IBIS failure at -28C temp

stevebrot · 01-16-2017, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by MJKoski

Back to this topic then, where can I buy a type of battery which works better in these temps? I tried backup car starter lead acid battery system which had USB output with A7R2 as it supplied enough amperage through the USB port to keep camera running on USB power.

The K-1, as with other Pentax flagship models has a DC power input intended for use with the K-AC132 AC power adapter. A suitable external battery pack may also be used. I don't have time to provide a list of links, but I believe there are a couple of do-it-yourself posts on this site detailing how to make your own.

Steve

leekil · 01-16-2017, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by MJKoski

Those are dead like a rock. There is still some water inside the zoom when shaken. And body as well. The sealing is holding in normal atmospheric pressure. The whole set was underwater for approx. 30 minutes before I managed to get them up with a loooong pole fishing net...

If you don't have to surrender them to collect on the insurance, I suggest washing them completely submerged with regular water (or even better, distilled water) to remove all of the salt water. I had a friend whose camera fell into a river, and was totally dead. But months later, after it had dried out, it was working again. Not that it might not have lasting effects, but minimally it would be worth it as a curiosity.

MJKoski · 01-16-2017, 12:18 PM

I will let it be as agreed with insurance company. Salt water corrodes the internals very quickly and that would not be fair game anyway.

Tan68 · 01-17-2017, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by MJKoski

... Mobile phone usage in such temps is discussed every year in media here and tests are being done on regular basis no matter what is their advised temperature limit. ...

Mobile phones have raised the bar for acceptable performance in many areas.

---------- Post added 01-17-17 at 04:33 AM ----------

Originally posted by MJKoski

... I tell you a secret - Winter season has by far best light conditions our country will ever provide. No matter what the specs might say.

I can't imagine Finnish light conditions are ranked in the camera specs sheet..?

---------- Post added 01-17-17 at 04:47 AM ----------

Originally posted by wissink

... I found it hard to function. Didn't help when my fingers were sticking to the tripod and I didn't have the dexterity to operate the knobs to adjust it.

Sounds like you were at risk of becoming a character in a Jack London story
Don't drop the matches...

Too bad there isn't some simple way to know if the camera will work or not. If the user spits and the spit freezes before it hits the ground then leave the camera packed up.

**Quartermaster James** · 01-17-2017, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by wissink

Didn't help when my fingers were sticking to the tripod and I didn't have the dexterity to operate the knobs to adjust it.

This is where the good old Tiltall tripod earns it keep! Especially when equipped with rubber cane/chair tips on the handles!

MJKoski · 01-17-2017, 11:50 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Tan68

I can't imagine Finnish light conditions are ranked in the camera specs sheet..?

Best light happens at -30C and colder during the heart of the winter. No pain, no gain. Gotta be there no matter what specs say.

MJKoski · 01-19-2017, 05:12 AM

Yesterday I got new K-1. I did freezer test before leaving for another winter photo trip. I left it in freezer for 4 hours, but only -22C. Battery was included so it was frozen as well as I fired it up and tried PS & sensor shift. It still worked and EXIF reported -21C temps for the test frames. Maybe there is certain trigger point where something gives when going towards -30C. Or tolerances are wild within the IBIS construction.

**shardulm** · 01-19-2017, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by MJKoski

Yesterday I got new K-1. I did freezer test before leaving for another winter photo trip. I left it in freezer for 4 hours, but only -22C. Battery was included so it was frozen as well as I fired it up and tried PS & sensor shift. It still worked and EXIF reported -21C temps for the test frames. Maybe there is certain trigger point where something gives when going towards -30C. Or tolerances are wild within the IBIS construction.

May be you should just throw a couple of batteries in the freezer and see how they behave in the camera when frozen.

photoptimist · 01-19-2017, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by MJKoski

Yesterday I got new K-1. I did freezer test before leaving for another winter photo trip. I left it in freezer for 4 hours, but only -22C. Battery was included so it was frozen as well as I fired it up and tried PS & sensor shift. It still worked and EXIF reported -21C temps for the test frames. Maybe there is certain trigger point where something gives when going towards -30C. Or tolerances are wild within the IBIS construction.

Yes, it could all be tolerances in the IBIS with some K-1's being more or less sensitive to being used so far outside their manufacturer-specifications.

But it might also be a function of thermal distortions in the IBIS platform if the camera is used in certain ways at very low temperatures. If one side of the IBIS platform is warm (e.g., sensor running LV, long-exposure, LCD panel active, etc.) and the other side is cold (e.g., including changing lenses at extreme low temperature), the differential expansion would induce a curve in the platform which might cause it to get stuck in the IBIS housing.

MJKoski · 01-19-2017, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by shardulm

May be you should just throw a couple of batteries in the freezer and see how they behave in the camera when frozen.

Uhhuh! I did that. I included the battery when I put the camera in the freezer. And it worked still after 4 hours.

fromunderthebridge · 01-19-2017, 03:50 PM - **1 Like**

Btw. related to some of the incredulous "what are you doing to your gear"-posts. I guess you shouldn't take your gear when ski touring then? If I can take sleeping in a tent @ -34C I should hope my gear does too (that time the aperture of my sigma lens froze wide open.. funny that). And yeah, lapland gets pretty cold and pretty during the winter.

**lithedreamer** · 01-19-2017, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by fromunderthebridge

Btw. related to some of the incredulous "what are you doing to your gear"-posts. I guess you shouldn't take your gear when ski touring then? If I can take sleeping in a tent @ -34C I should hope my gear does too (that time the aperture of my sigma lens froze wide open.. funny that). And yeah, lapland gets pretty cold and pretty during the winter.

I don't baby my gear, even the stuff that isn't rated WR, but you presumably wear clothes and sleep in a sleeping bag. Sometimes your gear needs extra support for the rain or cold, too.

leekil · 01-19-2017, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by MJKoski

Yesterday I got new K-1. I did freezer test before leaving for another winter photo trip. I left it in freezer for 4 hours, but only -22C. Battery was included so it was frozen as well as I fired it up and tried PS & sensor shift. It still worked and EXIF reported -21C temps for the test frames. Maybe there is certain trigger point where something gives when going towards -30C. Or tolerances are wild within the IBIS construction.

You have a -22C freezer???

Gimbal · 01-20-2017, 12:48 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MJKoski

Yesterday I got new K-1. I did freezer test before leaving for another winter photo trip. I left it in freezer for 4 hours, but only -22C. Battery was included so it was frozen as well as I fired it up and tried PS & sensor shift. It still worked and EXIF reported -21C temps for the test frames. Maybe there is certain trigger point where something gives when going towards -30C. Or tolerances are wild within the IBIS construction.

There could also be different levels of moisture inside the camera, perhaps the one that froze had just a tiny bit of moist inside and that was enough to prevent the sensor from moving freely.

fromunderthebridge · 01-20-2017, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by lithedreamer

I don't baby my gear, even the stuff that isn't rated WR, but you presumably wear clothes and sleep in a sleeping bag. Sometimes your gear needs extra support for the rain or cold, too.

True. Then again sooner or later the camera temp will drop to match the ambient. Unless you use some sort of active heating or sleep with the gear, neither of which seem very appetizing or sustainable on a week long trek.

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01-16-2017, 09:49 AM	#91
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by MJKoski Back to this topic then, where can I buy a type of battery which works better in these temps? I tried backup car starter lead acid battery system which had USB output with A7R2 as it supplied enough amperage through the USB port to keep camera running on USB power. The K-1, as with other Pentax flagship models has a DC power input intended for use with the K-AC132 AC power adapter. A suitable external battery pack may also be used. I don't have time to provide a list of links, but I believe there are a couple of do-it-yourself posts on this site detailing how to make your own. Steve

01-16-2017, 10:26 AM	#92
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Originally posted by MJKoski Those are dead like a rock. There is still some water inside the zoom when shaken. And body as well. The sealing is holding in normal atmospheric pressure. The whole set was underwater for approx. 30 minutes before I managed to get them up with a loooong pole fishing net... If you don't have to surrender them to collect on the insurance, I suggest washing them completely submerged with regular water (or even better, distilled water) to remove all of the salt water. I had a friend whose camera fell into a river, and was totally dead. But months later, after it had dried out, it was working again. Not that it might not have lasting effects, but minimally it would be worth it as a curiosity.

01-16-2017, 12:18 PM	#93
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784 Original Poster	I will let it be as agreed with insurance company. Salt water corrodes the internals very quickly and that would not be fair game anyway.

01-17-2017, 03:32 AM	#94
Tan68 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 501	Originally posted by MJKoski ... Mobile phone usage in such temps is discussed every year in media here and tests are being done on regular basis no matter what is their advised temperature limit. ... Mobile phones have raised the bar for acceptable performance in many areas. ---------- Post added 01-17-17 at 04:33 AM ---------- Originally posted by MJKoski ... I tell you a secret - Winter season has by far best light conditions our country will ever provide. No matter what the specs might say. I can't imagine Finnish light conditions are ranked in the camera specs sheet..? ---------- Post added 01-17-17 at 04:47 AM ---------- Originally posted by wissink ... I found it hard to function. Didn't help when my fingers were sticking to the tripod and I didn't have the dexterity to operate the knobs to adjust it. Sounds like you were at risk of becoming a character in a Jack London story Don't drop the matches... Too bad there isn't some simple way to know if the camera will work or not. If the user spits and the spit freezes before it hits the ground then leave the camera packed up.

01-17-2017, 08:22 AM	#95
Quartermaster James Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 653	Originally posted by wissink Didn't help when my fingers were sticking to the tripod and I didn't have the dexterity to operate the knobs to adjust it. This is where the good old Tiltall tripod earns it keep! Especially when equipped with rubber cane/chair tips on the handles!

01-17-2017, 11:50 AM - 1 Like	#96
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784 Original Poster	Originally posted by Tan68 I can't imagine Finnish light conditions are ranked in the camera specs sheet..? Best light happens at -30C and colder during the heart of the winter. No pain, no gain. Gotta be there no matter what specs say.

01-19-2017, 05:12 AM	#97
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784 Original Poster	Yesterday I got new K-1. I did freezer test before leaving for another winter photo trip. I left it in freezer for 4 hours, but only -22C. Battery was included so it was frozen as well as I fired it up and tried PS & sensor shift. It still worked and EXIF reported -21C temps for the test frames. Maybe there is certain trigger point where something gives when going towards -30C. Or tolerances are wild within the IBIS construction.

01-19-2017, 07:10 AM	#98
shardulm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Cumming, GA Posts: 793	Originally posted by MJKoski Yesterday I got new K-1. I did freezer test before leaving for another winter photo trip. I left it in freezer for 4 hours, but only -22C. Battery was included so it was frozen as well as I fired it up and tried PS & sensor shift. It still worked and EXIF reported -21C temps for the test frames. Maybe there is certain trigger point where something gives when going towards -30C. Or tolerances are wild within the IBIS construction. May be you should just throw a couple of batteries in the freezer and see how they behave in the camera when frozen.

01-19-2017, 07:25 AM	#99
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,122	Originally posted by MJKoski Yesterday I got new K-1. I did freezer test before leaving for another winter photo trip. I left it in freezer for 4 hours, but only -22C. Battery was included so it was frozen as well as I fired it up and tried PS & sensor shift. It still worked and EXIF reported -21C temps for the test frames. Maybe there is certain trigger point where something gives when going towards -30C. Or tolerances are wild within the IBIS construction. Yes, it could all be tolerances in the IBIS with some K-1's being more or less sensitive to being used so far outside their manufacturer-specifications. But it might also be a function of thermal distortions in the IBIS platform if the camera is used in certain ways at very low temperatures. If one side of the IBIS platform is warm (e.g., sensor running LV, long-exposure, LCD panel active, etc.) and the other side is cold (e.g., including changing lenses at extreme low temperature), the differential expansion would induce a curve in the platform which might cause it to get stuck in the IBIS housing.

01-19-2017, 07:57 AM	#100
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784 Original Poster	Originally posted by shardulm May be you should just throw a couple of batteries in the freezer and see how they behave in the camera when frozen. Uhhuh! I did that. I included the battery when I put the camera in the freezer. And it worked still after 4 hours.

01-19-2017, 03:50 PM - 1 Like	#101
fromunderthebridge Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 181	Btw. related to some of the incredulous "what are you doing to your gear"-posts. I guess you shouldn't take your gear when ski touring then? If I can take sleeping in a tent @ -34C I should hope my gear does too (that time the aperture of my sigma lens froze wide open.. funny that). And yeah, lapland gets pretty cold and pretty during the winter.

01-19-2017, 06:51 PM	#102
lithedreamer Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,799	Originally posted by fromunderthebridge Btw. related to some of the incredulous "what are you doing to your gear"-posts. I guess you shouldn't take your gear when ski touring then? If I can take sleeping in a tent @ -34C I should hope my gear does too (that time the aperture of my sigma lens froze wide open.. funny that). And yeah, lapland gets pretty cold and pretty during the winter. I don't baby my gear, even the stuff that isn't rated WR, but you presumably wear clothes and sleep in a sleeping bag. Sometimes your gear needs extra support for the rain or cold, too.

01-19-2017, 11:56 PM	#103
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Originally posted by MJKoski Yesterday I got new K-1. I did freezer test before leaving for another winter photo trip. I left it in freezer for 4 hours, but only -22C. Battery was included so it was frozen as well as I fired it up and tried PS & sensor shift. It still worked and EXIF reported -21C temps for the test frames. Maybe there is certain trigger point where something gives when going towards -30C. Or tolerances are wild within the IBIS construction. You have a -22C freezer???

01-20-2017, 12:48 AM - 1 Like	#104
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by MJKoski Yesterday I got new K-1. I did freezer test before leaving for another winter photo trip. I left it in freezer for 4 hours, but only -22C. Battery was included so it was frozen as well as I fired it up and tried PS & sensor shift. It still worked and EXIF reported -21C temps for the test frames. Maybe there is certain trigger point where something gives when going towards -30C. Or tolerances are wild within the IBIS construction. There could also be different levels of moisture inside the camera, perhaps the one that froze had just a tiny bit of moist inside and that was enough to prevent the sensor from moving freely.

01-20-2017, 01:18 AM	#105
fromunderthebridge Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 181	Originally posted by lithedreamer I don't baby my gear, even the stuff that isn't rated WR, but you presumably wear clothes and sleep in a sleeping bag. Sometimes your gear needs extra support for the rain or cold, too. True. Then again sooner or later the camera temp will drop to match the ambient. Unless you use some sort of active heating or sleep with the gear, neither of which seem very appetizing or sustainable on a week long trek.