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01-11-2017, 09:39 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
In Finland, that is spelled v-o-d-k-a
Is that a diluted version of the Romanian "palinca"?

01-11-2017, 11:39 AM   #62
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I write what I find. Unlike many paid reviews which do not say anything negative just as manufacturer has instructed. What is wrong with that? I also noted that I could use camera without these dubious gizmos like sensor shift and PS.

-10C is ridiculous limit and thus excuse to bail out when *peep* hits the fan. All the good photo stuff happens below that point anyway.
01-11-2017, 11:49 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by wissink Quote
How do you keep yourself functional and having fun up until -40C? I'm curious out of personal interest. How do you wear big mitts and still manage camera controls? How do you not stick to metal parts? How do you stay clear headed when your fingers feel like they've fallen off? I've been known to do pushups when waiting for longer exposures... But that wasn't much below 0 without the wind.
Down parka. Snow pants. Polar boots. Balaclava. Touch sensor compatible gloves inside down mittens. Hand warmers.
01-11-2017, 12:22 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The sensor "floats" courtesy of electromagnets...perhaps the electrons are getting sticky??? My vote is for protective shutdown due to low voltage.


Steve
Don't know how much "juice" the SR system needs to run as advertised but when it's cold the battery is going to lose strength and voltage will drop a bit plus the voltage drop in the SR coils and we could be there that the SR threshold voltage is too low for the system to function.

01-11-2017, 12:41 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
I write what I find. Unlike many paid reviews which do not say anything negative just as manufacturer has instructed. What is wrong with that? I also noted that I could use camera without these dubious gizmos like sensor shift and PS.

-10C is ridiculous limit and thus excuse to bail out when *peep* hits the fan. All the good photo stuff happens below that point anyway.
I do agree that -10C is a mild temperature to be the lower limit. For the first time in my life I have a car stereo that needs to warm up when the inside of the car is below -20C and I think that is just plain silly.
01-11-2017, 12:52 PM   #66
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The failure was presumably observed after 4 hours of shooting at -28oC.

It's not like Pentax cameras would stop functioning at -11o C, just because they're rated for -10oC:
01-11-2017, 12:59 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
I do agree that -10C is a mild temperature to be the lower limit. For the first time in my life I have a car stereo that needs to warm up when the inside of the car is below -20C and I think that is just plain silly.

Operating specs for Nikon and Canon is worse. Their lower temperature limit is 0C (32F)

01-11-2017, 01:07 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
No. Hardly any consumer electronic products work under such temperatures.
A good many vehicles have trouble starting in those temps! That's why we have block heaters, in cold country.
01-11-2017, 01:27 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
-28C remains normal winter temp in northern Finland and -40C starts to be on the edge. No matter what the manuals say.
It happens but it isn't normal. Luckily I live in Northern Norway way above the arctic circle where I rarely experience temperatures below -15 C.
01-11-2017, 06:00 PM - 3 Likes   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
-10C is ridiculous limit and thus excuse to bail out when *peep* hits the fan. All the good photo stuff happens below that point anyway.
I suspect there is a language or cultural issue here. To clarify a few points and explain the push back you often receive on this site:
  • The -10C number is the design specification, not the performance limit. The difference is real and not particularly subtle.
  • Most other camera makes have a low temp design spec of 0C
  • One is free to shoot at any temperature one pleases
  • If one "bricks" their camera at -32C and make the mistake of leaving one's most recent shots on the SD card, One should not expect warranty coverage when EXIF shows the internal temp at -25C. This is not bad faith on the part of the maker.
  • Unless one is a QA engineer, test-to-fail is not a valid use case, particularly if you don't want to risk "bricking" the camera
  • Intentionally "bricking" camera and then complaining about the operational specs is illogical
  • When operating out-of-spec, strange behavior is a matter of curiosity and not evidence of failure, inadequate design, or poor QC
  • Complaining about strange behavior for out-of-spec operation is bad form
  • Suggesting that <insert brand name here> that one no longer uses is better at out-of-spec operation than Pentax does not win friends or influence people on a Pentax-centric forum
  • Persisting in the above has resulted in unhappy mods in the past. In extreme cases, banishment for life has been employed. (I am not a mod, so not a threat...just an observation.)


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01-11-2017, 06:02 PM   #71
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Back in the 1970s, the shutter mechanism on the all-mechanical Spotmatic 1000 I was using wouldn't work after the camera had been outside at -28°C for 30 minutes. Forget about the battery-powered light metre.
01-11-2017, 06:05 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
Operating specs for Nikon and Canon is worse. Their lower temperature limit is 0C (32F)
Sony too.


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01-11-2017, 06:13 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
That is a fault. -28C is standard winter temperature here and any brand selling stuff here should take it into account.
There aren't enough Canadians, Russians, Norwegians, and Finns to constitute a commercially viable market for manufacturers to produce an affordable SLR that can operate for hours below -10°C. It was true in the 1970s and is still true now.
01-11-2017, 07:24 PM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
I was able to continue shooting without those functions. That did not stop me but ruined a sensor shift panorama for one scene.

I stop photography at -40C if wind picks up. Not fun anymore after that.

And yes, shutter sound changes somewhat. It becomes hard "clack" with sharp accent. 1Ds3 did the same.
This is mostly due to the presence of the damping material used. That material is usually foam that tends to harden and become less pliable with colder temperatures and ends up offering a harder than desired surface for the mirror slap.

---------- Post added 01-11-17 at 10:12 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
How is your K-1 working in the cold? Yesterday the IBIS unit failed completely after being exposed to ~ -28C for 4 hours or so. PS would not start exposure, sensor shift did not respond to controls and shake reduction did nothing. It started to work again today after warming up in the bag overnight. It did this with full battery as well.

I would like to know if your unit works properly.
Its not IBIS that failed. Its the battery. You need to use specialty li-ion battery for that low a temperature. I understand your argument about it being a full battery. .. so allow me to explain. Li-ions discharge at -20degrees. Even if they don't their internal resistance becomes much higher dramatically reducing their C rating (the ability to supply sustained current at the specified voltage). IBIS is the most current demanding component in the K-1 and battery pretty much refuses to supply the minimum needed current to the IBIS (electromagnets). Now the obvious argument is that the battery meter icon is showing 100% so theoretically battery is full right? Correct. Battery is full and good enough to supply current just enough current to the less power hungry components of the system (you could still take pictures, its IBIS that stopped seemingly). When the battery warmed up it restored its C rating to meet the high current demands of IBIS and it worked as before.
Here is what i recommend. Try keeping your fully charged batteries warm and swap them often. LeFePO4 chemistry is more promising at low temps. NiCd AA can sustain low temperatures ad well. Use them in a battery grip. Use an external battery pack to power the camera and keep the battery pack close to your body inside your jacket. Chances are IBIS will continue to work as long as the battery is warm enough to supply minimum current needed.

Last edited by shardulm; 01-11-2017 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Typos
01-12-2017, 04:23 AM   #75
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Is the issue here that the pixel shift stops working at this temperature or that nothing works at this temperature? Because if it is the former, then I would just shoot without pixel shift enabled. If it is the latter and turning off shake reduction and pixel shift do not allow images to be made, then that would be more of a problem.

At the same time, four hours at -28 C is a lot for any electronic gear to handle.
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