ISO is certainly better on the K1 (even w/o the 'trickery' of downsampling)





5. Astro tracer is great too




6. Not to mention long exposure is a breeze now with the 'B' mode being able to be set for timings longer than 30s.



7. Pixel Shift is 'for real'


full sized on my Flickr



There are plenty more, but I do think the K1 is a camera that will last a very long time, even if new gadgets and gizmos come out in the near future, because it feature set and performance is rooted on the 'basics' of all that is essential to photographic use in a real world context.
12-22-2016, 04:46 AM   #41
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Thanks everyone for such wonderful tips.

I do have an external flash (Metz 58 AF2) and also Sony RX100 Mark 1. I use Sony RX100 primarily for taking videos and that is the reason I went with Mark 1 even though I bought it only couple of months ago. I like to explore in the macro territory and hence bought Raynox 250 to complement with 18-135mm WR lens. Although the magnification is great, I would require a tripod to support it and am not a big fan of Vignetting either. Hence was considering a dedicated macro lens such as Pentax 100mm 2.8 macro or Tamron 90mm 2.8 macro since they can be hand held and have marked it on my list. They are not cheap.

Weight can be a constraint for me since I felt K30 with Sigma 35. 1.4 art lens slightly heavy. Am wondering how I will be able to handle in case if I decide to go on telephoto lens such as Pentax DA* 300.

If am not going with the camera upgrade, I will definitely go with either Macro or a telephoto lens to complement my kit. Although Pentax K70 and K3ii seems to be a nice option, my mind was not willing for the trade off over K30 unless its a full frame option for some reason. But I will definitely will opt for those options in case if the life of my K30 comes to an end...Touch wood

Regards,
Matt
12-29-2016, 03:53 PM   #42
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I ended up ordering Pentax 100mm WR Macro lens along with couple of B&W filters (Clear and Polarisation) to add to my kit. I also got a 49mm to 43mm step down adapter to fit Raynox 250 to the macro lens. Will explore with this currently and then will explore the camera upgrade once I feel that it is necessary.

Thanks everyone for your support. Now I need to read a lot about Macro photography

Regards,
Matt
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