K-1 and Sigma 50-500 INDOOR photography?

RickC · 01-02-2017, 06:35 PM

It was recommended I start a new thread about this, so - I was wondering if anyone has shot this lens on a K-1 for indoor sports. I am considering it to shoot sports such as indoor basketball and volleyball. Wondering if it would be necessary to bump up the ISO to 6400 or if it could handle it a bit lower and still keep a reasonable (1/500th +) shutter speed? How about its autofocus in that environment?

Any experiences would be appreciated!

I understand the k-1 is not designed to be a sports camera, but its default 4.5 fps will work for what I want. I also believe I read somewhere if shooting in JPEG you can get about 6 fps (unverified) but I am familiar with what I am shooting so that helps me plan my shots.

EDITED to change "RAW" to "JPEG"

Last edited by RickC; 01-03-2017 at 05:11 AM.

svassh · 01-02-2017, 08:49 PM

I can't speak to that specific lens I did shoot my old Sigma 150-600 and 1Dx together indoors at a graduation ceremony once and it was fine but still ISO 6400 and much lower shutter speed than you need to freeze volleyball and basketball action. I can't imagine you would be lower than ISO 6400 at 1/500 unless you were at f/2.8. Also volleyball and basketball both require fast AFC and lens focus speed. Not sure how fast the Bigma focuses.

**UncleVanya** · 01-02-2017, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by RickC

It was recommended I start a new thread about this, so - I was wondering if anyone has shot this lens on a K-1 for indoor sports. I am considering it to shoot sports such as indoor basketball and volleyball. Wondering if it would be necessary to bump up the ISO to 6400 or if it could handle it a bit lower and still keep a reasonable (1/500th +) shutter speed? How about its autofocus in that environment?

Any experiences would be appreciated!

I understand the k-1 is not designed to be a sports camera, but its default 4.5 fps will work for what I want. I also believe I read somewhere if shooting in RAW you can get about 6 fps (unverified) but I am familiar with what I am shooting so that helps me plan my shots.

As far as I know RAW wouldn't increase speed. Shooting in CROP mode will.

hcc · 01-03-2017, 01:06 AM

I shoot volley-ball indoor including in poorly-lighted school sport halls. I use my K-3 (and my K-7 before), which is not a FF, but I think that my comments may still help.

The aperture of the Sigma 50-500 is not large enough (f4.5 minimum) IMO and the lens is not fast enough. This will affect both the shutter speed and AF. You want to use a high shutter speed: 1/100 s minimum, preferably 1/500 s and faster, to have sharp pictures (with 'frozen' ball and players). Even by increasing the ISO, you will not achieve such shutter speed with f4.5 and smaller aperture in most cases. The other issue is AF. The AF needs time to focus and the focusing time tends to be large(r) with zoom lenses.

Personally I shoot VB with a fast prime, preferably a fast MF prime that I pre-focus in terms of distance. I often seat next to the team coach and/or behind the referee(s): i.e., less than 8-10 m from the action. In terms of lens I tend to use preferentially my Voigtlander 58 mm f1.4 (MF), Carl Zeiss 85mm f1.4 (MF) and FA77mm f1.8 (AF) with my K-3. The latter lens is however restricted to relatively well-lighted sport halls mostly.

For completeness, I tried other lenses (you can check my lens profile) and I found that a fast lens (f1.8 or better f1.4) is a requirement.

I hope that the comment may help.

Last edited by hcc; 01-03-2017 at 01:41 AM.

RickC · 01-03-2017, 05:10 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

As far as I know RAW wouldn't increase speed. Shooting in CROP mode will.

You are correct - stating RAW was a miscommunication between my brain and fingers. I actually meant JPEG, but perhaps the speed gain does come from cropped mode.

---------- Post added 01-03-2017 at 07:20 AM ----------

Originally posted by hcc

I shoot volley-ball indoor including in poorly-lighted school sport halls. I use my K-3 (and my K-7 before), which is not a FF, but I think that my comments may still help.

The aperture of the Sigma 50-500 is not large enough (f4.5 minimum) IMO and the lens is not fast enough. This will affect both the shutter speed and AF. You want to use a high shutter speed: 1/100 s minimum, preferably 1/500 s and faster, to have sharp pictures (with 'frozen' ball and players). Even by increasing the ISO, you will not achieve such shutter speed with f4.5 and smaller aperture in most cases. The other issue is AF. The AF needs time to focus and the focusing time tends to be large(r) with zoom lenses.

Personally I shoot VB with a fast prime, preferably a fast MF prime that I pre-focus in terms of distance. I often seat next to the team coach and/or behind the referee(s): i.e., less than 8-10 m from the action. In terms of lens I tend to use preferentially my Voigtlander 58 mm f1.4 (MF), Carl Zeiss 85mm f1.4 (MF) and FA77mm f1.8 (AF) with my K-3. The latter lens is however restricted to relatively well-lighted sport halls mostly.

For completeness, I tried other lenses (you can check my lens profile) and I found that a fast lens (f1.8 or better f1.4) is a requirement.

I hope that the comment may help.

Thank you. That was my gut feeling. I am also able to get quite close to the participants and current use a f2.8 70-200 at the 1/500th speed at ISO 3200. Sometimes if I am willing to under expose a bit and fix in post processing I will either increase the shutter speed or drop the ISO.

After hitting the reserve fund for a k-1 (love it and worth the $$$$ hit!) I don't want to drop even more on a lens in which I would find myself disappointed. I am thinking at this point to stay with the 70-200 and if I need extra reach, switch to crop mode.

I was wondering if you found using the prime with pre-focusing a bit easier with VB than perhaps a sport like basketball where participants cover more ground when moving toward/away from you.

hcc · 01-03-2017, 06:57 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by RickC

I was wondering if you found using the prime with pre-focusing a bit easier with VB than perhaps a sport like basketball where participants cover more ground when moving toward/away from you.

Yes, definitely. As a former VB player myself and a photographer now, I can confirm that VB players move very fast (possibly faster than basket-ball players), sometimes in an explosive manner (eg dive, roll), but they cover much less grounds than in basket-ball.

On a VB court, the players are mainly constrained to a 9-m by 9-m square (their team side) and each player often plays in a 3-m by 2-m area maximum, especially at high level with specialised/dedicated role. Thus it is easy to pre-focus a MF lens IMHO.

You may consider to buy an older fast MF lens (eg A50mm f1.4), use it and compare your shots with those of your 70-200mm lens.

Hope that the comment may help.

Joe Dusel · 01-03-2017, 02:45 PM

Wow, if you can shoot at 1/500 at 3200 ISO that gym must be pretty well lit. In the gym at the local community college I have had to shoot basketball and volleyball with my K-3 and 70-200mm Sigma lens at 6400 ISO at 1/400 sec, and then I still have to bring up the exposure by around a stop in Lightroom. I just recently got a K-1 and I am looking forward to seeing the results. I have noticed the K-1 gets decent shots as high as around 10,000 ISO.

RickC · 01-03-2017, 08:07 PM

Remember the operative word is "can". It generally means I have to do more post processing. Here are a couple images taken with a Tamron f2.8 28-75 on my K3. You can see more of the type of images I take on my website: Rick's World. I am the photographer for the Wake County Senior Games and venues include but not limited to outdoor tracks, bowling alleys, pool halls, gymnasiums and swimming pools! You can easily imagine my interest in a zoom that would reach out a bit more! Folks kind of enjoy seeing themselves doing their thing!

The first one is at 1/1000, f2.8, ISO 3200 I don't recall how much I had to lighten it in Lightroom PP, but it was probably 1.5-2 stops.

The second one at 1/1000, f2.8, ISO 4000[/URL].

MadMathMind · 01-03-2017, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by hcc

The aperture of the Sigma 50-500 is not large enough (f4.5 minimum) IMO and the lens is not fast enough. This will affect both the shutter speed and AF. You want to use a high shutter speed: 1/100 s minimum, preferably 1/500 s and faster, to have sharp pictures (with 'frozen' ball and players). Even by increasing the ISO, you will not achieve such shutter speed with f4.5 and smaller aperture in most cases. The other issue is AF. The AF needs time to focus and the focusing time tends to be large(r) with zoom lenses.

I concur. I took my Sigma 150-500, a f/5-6.3 and it, for the most part, would not focus in a poorly lit penguin exhibit. Almost everything I shot was out of focus. Just not enough light to use such slow lenses.

01-02-2017, 06:35 PM	#1
RickC Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cary Posts: 59	K-1 and Sigma 50-500 INDOOR photography? It was recommended I start a new thread about this, so - I was wondering if anyone has shot this lens on a K-1 for indoor sports. I am considering it to shoot sports such as indoor basketball and volleyball. Wondering if it would be necessary to bump up the ISO to 6400 or if it could handle it a bit lower and still keep a reasonable (1/500th +) shutter speed? How about its autofocus in that environment? Any experiences would be appreciated! I understand the k-1 is not designed to be a sports camera, but its default 4.5 fps will work for what I want. I also believe I read somewhere if shooting in JPEG you can get about 6 fps (unverified) but I am familiar with what I am shooting so that helps me plan my shots. EDITED to change "RAW" to "JPEG" Last edited by RickC; 01-03-2017 at 05:11 AM.

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01-02-2017, 08:49 PM	#2
svassh Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 72	I can't speak to that specific lens I did shoot my old Sigma 150-600 and 1Dx together indoors at a graduation ceremony once and it was fine but still ISO 6400 and much lower shutter speed than you need to freeze volleyball and basketball action. I can't imagine you would be lower than ISO 6400 at 1/500 unless you were at f/2.8. Also volleyball and basketball both require fast AFC and lens focus speed. Not sure how fast the Bigma focuses.

01-02-2017, 10:58 PM	#3
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,460	Originally posted by RickC It was recommended I start a new thread about this, so - I was wondering if anyone has shot this lens on a K-1 for indoor sports. I am considering it to shoot sports such as indoor basketball and volleyball. Wondering if it would be necessary to bump up the ISO to 6400 or if it could handle it a bit lower and still keep a reasonable (1/500th +) shutter speed? How about its autofocus in that environment? Any experiences would be appreciated! I understand the k-1 is not designed to be a sports camera, but its default 4.5 fps will work for what I want. I also believe I read somewhere if shooting in RAW you can get about 6 fps (unverified) but I am familiar with what I am shooting so that helps me plan my shots. As far as I know RAW wouldn't increase speed. Shooting in CROP mode will.

01-03-2017, 01:06 AM	#4
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,005	I shoot volley-ball indoor including in poorly-lighted school sport halls. I use my K-3 (and my K-7 before), which is not a FF, but I think that my comments may still help. The aperture of the Sigma 50-500 is not large enough (f4.5 minimum) IMO and the lens is not fast enough. This will affect both the shutter speed and AF. You want to use a high shutter speed: 1/100 s minimum, preferably 1/500 s and faster, to have sharp pictures (with 'frozen' ball and players). Even by increasing the ISO, you will not achieve such shutter speed with f4.5 and smaller aperture in most cases. The other issue is AF. The AF needs time to focus and the focusing time tends to be large(r) with zoom lenses. Personally I shoot VB with a fast prime, preferably a fast MF prime that I pre-focus in terms of distance. I often seat next to the team coach and/or behind the referee(s): i.e., less than 8-10 m from the action. In terms of lens I tend to use preferentially my Voigtlander 58 mm f1.4 (MF), Carl Zeiss 85mm f1.4 (MF) and FA77mm f1.8 (AF) with my K-3. The latter lens is however restricted to relatively well-lighted sport halls mostly. For completeness, I tried other lenses (you can check my lens profile) and I found that a fast lens (f1.8 or better f1.4) is a requirement. I hope that the comment may help. Last edited by hcc; 01-03-2017 at 01:41 AM.

01-03-2017, 05:10 AM	#5
RickC Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cary Posts: 59 Original Poster	Originally posted by UncleVanya As far as I know RAW wouldn't increase speed. Shooting in CROP mode will. You are correct - stating RAW was a miscommunication between my brain and fingers. I actually meant JPEG, but perhaps the speed gain does come from cropped mode. ---------- Post added 01-03-2017 at 07:20 AM ---------- Originally posted by hcc I shoot volley-ball indoor including in poorly-lighted school sport halls. I use my K-3 (and my K-7 before), which is not a FF, but I think that my comments may still help. The aperture of the Sigma 50-500 is not large enough (f4.5 minimum) IMO and the lens is not fast enough. This will affect both the shutter speed and AF. You want to use a high shutter speed: 1/100 s minimum, preferably 1/500 s and faster, to have sharp pictures (with 'frozen' ball and players). Even by increasing the ISO, you will not achieve such shutter speed with f4.5 and smaller aperture in most cases. The other issue is AF. The AF needs time to focus and the focusing time tends to be large(r) with zoom lenses. Personally I shoot VB with a fast prime, preferably a fast MF prime that I pre-focus in terms of distance. I often seat next to the team coach and/or behind the referee(s): i.e., less than 8-10 m from the action. In terms of lens I tend to use preferentially my Voigtlander 58 mm f1.4 (MF), Carl Zeiss 85mm f1.4 (MF) and FA77mm f1.8 (AF) with my K-3. The latter lens is however restricted to relatively well-lighted sport halls mostly. For completeness, I tried other lenses (you can check my lens profile) and I found that a fast lens (f1.8 or better f1.4) is a requirement. I hope that the comment may help. Thank you. That was my gut feeling. I am also able to get quite close to the participants and current use a f2.8 70-200 at the 1/500th speed at ISO 3200. Sometimes if I am willing to under expose a bit and fix in post processing I will either increase the shutter speed or drop the ISO. After hitting the reserve fund for a k-1 (love it and worth the $$$$ hit!) I don't want to drop even more on a lens in which I would find myself disappointed. I am thinking at this point to stay with the 70-200 and if I need extra reach, switch to crop mode. I was wondering if you found using the prime with pre-focusing a bit easier with VB than perhaps a sport like basketball where participants cover more ground when moving toward/away from you.

01-03-2017, 06:57 AM - 1 Like	#6
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,005	Originally posted by RickC I was wondering if you found using the prime with pre-focusing a bit easier with VB than perhaps a sport like basketball where participants cover more ground when moving toward/away from you. Yes, definitely. As a former VB player myself and a photographer now, I can confirm that VB players move very fast (possibly faster than basket-ball players), sometimes in an explosive manner (eg dive, roll), but they cover much less grounds than in basket-ball. On a VB court, the players are mainly constrained to a 9-m by 9-m square (their team side) and each player often plays in a 3-m by 2-m area maximum, especially at high level with specialised/dedicated role. Thus it is easy to pre-focus a MF lens IMHO. You may consider to buy an older fast MF lens (eg A50mm f1.4), use it and compare your shots with those of your 70-200mm lens. Hope that the comment may help.

01-03-2017, 02:45 PM	#7
Joe Dusel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 126	Wow, if you can shoot at 1/500 at 3200 ISO that gym must be pretty well lit. In the gym at the local community college I have had to shoot basketball and volleyball with my K-3 and 70-200mm Sigma lens at 6400 ISO at 1/400 sec, and then I still have to bring up the exposure by around a stop in Lightroom. I just recently got a K-1 and I am looking forward to seeing the results. I have noticed the K-1 gets decent shots as high as around 10,000 ISO.

01-03-2017, 08:15 PM	#9
MadMathMind Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,717	Originally posted by hcc The aperture of the Sigma 50-500 is not large enough (f4.5 minimum) IMO and the lens is not fast enough. This will affect both the shutter speed and AF. You want to use a high shutter speed: 1/100 s minimum, preferably 1/500 s and faster, to have sharp pictures (with 'frozen' ball and players). Even by increasing the ISO, you will not achieve such shutter speed with f4.5 and smaller aperture in most cases. The other issue is AF. The AF needs time to focus and the focusing time tends to be large(r) with zoom lenses. I concur. I took my Sigma 150-500, a f/5-6.3 and it, for the most part, would not focus in a poorly lit penguin exhibit. Almost everything I shot was out of focus. Just not enough light to use such slow lenses.