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01-12-2017, 01:57 AM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
You call them friends? They should be focused in improving their skills and not in getting you banned, because a better specs camera is not everything when comes to photography
I don't think Biz-engineer was being serious, Dan!




01-12-2017, 02:32 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I don't think Biz-engineer was being serious, Dan!
Neither do i. That's why I put a big smiley face at the end of my comment.
01-12-2017, 03:43 AM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I haven't owned a Canon camera. What I do know in my area, Pentax is not allowed by Canon, and especially the K1. If you own a Canon and switch to Pentax K1, you'll get mobbed by Canon, if not captured by their secret forces and sent to gulag purge for being reeducated. Since I got my K1, I'm being banned by Canon friends, with the features, sensor specs, small size and discounted price of the K1, I've put off Canon fanatics. If I walk in the Canon local shop with my K1, they gonna call the police to take me out.
Yep. Total social despair. ..
01-12-2017, 03:55 AM - 1 Like   #34
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I haven't shot with Canon except for picking up a 6D in a store and playing around with it a little. That said, you should make your decision based on glass -- glass that you currently own or would need to own when you move to full frame.

I really would draw up a list of lenses that you would want in your line up and make sure both brands offer them. In comparison between the 6D and K-1, I would definitely take the K-1, but lenses are more important than camera bodies and Canon makes some very nice lenses, while Pentax's lens line up is a little thin at the moment.


Last edited by Rondec; 01-12-2017 at 08:11 AM.
01-12-2017, 04:00 AM - 3 Likes   #35
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I'm not a native English speaker so forgive my mistakes below.
5DMIV has its own advantages such as much better AF system, touch screen with Dual Pixel AF, better high ISO performance (say 12800 and above), slightly better OOC colors, cheaper good zoom lenses, and DR is really not very much behind. In fact DR at high ISO is slightly better than D810.
I've been using K1 for 1 week only now so cannot deeply comment on it, still here are my comments:
In body image stabilization works, just not as good as EM5II. It gives probably 3 stops advantage, 2-3 with 135mm. This is similar to what I get from A7RII with manual lenses.
AF (at least with DA 50mm f1.8 and DA 70mm f2.4 Limited) is mostly good, in fact I found single point AF as good as D810 but really behind 5DMIV. 5DMIV is really really quite better even compared to 5DMIII. Has better accuracy and faster.
K1's ergonomics is well thought (as you'd expect from high level Pentax cameras), and strangely it does not feel very heavy. I think this is due to ergonomics of the grip. I still prefer control layout and menus of Canon but Pentax is not very much behind.
WiFi and Android software for K1 is OK but transferring photos feels REALLY as if I'm using a 56K modem from 90s. Last night it took 26 seconds to transfer a JPEG file and 3 times more to download PEF file! I'M using firmware 1.4 by the way.
K1's screen does not shut itself off when I look through viewfinder so I need to do it manually which is bothering. Screen of K1 is interesting and sometimes really useful, still you cannot tilt it to the front (not for selfies of course but for tripod work). LED lights are useful, still I'd prefer D500/D5 type illuminated buttons at the back.
Usage of Function dial at the top is mostly intuitive, still I see some drawbacks. For instance when the screen is turned off I cannot see if I disabled SR or not because the LED screen on the top does not show that (because it's quite small).
Sometimes some options are grayed out in the menu and I cannot understand why. It'd be best if there was an explanation as to "why".
M 50mm f1.7 is good but you can see that it's old for 36MP FF sensor (which is not very unexpected anyway).
Manuel focus in live view is waaaay better than D810 and even 5DMIV thanks to focus peaking. Refresh rate of the screen is high enough and in the last week I haven't seen any serious slowing down of the screen. Also, AF in live view is reasonably fast even with DA 50mm f1.8 and DA 70mm f2.4.
The shutter sound is kind of silent, but not as silent as D810's and it makes a slight "metallic" sound. I wish there was a silent shutter option as well.
The Electronic shutter that came with v1.4 is useful, but it disables SR. I wish SR functioned at the same time. I think 5DMIV's shutter sounds better and silent shutter was more silent than K1's.
I wish Tamron released their excellent 24-70mm f2.8 for Pentax, but then Pentax would not be able to sell their copy I'm still debating if I should invest in Pentax more or go back to Canon as I have many Canon lenses. Now I am trying to survive with manuel lenses and 2 AF lenses (frankly these 2 AF lenses are designed for APSC but still not very bad on K1 if you don't look at sides much).
The best thing about K1 has been this: I sold my D810 and bought 7DMII AND K1 with that money There was a very good deal for K1 and I just jumped on it And then I sold my 5DMIV too. So this body is really very good deal.
If I got comfortable with K1's AF, then I'll probably keep it for a long time even though I also have A7RII. K1 feels good in my hands.
01-12-2017, 05:01 AM - 2 Likes   #36
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Welcome to the forum!

I have owned multiple systems, which includes Canon, Sony and Pentax.

I had extensive experience using the 5D 1, 2 and 3 but not the 5D4 though that is extremely similar ergonomics and interface wise.

Also owned the 6D, played with 7D, 7D2 and a few 1D series cameras and many lower Canon 3 digit/Rebel EOS DSLRs plus the lastest Canon camera I had is the 5D III so you can say I know Canon relatively well. Then I sold it and got the K1. Reason being? I was not satisfied with it's Dynamic range of the 5D3, and that is what exactly what the sensor in the K1 is good at. (I was a Sony Canon dual system user then too, had the Sony A99 for higer IQ use, the AF indoor isn't the best, but the IQ and Dynamic range kills the 5D3, until Sony Australia removed A mount cameras support back then so It foreced me to sell the A99 and left 5D3 to deal with everything)

When I had my 5D3 I honestly enjoyed using coz it's one of those get the job done and very reliable but a bit boring kinda tool. It's a good all-rounder, the AF is excellent, the L lenses are excellent, the ISO is good, 3rd party and system support is good, resale value is good etc all except IQ when it comes to push and pull in post especially when a picture is too underexposed. Thus the 5D3 is average as a landscape camera( and product shots too) -It's just too easy to show colour noise in the shadows at even base ISO( If you underexpose in 2.5 to 3 stops then you push the shadows it doesn't look pretty). The 6D however had better dynamic range(A99 is even better) than 5D3 and even better ISO, but it's AF isn't the best and it's build is only okay, plus I had the A99 for higher DR and 5D3's ISO is good enough so my 6D it didn't get much used.

Just FYI, the 5D1 has the best out of camera colours (RAW) of any Canon cameras I have used IMHO, it is punchy and rich, now modern Canon colours are getting more and more flat for better push and pull in post. Then agin 5D1's files just nicer and requires a lot less to tweak about specially when paring older L lenses, the film like feel in the file is still there.

Why get the K1 then? Because I no longer needs to do events as much but I want 1 system that has good ISO, thats is more interesting to use( when I had my A99 and 5D3, the 5D3 is alot more boring but it gets things done, the A99 is more of a special camera that just makes me wanna shoot and I took more special images from it), has good "Holy Trinity" f2.8 zooms, has a better dynmic range than 5D3( I missed this from the A99). And with the resale value of Canon system being high, 5D4 and Somy A99II are very expensive, a demanding AF isn't really needed, the K1 having those plus it's cheaper as a system than both getting the 5D4 and A99II is a logical chocie. Plus I have owned the K5II, and I already know Pentax makes awesome cameras.

To be honest jumping ship isn't easy financially speaking and plus you need to replace all the lenses used to have and get familiar with the new gear takes some time. I would first try to stay in the same system if I can unless there is really a need to switch. Honestly Canon takes awesome portrait photos and their natural colour rendition makes it one of easiest system to get the skin tone to be likable in post. It's AF are swift and have good reaction time and it's easy to set up. The lenses are good, and plenty of support for them. Like I said above the only thing bad is the dynamic range(5D4 is actually good from reviews but it's too expensive) and it isnt the most feature rich and interesting or inspiring camera to use.

I would go for the K1 if you really need the extra IQ and dynmic range for landscape and features to help you shoot, remember if you do that you need to sell your Canon lenses and find replacement, keep the time for selling and shipping posting ads etc and money lost into account as well. Only do that if all these makes sense and if you keep your 7D for sports, or you tested the K1 and found it can perform well in sports to your standard.

Otherwise, sell the 7D and get a 5D3, it's is still an excellent camera. Or keep the 7D and get a A7II or A7R for better DR( A7RII will be even better but the price is high), and EF to E adaptor and keep on using your Canon lenses on it for landscape to save not selling most of your lenses.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by ColiNiloK; 01-12-2017 at 07:06 AM.
01-12-2017, 05:33 AM - 1 Like   #37
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On the opposite, I think 5DMIV is really feature rich thanks to its touch screen and dual pixel AF. And unexpectedly from Canon, it even has GPS The sensor is way ahead of 5DMIII in terms of DR and color and detail in high ISO. So I see 5DM IV as a workhorse with a lot of bells and whistles (again, I was expecting less than Canon).
Still K1 looks more handsome and as I said in my previous post it's slightly easier to hold in hand.
And 5DMIV is expensive, as you said. That's why I sold it as soon as I received a good offer.
01-12-2017, 05:54 AM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozturert Quote
On the opposite, I think 5DMIV is really feature rich thanks to its touch screen and dual pixel AF. And unexpectedly from Canon, it even has GPS The sensor is way ahead of 5DMIII in terms of DR and color and detail in high ISO. So I see 5DM IV as a workhorse with a lot of bells and whistles (again, I was expecting less than Canon).
Yes that is definitely true, but paying that much more to get those improvements if you have a 5D3? I wont. In US the prices of 5D3,5D4 and K1 might be closer, but in Australia when I live the price difference is huge! 5D4 is $5k+ AUD while new 5D3 is still selling for $3k+ AUD while K1 is around 2600-2800 which some second hand 5D3 is selling at this price. One can sell his good conditioned second hand Canon 24-70 f2.8 L II and 70-200 f2.8 L II plus the 5D3 and with that can almost get you a new K1 with DFA24-70 f2.8 and DFA* 70-200 f2.8 to gain the extra IQ, DR and features . It's actually alot cheaper than to get a 5D4, thats what I did actually.

And plus, the K1's DR and IQ is still better than 5D4's and their ISO is very similar, maybe 5D4 is slightly better.

01-12-2017, 06:27 AM - 1 Like   #39
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I have not regretted my switch from Canon to the K-1 for one second. However, to qualify that, I came from a 60D, not a top of the line Canon and my photography is almost exclusively landscapes. If the K-1 is not the best DSLR available for landscapes I greatly doubt any are better. I was able to assemble a lens kit within your limits (being retired I can relate) going to the used market.
01-12-2017, 06:29 AM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozturert:
5DMIV has its own advantages such as much better AF system, touch screen with Dual Pixel AF, better high ISO performance (say 12800 and above), slightly better OOC colors, cheaper good zoom lenses, and DR is really not very much behind.
I would assume the AF is better than the K1 defiantly, even the 5D3 has better AF than the K1, it is more swift shot to shot especially in AFC,the AF area is wider too. However having not tested the 5D4, I will withhold more comment on 5D4 vs K1 AF. Also the K1's AF isn't bad at all, in fact from my use and many users here can testify, it is actually very decent.

OOC colours is subjective. For me, I found Canon colours is excellent for skin tone, abit muted for everything else. Pentax has a more "intriguing" rich colours and tonality.

Cheaper zooms, yes 3rd party support from Sigma and Tamron is more lacking and less variety of original manufacture zooms, so as other 3rd party accessories, it will get better eventually.

Isn't far behind is still behind, Sony won't stop making even better sensors to further the gap again. Though I have to give Canon the credit that 5D4's DR is now indeed a lot better than the 5D3. On higher ISO maybe 5D4 will not be behind on K1, but most of the time 12800 or higher ISO isn't really needed.

QuoteOriginally posted by ozturert:
In body image stabilization works, just not as good as EM5II. It gives probably 3 stops advantage, 2-3 with 135mm. This is similar to what I get from A7RII with manual lenses.
That's about right, I also have the EM5II, the 5 Axis IBIS in there is amazingly good, not problem to get sharp shots at even 1 sec shutter speed sometimes! Having said that it is much easier to stabilise a 4/3 sensor than a much larger full frame sensor, Oly also invented the 5 axis IBIS, so it isn't hard to imagine why Oly cameras is so good at it. For full frame cameras, only Sony and Pentax has IBIS or 5 axis IBIS, so there is already an advantage over Canon and Nikon bodies not able to stabilise all lenses. However the in lens stabilisation is more effective for stabilising long teles lenses than in body stabilisation though, that's another story.

QuoteOriginally posted by ozturert:
5DMIV is really really quite better even compared to 5DMIII. Has better accuracy and faster.
Would love to test that and see for myself.

QuoteOriginally posted by ozturert:
I still prefer control layout and menus of Canon but Pentax is not very much behind.
I think with the touch screen and more refined manual, the newer Canons operates much more efficiently than before, I found the Q manual is what slows me down before, now it should be much easier to use. Pentax's manual is good, but can be made more refined, well all camera manual can be actually, Sony and Olympus especially. Funny that Sony's manual from 2006 to 2010 is actually very simple and effective, it got worse and worse now getting better again.

QuoteOriginally posted by ozturert:
K1's screen does not shut itself off when I look through viewfinder so I need to do it manually which is bothering. Screen of K1 is interesting and sometimes really useful, still you cannot tilt it to the front (not for selfies of course but for tripod work). LED lights are useful, still I'd prefer D500/D5 type illuminated buttons at the back.
I agree 100% here, wish there is a auto on off sensor with the LCD screen, and indeed if the LEDs can lit the front more it's definitely better and illuminated buttons are the best.

QuoteOriginally posted by ozturert:
I wish Tamron released their excellent 24-70mm f2.8 for Pentax, but then Pentax would not be able to sell their copy
I think you probably already know that the Pentax DFA 24-70mm f2.8 is pretty much the Tamron SP 24-70mm f2.8 Di VC USD without the VC and possibly has a slight improvement over the Tamron, I'm not sure if the there are any implements except maybe the coating, but price wise there is a jump.

Overall very good feedback and I agree with mostly what you said.

Last edited by ColiNiloK; 01-12-2017 at 06:46 AM.
01-12-2017, 06:48 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozturert Quote
For instance when the screen is turned off I cannot see if I disabled SR or not because the LED screen on the top does not show that (because it's quite small).
.
You can see this in the viewfinder. I also programmed the lower button on the "wheel" to turn shake reduction on and off.
01-12-2017, 06:58 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
You can see this in the viewfinder. I also programmed the lower button on the "wheel" to turn shake reduction on and off.
It still is not hugely practical. The thing is, to I need to remove my eye from viewfinder to turn the function wheel and I'd like to see the change "somewhere" without me going back to viewfinder. The top LCD doesn't show that. Maybe top LCD can be programmed to show these changes when you are rotating the wheel temporarily in firmware v1.5
I don't want to assign another button to SR as it is already on function wheel.
Anyway, minor issue for some, bothering for me
01-12-2017, 07:28 AM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Karmaya Quote
My favorite subjects to photograph are landscape, wildlife, macros, and pets. While I don't really like shooting people, my family often expects me to be the photographer at events
Landscape


Pseudo macro


Pets


Do squirrels count as wildlife?


Family gatherings... not my family but somebody's.


Personally, coming from another system, I'd be seriously concerned about the cost of the glass. I was shooting Pentax before and already had 11 compatable lenses, and I still ended up spending 3k to get the less than capability I had with my K-3, and I'm still lacking an ultra-wide for landscape, because the only current option is over $2k, just by itself. There simply is nothing like my Sigma 8-16. Pentax has never made a lens like that, and Sigma has stopped supporting Pentax. This is particularly notable for wildlife. For my K-3 APS-c I have a handy little DA* 200 ƒ2.8, a mere pound an a half. The equivalent on the K-1 is a Tamron 300mm ƒ2.8 lens that weighs 6 pounds. You probably want to keep your 7D for wildlife.

There are a host of older lenses still available, I have an FA 50 macro that is just really nice on the K-1. But there is no economy starter lens for the camera, the closest being the DFA 28-105 but at $700 CAD it's twice the cost of what you'd expect a kit type lens to be. The DA 50 1.8, DA 35 2.4 and 40XS 2.8 are your economy options.

Having gone through years of existence with nothing but a Spotmatic and a 50 I understand that can work. In the digital era I've become so spoiled I expect to have every focal length available all the time. It all depends on what you can live with. And middle of the road quality ultra-wides are completely lacking in the new market, and scarce as hen's teeth in the used market.

Last edited by normhead; 01-12-2017 at 08:44 AM.
01-12-2017, 08:55 AM   #44
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The cost of the glass is high, period - that's not a Pentax thing. And the Pentax DA* 300mm f/4 is just over $1000, less than the Canon or Nikon (the new Nikon 300 f/4 is $2000. by the way). And the D FA 20-105 is worth every penny.
01-12-2017, 09:31 AM   #45
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I made the jump to Pentax many years back (red Pentax K-x), but I didn't have any glass (came from a P&S), also have a red Pentax K-30 and now a K-70.
I have ( and will recommend) going through the rental method of try before you buy. I have rented the 18-135mm lens for a vacation, and bought one afterwards.

Pentax doesn't really carry anything in stores anymore (unless you live in NYC or another country).
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