The K-1's incredible dynamic range !!

wanderer2 · 01-01-2017, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by bvg

What is F-1?

Yes, typo. Either that or some sort of mental slip because of my years of watching F1 racing.

Sorry.

pichur · 01-01-2017, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by automorphism

It's not really blank. It's just that the tonal range is compressed so that different tones are hard to distinguish by your eye displayed on the monitor, and also that in the Raw file there is a much larger range of brightness values per pixel than are even possible to display on a regular 8-bit per colour channel monitor. Expanding the expressed difference between different stored values and using the additional Raw data allows you to make the picture appear more normal.

As a simple analogy, it's like if you used a blue pen to write on a slightly lighter blue paper. There's still a difference, but it's small. Software can detect this difference and lighten the paper whilst keeping the tone of the ink so that the writing is more visible.

Note - in the unaltered picture above you can even improve it without the Raw data, and it could be a fun experiment for you to try. It's just that with the Raw data the improvement is much more drastic.

This is amazing. There is information there that cannot be seen, but the processing software sees it and can "extract" it making the picture usable. Thanks for the explanation, everyone!

peterh337 · 01-03-2017, 02:20 AM

The K3 (had it for 2 years - an outstanding camera with the 16-85) is nowhere near the K1 on low light performance.

I can't offer a stunning case like those posted above but where the K3 started to make just-visible noise at iso 500, the K1 is around iso 2000.

By "visible" I mean visible at 1:1 in say Lightrooom; not visible to a person looking at the whole pic. I do luminance noise reduction in LR as a habit because if you export the image to a say 95% quality jpeg, the resulting jpeg is 2x bigger if there was that very fine noise, even though both images look exactly the same when looked at whole or even with a moderate zoom.

The downside is the size and weight: 1.8kg for the K1+24-70 versus 1.4kg for the K3+16-85 and the difference is size is very noticeable too. IMHO the K1 is right at the very top of what I want to carry around, ever. (Of course those two lenses are different). But I spoke to an old Pentax dealer the other day and his view was that Pentax did this deliberately because that is expected in that market position, together with an all-metal body, etc.

The K1 is worth it though. Went for a little walk in the countryside yesterday and was astounded at how well the TAV mode (which is how I used the K3 too, mostly) works. The AF is also much better than the K3.

PePe · 01-04-2017, 03:31 AM

Originally posted by longbow

My wife and I went to a local wetland area this morning. I took only the K-1 & DFA 24-70 to focus on landscape rather wildlife today. This flock of geese unexpectedly came in for a landing right in front of us, I adjusted the shutter speed up, but didn't realize the camera's iso was set so low and ended up with a severely underexposed image. Ran it through Lightroom anyway to see what I could do to save it. Raised exposure up +4.5, made a couple other small adjustments and even cropped it some, was very surprised by the outcome.

The first photo is before post process, the second is after. Shot at 70mm, 400iso, 1/125 sec & f8

This is exactly the thing that continues to impress me! Still after 8 months with the K-1.
I have a couple of similar cases where seemingly hopeless shots have turned out to be quite usable.

FF does make a difference in this respect!

Tan68 · 01-04-2017, 04:26 AM - **1 Like**

When I bought K-5 after having the K-20, I considered the K-5 to have a built-in graduated ND. With the K-5, I don't use grad-ND, expose for highlights, and adjust the image later. I have almost never been disappointed although it is sometimes critical to expose only as dark as necessary to preserve highlights and no more...

With K-1, I consider the camera has a built-in zoom.. in that I can either use a 35mm lens at FF or, if I need to, crop up to a ~50mm lens and still have the same capability of my K-5. The K-1 gives me more flexibility with my typical wide + short tele lens kit.

**isb.deep** · 01-05-2017, 07:03 PM - **3 Likes**

I can certainly put in another vote for the amazing dynamic range and latitude for shadow recovery from the K-1. I couldn't have imagined getting the same results from an APS-c body.

ozturert · 01-12-2017, 04:34 AM

K1 has excellent DR, very similar to D810. But then you should not need that much recovery anyway

Sometimes I play with K1 to recover shadows like the examples you guys are giving, still I don't remember me taking such a badly underexposed photo in my life

texandrews · 01-12-2017, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by ozturert

....still I don't remember me taking such a badly underexposed photo in my life

Ha! You're young, then, or else truly brilliant and we bow before you!

ozturert · 01-12-2017, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by texandrews

Ha! You're young, then, or else truly brilliant and we bow before you!

So you have underexposed some of your shots by 4-5 stops? Then I'll bow before you

1 stop is OK, maybe I've had to lift shadows by 2-3 stops at most, other than that no sane person needs +4-5 EV post-correction.

**lithedreamer** · 01-12-2017, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by ozturert

So you have underexposed some of your shots by 4-5 stops? Then I'll bow before you

1 stop is OK, maybe I've had to lift shadows by 2-3 stops at most, other than that no sane person needs +4-5 EV post-correction.

One photo, as I posted earlier in this thread. I went from shooting manual flash for about an hour to an ambient light portrait and forgot to switch to aperture priority or at least double check my light meter.

DrBop · 01-12-2017, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by isb.deep

I can certainly put in another vote for the amazing dynamic range and latitude for shadow recovery from the K-1. I couldn't have imagined getting the same results from an APS-c body.

This is very impressive! Thanks for sharing. Wish I could say I have never underexposed so considerably. I've inadvertently hit the wrong profile, dialed in (or started with) the wrong ISO, and committed myriad other errors when shooting casually or hurriedly (such as at a child's birthday party).

So good to know that all that dynamic richness is in there for recapture when shooting with the K-1.

Appreciate you taking the time to post your dramatic example!

Don

**Canada_Rockies** · 01-13-2017, 08:55 AM - **1 Like**

Simple errors happen. My most embarrassing and costly error was way back in the 1980's when I was shooting a wedding. I lost all the bride's dressing pictures. Bounce flash, but the KX was set on 1/125 and the X sync speed on that camera is 1/60.

I will never criticize someone for a basic error like underexposing. I am very impressed with the modern day sensor and software combination that allows rescuing 4 stop underexposed images.

**isb.deep** · 01-13-2017, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by DrBop

This is very impressive! Thanks for sharing. Wish I could say I have never underexposed so considerably. I've inadvertently hit the wrong profile, dialed in (or started with) the wrong ISO, and committed myriad other errors when shooting casually or hurriedly (such as at a child's birthday party).

So good to know that all that dynamic richness is in there for recapture when shooting with the K-1.

Appreciate you taking the time to post your dramatic example!

Don

Thank you! For me, the wrong settings have happened once in a while but most of my woes for underexposure happen when I jump the gun with the shutter button and the flash is still charging. Flash vs kids, the kids mostly win

teiki arii · 01-14-2017, 02:58 AM - **1 Like**

Actually, I am not surprised although I am very impressed by the K-1. It's one of the reason I chose K-1! His Iso-variance: the best one you can find on DSLR OVF camera today until Iso800, actually better than D810 although they share the same Sony sensor.. that's why I underexpose a little bit, the behavior is much like slide rolls, to recover some details in highlights..

A tip: underexpose to 1 EV (or what you prefer) and push on green button to make sure you've got a comfortable workable picture..

carolina_sky · 01-14-2017, 12:46 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by teiki arii

Actually, I am not surprised although I am very impressed by the K-1. It's one of the reason I chose K-1! His Iso-variance: the best one you can find on DSLR OVF camera today until Iso800, actually better than D810 although they share the same Sony sensor.. that's why I underexpose a little bit, the behavior is much like slide rolls, to recover some details in highlights..

A tip: underexpose to 1 EV (or what you prefer) and push on green button to make sure you've got a comfortable workable picture..

+1. esp. shooting landscape with any sun or bright lights. I underexpose 1/2 to 1 EV typically. With pixel shift you can push it even more (i'll go to -2 ev in pixel shift without worrying too much).

01-05-2017, 07:03 PM - 3 Likes	#21
isb.deep Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Sterling, VA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 143	I can certainly put in another vote for the amazing dynamic range and latitude for shadow recovery from the K-1. I couldn't have imagined getting the same results from an APS-c body. Attached Images

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01-01-2017, 09:36 AM	#16
wanderer2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 301	Originally posted by bvg What is F-1? Yes, typo. Either that or some sort of mental slip because of my years of watching F1 racing. Sorry.

01-01-2017, 03:58 PM	#17
pichur Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 63	Originally posted by automorphism It's not really blank. It's just that the tonal range is compressed so that different tones are hard to distinguish by your eye displayed on the monitor, and also that in the Raw file there is a much larger range of brightness values per pixel than are even possible to display on a regular 8-bit per colour channel monitor. Expanding the expressed difference between different stored values and using the additional Raw data allows you to make the picture appear more normal. As a simple analogy, it's like if you used a blue pen to write on a slightly lighter blue paper. There's still a difference, but it's small. Software can detect this difference and lighten the paper whilst keeping the tone of the ink so that the writing is more visible. Note - in the unaltered picture above you can even improve it without the Raw data, and it could be a fun experiment for you to try. It's just that with the Raw data the improvement is much more drastic. This is amazing. There is information there that cannot be seen, but the processing software sees it and can "extract" it making the picture usable. Thanks for the explanation, everyone!

01-03-2017, 02:20 AM	#18
peterh337 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: London Posts: 573	The K3 (had it for 2 years - an outstanding camera with the 16-85) is nowhere near the K1 on low light performance. I can't offer a stunning case like those posted above but where the K3 started to make just-visible noise at iso 500, the K1 is around iso 2000. By "visible" I mean visible at 1:1 in say Lightrooom; not visible to a person looking at the whole pic. I do luminance noise reduction in LR as a habit because if you export the image to a say 95% quality jpeg, the resulting jpeg is 2x bigger if there was that very fine noise, even though both images look exactly the same when looked at whole or even with a moderate zoom. The downside is the size and weight: 1.8kg for the K1+24-70 versus 1.4kg for the K3+16-85 and the difference is size is very noticeable too. IMHO the K1 is right at the very top of what I want to carry around, ever. (Of course those two lenses are different). But I spoke to an old Pentax dealer the other day and his view was that Pentax did this deliberately because that is expected in that market position, together with an all-metal body, etc. The K1 is worth it though. Went for a little walk in the countryside yesterday and was astounded at how well the TAV mode (which is how I used the K3 too, mostly) works. The AF is also much better than the K3.

01-04-2017, 03:31 AM	#19
PePe Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Helsinki, Finland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 597	Originally posted by longbow My wife and I went to a local wetland area this morning. I took only the K-1 & DFA 24-70 to focus on landscape rather wildlife today. This flock of geese unexpectedly came in for a landing right in front of us, I adjusted the shutter speed up, but didn't realize the camera's iso was set so low and ended up with a severely underexposed image. Ran it through Lightroom anyway to see what I could do to save it. Raised exposure up +4.5, made a couple other small adjustments and even cropped it some, was very surprised by the outcome. The first photo is before post process, the second is after. Shot at 70mm, 400iso, 1/125 sec & f8 This is exactly the thing that continues to impress me! Still after 8 months with the K-1. I have a couple of similar cases where seemingly hopeless shots have turned out to be quite usable. FF does make a difference in this respect!

01-04-2017, 04:26 AM - 1 Like	#20
Tan68 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 501	When I bought K-5 after having the K-20, I considered the K-5 to have a built-in graduated ND. With the K-5, I don't use grad-ND, expose for highlights, and adjust the image later. I have almost never been disappointed although it is sometimes critical to expose only as dark as necessary to preserve highlights and no more... With K-1, I consider the camera has a built-in zoom.. in that I can either use a 35mm lens at FF or, if I need to, crop up to a ~50mm lens and still have the same capability of my K-5. The K-1 gives me more flexibility with my typical wide + short tele lens kit.

01-12-2017, 04:34 AM	#22
ozturert Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 29	K1 has excellent DR, very similar to D810. But then you should not need that much recovery anyway Sometimes I play with K1 to recover shadows like the examples you guys are giving, still I don't remember me taking such a badly underexposed photo in my life

01-12-2017, 12:27 PM	#23
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,390	Originally posted by ozturert ....still I don't remember me taking such a badly underexposed photo in my life Ha! You're young, then, or else truly brilliant and we bow before you!

01-12-2017, 12:43 PM	#24
ozturert Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 29	Originally posted by texandrews Ha! You're young, then, or else truly brilliant and we bow before you! So you have underexposed some of your shots by 4-5 stops? Then I'll bow before you 1 stop is OK, maybe I've had to lift shadows by 2-3 stops at most, other than that no sane person needs +4-5 EV post-correction.

01-12-2017, 12:45 PM	#25
lithedreamer Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,799	Originally posted by ozturert So you have underexposed some of your shots by 4-5 stops? Then I'll bow before you 1 stop is OK, maybe I've had to lift shadows by 2-3 stops at most, other than that no sane person needs +4-5 EV post-correction. One photo, as I posted earlier in this thread. I went from shooting manual flash for about an hour to an ambient light portrait and forgot to switch to aperture priority or at least double check my light meter.

01-12-2017, 04:14 PM	#26
DrBop Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: on a trail, Bay Area, Northern California Photos: Gallery Posts: 35	Originally posted by isb.deep I can certainly put in another vote for the amazing dynamic range and latitude for shadow recovery from the K-1. I couldn't have imagined getting the same results from an APS-c body. This is very impressive! Thanks for sharing. Wish I could say I have never underexposed so considerably. I've inadvertently hit the wrong profile, dialed in (or started with) the wrong ISO, and committed myriad other errors when shooting casually or hurriedly (such as at a child's birthday party). So good to know that all that dynamic richness is in there for recapture when shooting with the K-1. Appreciate you taking the time to post your dramatic example! Don

01-13-2017, 08:55 AM - 1 Like	#27
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Simple errors happen. My most embarrassing and costly error was way back in the 1980's when I was shooting a wedding. I lost all the bride's dressing pictures. Bounce flash, but the KX was set on 1/125 and the X sync speed on that camera is 1/60. I will never criticize someone for a basic error like underexposing. I am very impressed with the modern day sensor and software combination that allows rescuing 4 stop underexposed images.

01-13-2017, 10:35 AM	#28
isb.deep Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Sterling, VA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 143	Originally posted by DrBop This is very impressive! Thanks for sharing. Wish I could say I have never underexposed so considerably. I've inadvertently hit the wrong profile, dialed in (or started with) the wrong ISO, and committed myriad other errors when shooting casually or hurriedly (such as at a child's birthday party). So good to know that all that dynamic richness is in there for recapture when shooting with the K-1. Appreciate you taking the time to post your dramatic example! Don Thank you! For me, the wrong settings have happened once in a while but most of my woes for underexposure happen when I jump the gun with the shutter button and the flash is still charging. Flash vs kids, the kids mostly win

01-14-2017, 02:58 AM - 1 Like	#29
teiki arii Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 689	Actually, I am not surprised although I am very impressed by the K-1. It's one of the reason I chose K-1! His *Iso-variance: the best one you can find on DSLR OVF camera today until Iso800, actually better than D810 although they share the same Sony sensor.. that's why I underexpose a little bit, the behavior is much like slide rolls, to recover some details in highlights.. A tip: underexpose to 1 EV (or what you prefer) and push on green button to make sure you've got a comfortable workable picture..*

01-14-2017, 12:46 PM - 1 Like	#30
carolina_sky Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 156	Originally posted by teiki arii Actually, I am not surprised although I am very impressed by the K-1. It's one of the reason I chose K-1! His *Iso-variance: the best one you can find on DSLR OVF camera today until Iso800, actually better than D810 although they share the same Sony sensor.. that's why I underexpose a little bit, the behavior is much like slide rolls, to recover some details in highlights.. A tip: underexpose to 1 EV (or what you prefer) and push on green button to make sure you've got a comfortable workable picture..* +1. esp. shooting landscape with any sun or bright lights. I underexpose 1/2 to 1 EV typically. With pixel shift you can push it even more (i'll go to -2 ev in pixel shift without worrying too much).