Using a Grey Card and Studio Strobes with K-1

dcpropilot · 01-12-2017, 11:31 AM

I am trying to set my K-1 to white balance with the PCB Einstein with a softbox. When I go to custom white balance and press shutter to 'adjust' I get the following message after pressing the shutter while focusing and metering on the grey card:

"The operation could not be completed correctly"

Can anyone help me with any suggestions on making this work?
Thanks

enoeske · 01-12-2017, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by dcpropilot

I am trying to set my K-1 to white balance with the PCB Einstein with a softbox. When I go to custom white balance and press shutter to 'adjust' I get the following message after pressing the shutter while focusing and metering on the grey card:

"The operation could not be completed correctly"

Can anyone help me with any suggestions on making this work?
Thanks

White balance can't be set if the exposure is blown out. Could that be the issue? Do you have the exposure set first?

dcpropilot · 01-12-2017, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by enoeske

White balance can't be set if the exposure is blown out. Could that be the issue? Do you have the exposure set first?

I am metering with a light meter, so I don't believe the exposure being blown out is the issue.

enoeske · 01-12-2017, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by dcpropilot

I am metering with a light meter, so I don't believe the exposure being blown out is the issue.

can you post an image of what the gray card looks like currently?

**Digitalis** · 01-12-2017, 05:07 PM

Appropriate WB for Einsteins is 5500K, enter that in manually and if you shoot raw you can fine-tune things from there.

Winder · 01-12-2017, 05:46 PM

Yes. My Einstein hits 5500-5600 (depending on power setting) every time. In color mode its very consistent.

dcpropilot · 01-12-2017, 06:40 PM - **1 Like**

Thanks, I am able to get the reading now. I found out that exposure on the Einstein wasn't bumped up enough for the K-1, hence the 'could not be completed' message when it was trying to get a measurement. I wonder if there is a way to determine the adjusted Kelvin # that the camera is adjusting to. What I am essentially trying to do is get a reading with each modifier attached (I have a few different ones) to the Einstein so that I can have a go-to Kelvin # I could plug in depending on the modifier. Or as Digitalis said, just fine tune the raw photos in PP (in my case, lightroom). Not sure what'll be the easier/best method. Still experimenting. I absolutely love my Einstein and Alien Bees with the cyber commander off camera system.

---------- Post added 01-12-2017 at 09:29 PM ----------

So, I went into lightroom and used the white balance selector and selected the grey card in the first photo. The adjusted white balance is 5750 with the particular modifier I used. Looks really good. I think I'm set.

Last edited by dcpropilot; 01-12-2017 at 06:55 PM.

Wheatfield · 01-12-2017, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by dcpropilot

I am trying to set my K-1 to white balance with the PCB Einstein with a softbox. When I go to custom white balance and press shutter to 'adjust' I get the following message after pressing the shutter while focusing and metering on the grey card:

"The operation could not be completed correctly"

Can anyone help me with any suggestions on making this work?
Thanks

Use the white side of the card for setting white balance.

**Digitalis** · 01-13-2017, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Use the white side of the card for setting white balance.

Using the grey side is just as effective for setting WB, In certain instances [such as for low key work] using middle grey for WB is preferable to using white.

All the camera is measuring for WB is chroma shift from a set tonal target, the luminance value of said target is largely immaterial*

*though chroma noise, which is increasingly prominent in low tonal values can make a mess of the accuracy of these measurements, in such circumstances it is better to establish WB from an averaged area with a homogeneous tonal value.

Unregistered User 8 · 01-13-2017, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Use the white side of the card for setting white balance.

I got it !!!

Wheatfield · 01-13-2017, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

Using the grey side is just as effective for setting WB, In certain instances [such as for low key work] using middle grey for WB is preferable to using white.

All the camera is measuring for WB is chroma shift from a set tonal target, the luminance value of said target is largely immaterial*

*though chroma noise, which is increasingly prominent in low tonal values can make a mess of the accuracy of these measurements, in such circumstances it is better to establish WB from an averaged area with a homogeneous tonal value.

The operation couldn't be completed. This tells me that there is a high probability that the sensor didn't get enough signal to set WB.
I've never seen any difference in WB setting from the grey side to the white side, other than it doesn't take as much light to get WB from the white side.

**Digitalis** · 01-14-2017, 04:20 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Wheatfield

The operation couldn't be completed. This tells me that there is a high probability that the sensor didn't get enough signal to set WB.

the white balance target was probably too small for the camera to establish WB value. OR the value was outside the cameras WB range.

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I've never seen any difference in WB setting from the grey side to the white side

When you are trying to maintain tonal relationships of the final image, using the grey side is beneficial* as you don't need to change the lighting in low key images. When making a WB reference image for the camera automatically it will demand the target be illuminated with a luminosity at or above 128 - which is a bit silly.

*you can still use the white side for low key, I just prefer to use 18% grey as that becomes a tonal reference when I use flash metering with film.

01-12-2017, 11:31 AM	#1
dcpropilot Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Vermont Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 941	Using a Grey Card and Studio Strobes with K-1 I am trying to set my K-1 to white balance with the PCB Einstein with a softbox. When I go to custom white balance and press shutter to 'adjust' I get the following message after pressing the shutter while focusing and metering on the grey card: "The operation could not be completed correctly" Can anyone help me with any suggestions on making this work? Thanks

01-13-2017, 02:31 AM	#9
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Wheatfield Use the white side of the card for setting white balance. Using the grey side is just as effective for setting WB, In certain instances [such as for low key work] using middle grey for WB is preferable to using white. All the camera is measuring for WB is chroma shift from a set tonal target, the luminance value of said target is largely immaterial* though chroma noise, which is increasingly prominent in low tonal values can make a mess of the accuracy of these measurements, in such circumstances it is better to establish WB from an averaged area with a homogeneous tonal value. Last edited by Digitalis; 01-13-2017 at 02:43 AM.*

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01-12-2017, 11:36 AM	#2
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by dcpropilot I am trying to set my K-1 to white balance with the PCB Einstein with a softbox. When I go to custom white balance and press shutter to 'adjust' I get the following message after pressing the shutter while focusing and metering on the grey card: "The operation could not be completed correctly" Can anyone help me with any suggestions on making this work? Thanks White balance can't be set if the exposure is blown out. Could that be the issue? Do you have the exposure set first?

01-12-2017, 11:41 AM	#3
dcpropilot Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Vermont Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 941 Original Poster	Originally posted by enoeske White balance can't be set if the exposure is blown out. Could that be the issue? Do you have the exposure set first? I am metering with a light meter, so I don't believe the exposure being blown out is the issue.

01-12-2017, 12:40 PM	#4
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by dcpropilot I am metering with a light meter, so I don't believe the exposure being blown out is the issue. can you post an image of what the gray card looks like currently?

01-12-2017, 05:07 PM	#5
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Appropriate WB for Einsteins is 5500K, enter that in manually and if you shoot raw you can fine-tune things from there.

01-12-2017, 05:46 PM	#6
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Yes. My Einstein hits 5500-5600 (depending on power setting) every time. In color mode its very consistent.

01-12-2017, 06:40 PM - 1 Like	#7
dcpropilot Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Vermont Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 941 Original Poster	Thanks, I am able to get the reading now. I found out that exposure on the Einstein wasn't bumped up enough for the K-1, hence the 'could not be completed' message when it was trying to get a measurement. I wonder if there is a way to determine the adjusted Kelvin # that the camera is adjusting to. What I am essentially trying to do is get a reading with each modifier attached (I have a few different ones) to the Einstein so that I can have a go-to Kelvin # I could plug in depending on the modifier. Or as Digitalis said, just fine tune the raw photos in PP (in my case, lightroom). Not sure what'll be the easier/best method. Still experimenting. I absolutely love my Einstein and Alien Bees with the cyber commander off camera system. ---------- Post added 01-12-2017 at 09:29 PM ---------- So, I went into lightroom and used the white balance selector and selected the grey card in the first photo. The adjusted white balance is 5750 with the particular modifier I used. Looks really good. I think I'm set. Last edited by dcpropilot; 01-12-2017 at 06:55 PM.

01-12-2017, 08:06 PM	#8
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by dcpropilot I am trying to set my K-1 to white balance with the PCB Einstein with a softbox. When I go to custom white balance and press shutter to 'adjust' I get the following message after pressing the shutter while focusing and metering on the grey card: "The operation could not be completed correctly" Can anyone help me with any suggestions on making this work? Thanks Use the white side of the card for setting white balance.

01-13-2017, 04:35 AM	#10
Unregistered User 8 Closed Account Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,694	Originally posted by Wheatfield Use the white side of the card for setting white balance. I got it !!!

01-13-2017, 07:32 PM	#11
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by Digitalis Using the grey side is just as effective for setting WB, In certain instances [such as for low key work] using middle grey for WB is preferable to using white. All the camera is measuring for WB is chroma shift from a set tonal target, the luminance value of said target is largely immaterial* *though chroma noise, which is increasingly prominent in low tonal values can make a mess of the accuracy of these measurements, in such circumstances it is better to establish WB from an averaged area with a homogeneous tonal value. The operation couldn't be completed. This tells me that there is a high probability that the sensor didn't get enough signal to set WB. I've never seen any difference in WB setting from the grey side to the white side, other than it doesn't take as much light to get WB from the white side.

01-14-2017, 04:20 AM - 1 Like	#12
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Wheatfield The operation couldn't be completed. This tells me that there is a high probability that the sensor didn't get enough signal to set WB. the white balance target was probably too small for the camera to establish WB value. OR the value was outside the cameras WB range. Originally posted by Wheatfield I've never seen any difference in WB setting from the grey side to the white side When you are trying to maintain tonal relationships of the final image, using the grey side is beneficial* as you don't need to change the lighting in low key images. When making a WB reference image for the camera automatically it will demand the target be illuminated with a luminosity at or above 128 - which is a bit silly. *you can still use the white side for low key, I just prefer to use 18% grey as that becomes a tonal reference when I use flash metering with film.