IBIS failure at -28C temp

stevebrot · 01-12-2017, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by shardulm

Its not IBIS that failed. Its the battery. You need to use specialty li-ion battery for that low a temperature. I understand your argument about it being a full battery. .. so allow me to explain. Li-ions discharge at -20degrees. Even if they don't their internal resistance becomes much higher dramatically reducing their C rating (the ability to supply sustained current at the specified voltage).

Excellent technical explanation.

Steve

(...but...but...but...Sony...

)

photoptimist · 01-12-2017, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Excellent technical explanation.

Steve

(...but...but...but...Sony...

)

I'd bet that Sony cameras stay warmer inside because the sensor and image processing circuits are on 100% of the time. The flipside of poorer battery life of mirrorless cameras is that the extra power draw from the battery keeps the camera at a higher-than-ambient temperature.

banep · 01-12-2017, 10:32 AM

My 2 cents:

1) Is -10 temperature limit outside or inside a camera?
I was shooting last saturday during the whole day on temperatures between -24 and -19 but based on exif file temperature inside my camera felt just slightly below -10 degrees.
Actually just one shot with "Camera Temperature : -13 C" in exif data, everything else was higher than that so that wasn't too much out of specs.

2) Compare Pentax with Sony cameras is not fair because those Sony cameras have builtin 4k block heater

wissink · 01-14-2017, 10:57 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Quartermaster James

Down parka. Snow pants. Polar boots. Balaclava. Touch sensor compatible gloves inside down mittens. Hand warmers.

Thanks for the follow up. So generally speaking spec ops photo ninja is the way to go.

I've been out shooting and I think my mitts were the weak link. I found it hard to function. Didn't help when my fingers were sticking to the tripod and I didn't have the dexterity to operate the knobs to adjust it.

MJKoski · 01-15-2017, 01:28 PM - **1 Like**

I lost my K-1 and 15-30 to the depths of sea during Wednesday evening this week :/ I slipped badly and fell into the sea from a cliff in heavy winter clothing. Kind of lucky to be alive. So...it may take a while to get back trying some other type of battery and battery insert in those temps. Insurance worked though, another K-1 is ordered already.

K-1 and 15-30 resisted sea water about ~15 seconds before the lights went off under water. I have such a nice paperweight right now sitting on my desk.

stevebrot · 01-15-2017, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by MJKoski

I lost my K-1 and 15-30 to the depths of sea during Wednesday evening this week :/ I slipped badly and fell into the sea from a cliff in heavy winter clothing. Kind of lucky to be alive. So...it may take a while to get back trying some other type of battery and battery insert in those temps. Insurance worked though, another K-1 is ordered already.

K-1 and 15-30 resisted sea water about ~15 seconds before the lights went off under water. I have such a nice paperweight right now sitting on my desk.

Glad you survived...sorry about your gear.

Steve

**jbinpg** · 01-15-2017, 02:48 PM

Apparently the EXIF temperature is read from somewhere on an internal circuit board location. In my experience, it is always warmer by several degrees than ambient.

redcat · 01-15-2017, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by MJKoski

I lost my K-1 and 15-30 to the depths of sea during Wednesday evening this week :/ I slipped badly and fell into the sea from a cliff in heavy winter clothing. Kind of lucky to be alive. So...it may take a while to get back trying some other type of battery and battery insert in those temps. Insurance worked though, another K-1 is ordered already. K-1 and 15-30 resisted sea water about ~15 seconds before the lights went off under water. I have such a nice paperweight right now sitting on my desk.

oh my, lucky you, still be able to comment on this thread

and luck you, the insurance worked well ^^ an extra K-1 paperweight is always welcome

MJKoski · 01-16-2017, 03:54 AM - **1 Like**

Well yeah! But, as I wrote I wanted another K-1 to replace the dead one. I could have taken the money and jumped to another brand. Recent FW updates brought useful features like red vision mode and bulb timer which are good enough for me. @Rondec asked if camera worked without PS and sensor shift - yes it did. I got photos that night but missed one sensor shift composition which would have had 4:3 aspect ratio.

Back to this topic then, where can I buy a type of battery which works better in these temps? I tried backup car starter lead acid battery system which had USB output with A7R2 as it supplied enough amperage through the USB port to keep camera running on USB power. But the weight of that monstrosity was 14 kg. Not really suitable for longer treks.

banep · 01-16-2017, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by MJKoski

K-1 and 15-30 resisted sea water about ~15 seconds before the lights went off under water.

Good to know almost as "if you hold a lungful of air, you can survive in the total vacuum of space for about 30 seconds".

But always look on the bright side of life, maybe new one won't have that white dot issue.

p.s. I assume that you are alive and well otherwise I won't be joking at all

You Tube

MJKoski · 01-16-2017, 06:33 AM

Yes I got lucky, and that was the second time already. In 2011 I drove off the road at 70km/h and hit a large tree (tree 1 - car 0). It matters that I did not hit my head (this time) because I had to swim few meters to get a foothold and then wade through the water to more secure ground.

It might be better to stop this insane hobby as humans do not usually have nine lives.

tabl10s · 01-16-2017, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by MJKoski

I lost my K-1 and 15-30 to the depths of sea during Wednesday evening this week :/ I slipped badly and fell into the sea from a cliff in heavy winter clothing. Kind of lucky to be alive. So...it may take a while to get back trying some other type of battery and battery insert in those temps. Insurance worked though, another K-1 is ordered already.

K-1 and 15-30 resisted sea water about ~15 seconds before the lights went off under water. I have such a nice paperweight right now sitting on my desk.

Have you rinsed, dried and powered on?

MJKoski · 01-16-2017, 08:59 AM

Those are dead like a rock. There is still some water inside the zoom when shaken. And body as well. The sealing is holding in normal atmospheric pressure. The whole set was underwater for approx. 30 minutes before I managed to get them up with a loooong pole fishing net...

**gaweidert** · 01-16-2017, 09:12 AM - **1 Like**

I wonder if it is possible to stuff a hand warmer packet inside an empty battery grip to keep the camera warm?

MJKoski · 01-16-2017, 09:29 AM

Normal battery slot is too tight, but inside a grip it could fit when stuffed carefully. There is some spare room there at least if one modifies the battery holder a bit. This way, the warmer could heat both the body and the battery.

And sure...empty grip would would take at least 3 chemical hand warmers or large one - foot warmers and such.

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01-12-2017, 08:35 AM	#76
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by shardulm Its not IBIS that failed. Its the battery. You need to use specialty li-ion battery for that low a temperature. I understand your argument about it being a full battery. .. so allow me to explain. Li-ions discharge at -20degrees. Even if they don't their internal resistance becomes much higher dramatically reducing their C rating (the ability to supply sustained current at the specified voltage). Excellent technical explanation. Steve (...but...but...but...Sony... )

01-12-2017, 09:11 AM	#77
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,125	Originally posted by stevebrot Excellent technical explanation. Steve (...but...but...but...Sony... ) I'd bet that Sony cameras stay warmer inside because the sensor and image processing circuits are on 100% of the time. The flipside of poorer battery life of mirrorless cameras is that the extra power draw from the battery keeps the camera at a higher-than-ambient temperature.

01-12-2017, 10:32 AM	#78
banep Banned Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 360	My 2 cents: 1) Is -10 temperature limit outside or inside a camera? I was shooting last saturday during the whole day on temperatures between -24 and -19 but based on exif file temperature inside my camera felt just slightly below -10 degrees. Actually just one shot with "Camera Temperature : -13 C" in exif data, everything else was higher than that so that wasn't too much out of specs. 2) Compare Pentax with Sony cameras is not fair because those Sony cameras have builtin 4k block heater

01-14-2017, 10:57 AM - 1 Like	#79
wissink Veteran Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: S-ON Photos: Gallery Posts: 609	Originally posted by Quartermaster James Down parka. Snow pants. Polar boots. Balaclava. Touch sensor compatible gloves inside down mittens. Hand warmers. Thanks for the follow up. So generally speaking spec ops photo ninja is the way to go. I've been out shooting and I think my mitts were the weak link. I found it hard to function. Didn't help when my fingers were sticking to the tripod and I didn't have the dexterity to operate the knobs to adjust it.

01-15-2017, 01:28 PM - 1 Like	#80
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784 Original Poster	I lost my K-1 and 15-30 to the depths of sea during Wednesday evening this week :/ I slipped badly and fell into the sea from a cliff in heavy winter clothing. Kind of lucky to be alive. So...it may take a while to get back trying some other type of battery and battery insert in those temps. Insurance worked though, another K-1 is ordered already. K-1 and 15-30 resisted sea water about ~15 seconds before the lights went off under water. I have such a nice paperweight right now sitting on my desk.

01-15-2017, 01:39 PM	#81
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by MJKoski I lost my K-1 and 15-30 to the depths of sea during Wednesday evening this week :/ I slipped badly and fell into the sea from a cliff in heavy winter clothing. Kind of lucky to be alive. So...it may take a while to get back trying some other type of battery and battery insert in those temps. Insurance worked though, another K-1 is ordered already. K-1 and 15-30 resisted sea water about ~15 seconds before the lights went off under water. I have such a nice paperweight right now sitting on my desk. Glad you survived...sorry about your gear. Steve

01-15-2017, 02:48 PM	#82
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	Apparently the EXIF temperature is read from somewhere on an internal circuit board location. In my experience, it is always warmer by several degrees than ambient.

01-15-2017, 08:53 PM	#83
redcat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Paris Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,939	Originally posted by MJKoski I lost my K-1 and 15-30 to the depths of sea during Wednesday evening this week :/ I slipped badly and fell into the sea from a cliff in heavy winter clothing. Kind of lucky to be alive. So...it may take a while to get back trying some other type of battery and battery insert in those temps. Insurance worked though, another K-1 is ordered already. K-1 and 15-30 resisted sea water about ~15 seconds before the lights went off under water. I have such a nice paperweight right now sitting on my desk. oh my, lucky you, still be able to comment on this thread and luck you, the insurance worked well ^^ an extra K-1 paperweight is always welcome

01-16-2017, 03:54 AM - 1 Like	#84
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784 Original Poster	Well yeah! But, as I wrote I wanted another K-1 to replace the dead one. I could have taken the money and jumped to another brand. Recent FW updates brought useful features like red vision mode and bulb timer which are good enough for me. @Rondec asked if camera worked without PS and sensor shift - yes it did. I got photos that night but missed one sensor shift composition which would have had 4:3 aspect ratio. Back to this topic then, where can I buy a type of battery which works better in these temps? I tried backup car starter lead acid battery system which had USB output with A7R2 as it supplied enough amperage through the USB port to keep camera running on USB power. But the weight of that monstrosity was 14 kg. Not really suitable for longer treks.

01-16-2017, 06:33 AM	#86
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784 Original Poster	Yes I got lucky, and that was the second time already. In 2011 I drove off the road at 70km/h and hit a large tree (tree 1 - car 0). It matters that I did not hit my head (this time) because I had to swim few meters to get a foothold and then wade through the water to more secure ground. It might be better to stop this insane hobby as humans do not usually have nine lives.

01-16-2017, 07:43 AM	#87
tabl10s Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sacramento(formerly from B'Ham, England). Posts: 1,424	Originally posted by MJKoski I lost my K-1 and 15-30 to the depths of sea during Wednesday evening this week :/ I slipped badly and fell into the sea from a cliff in heavy winter clothing. Kind of lucky to be alive. So...it may take a while to get back trying some other type of battery and battery insert in those temps. Insurance worked though, another K-1 is ordered already. K-1 and 15-30 resisted sea water about ~15 seconds before the lights went off under water. I have such a nice paperweight right now sitting on my desk. Have you rinsed, dried and powered on?

01-16-2017, 08:59 AM	#88
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784 Original Poster	Those are dead like a rock. There is still some water inside the zoom when shaken. And body as well. The sealing is holding in normal atmospheric pressure. The whole set was underwater for approx. 30 minutes before I managed to get them up with a loooong pole fishing net...

01-16-2017, 09:12 AM - 1 Like	#89
gaweidert Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,325	I wonder if it is possible to stuff a hand warmer packet inside an empty battery grip to keep the camera warm?

01-16-2017, 09:29 AM	#90
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784 Original Poster	Normal battery slot is too tight, but inside a grip it could fit when stuffed carefully. There is some spare room there at least if one modifies the battery holder a bit. This way, the warmer could heat both the body and the battery. And sure...empty grip would would take at least 3 chemical hand warmers or large one - foot warmers and such.