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02-14-2017, 02:20 PM   #1
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Do Batteries make a difference? Maybe...

So, I ordered a pair of wasabi D-LI90 batteries for my K-1. I had been using the generic spares from my K-5 and the 1 new battery that came with my K-1.

I have no way to prove or scientifically test this, but I would swear the camera performance is snappier with the new Wasabi's, even more so than the stock K-1 battery.

When I say snappier, I mean the over all camera performance just seems better. A/F seems quicker and more locked, even the shutter or mirror return seems to sound/feel more abrupt. Am I crazy?

Looking at the batteries, the new ones are higher rated at 2300 opposed to 1900 like the stock units. Could this be it? And... can this extra capacity hurt the camera? Or the charger? The Wasabi's came with their own charger, so i am only charging them in that charger, and the K-1 battery in the Pentax charger.

Just curious if I am alone on this one... because if I am not, this is a pretty big deal, no?
Eric

02-14-2017, 02:44 PM   #2
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Capacity isn't going to make a difference. Voltage might,but that should be identical to the stock battery, and the camera is only going to accept juice at the rate it wants to accept it at.

If you really wanted to test it, you could take off the lens and use a gopro to record the shutter in slow motion and take 10 seconds of 1/1000 or whatever speed photos (use low quality jpg so your buffer doesn't fill up) with either battery. You'd have both the base number of photos taken and a recording that shows time between shots with otherwise identical settings.
02-14-2017, 03:07 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by narual Quote
Capacity isn't going to make a difference. Voltage might,but that should be identical to the stock battery, and the camera is only going to accept juice at the rate it wants to accept it at.

If you really wanted to test it, you could take off the lens and use a gopro to record the shutter in slow motion and take 10 seconds of 1/1000 or whatever speed photos (use low quality jpg so your buffer doesn't fill up) with either battery. You'd have both the base number of photos taken and a recording that shows time between shots with otherwise identical settings.
Yeah, I get that, and clock cycles are usually controlled by multipliers w/regards to voltage...but the K-1 is also made up of a bunch of motors and actuators. Like replacing a 400amp battery on your 4cyl toyota with a 800 amp battery. The 800amp battery will spin it like a top.

I fly model airplanes, and this site comes to mind about the relationship with battery C rating and motor performance:

A Guide to Understanding LiPo Batteries ? Roger's Hobby Center

Thoughts?
Eric
02-14-2017, 03:30 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
Yeah, I get that, and clock cycles are usually controlled by multipliers w/regards to voltage...but the K-1 is also made up of a bunch of motors and actuators. Like replacing a 400amp battery on your 4cyl toyota with a 800 amp battery. The 800amp battery will spin it like a top.

I fly model airplanes, and this site comes to mind about the relationship with battery C rating and motor performance:

A Guide to Understanding LiPo Batteries ? Roger's Hobby Center

Thoughts?
Eric

Well... AFAIK electric engines rev up mainly with changes in tension, not in current.
There was discussion on using rechargeable CR-V3 lithium batteries (supposedly voltage-regulated at 3V, actually more like 3.2 to 3.4V) instead of disposable ones on the K100Ds, and the AF motor was indeed snappier... before the battery almost fried the electronics in the camera.
see here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/371626-post34.html

OTOH your will have a greater capacity, but at the same tension, and regarding this matter, I'd like to see firsthand a Chinese battery, or a battery tout court for that matter, that delivered on its promises... even quality rechargeable Ni-MH AA batteries rarely reach their advertised 2300, 2500 mAh.

Edit: in your link there is a yellow box talking about "nominal voltage"... if you've seen at least one discharge plot (Ah or time on X axis, V on Y axis), you'd have noticed that the tension decreases during the discharge, leading to your model engine spinning faster with a full battery, and progressively sluggish as the battery drains (it's not linear however: drops fast at the beginning, holds semi-steady, drops like a rock at the end).


Last edited by LensBeginner; 02-14-2017 at 03:46 PM.
02-14-2017, 03:39 PM   #5
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The L-190 is great in a K-01, but ive found it pretty ordinary in the K1.I use my Brick as a spare battery carrier in the K1 bag, so swap batteries when needed.
02-14-2017, 04:25 PM   #6
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Hasn't every Pentax since the spotmatic had built in circuitry to regulate the voltage? I don't think your electric motor comparison works here.
02-14-2017, 06:27 PM   #7
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All digital cameras/electronic devices made today have boost regulators built into them. The boost converter make sure the voltage is high enough For the output regulator that powers the electronic device. The output voltage Is highly regulated for the internal electronics, motors included. The voltage/current level of the batteries do not have an effect on the overall performance of the camera. Howeverthe life of the battery can be affected by the current within that battery. A properly charged battery will have a longer life, But will not affect the operation of the electronic device being used.

02-14-2017, 07:05 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by promacjoe Quote
All digital cameras/electronic devices made today have boost regulators built into them. The boost converter make sure the voltage is high enough For the output regulator that powers the electronic device. The output voltage Is highly regulated for the internal electronics, motors included. The voltage/current level of the batteries do not have an effect on the overall performance of the camera. Howeverthe life of the battery can be affected by the current within that battery. A properly charged battery will have a longer life, But will not affect the operation of the electronic device being used.
I've built regulators before, but nothing complex. Some are ratio voltage drops like ac xfrmrs, 10-1 to bring 120v down to 12v then then flip it to dc...simple dc circuits like tube amps just use big high wattage dropping resistors. Simple circuits dont really regulate they just attenuate, which is why you can run a tube amp at 90 volts off a variac and it will still work but will muddy the tone a bit. I guess I really just wasn't sure if all areas within the camera were fully regulated or some areas just attenuated, since the battery source is fairly constant to begin with. Or if some circuts got priority during voltage /current drops or had more boost/capacitance reserve over other circuits. When a digital circuit has an extreme amount of variables, it becomes analogous to an analog circuit, heh heh.
Eric
02-14-2017, 08:37 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
...When I say snappier, I mean the over all camera performance just seems better. A/F seems quicker and more locked, even the shutter or mirror return seems to sound/feel more abrupt. Am I crazy?...
Not crazy but maybe hallucinating. The extra mAh (2300 vs 1900) you mention will help the batteries go longer between recharges but won't speed up the camera. If you have a defective old battery, that could theoretically slow down the camera, although the camera will shut off due to a drained battery before the voltage gets so low that it noticeably slows performance.

FYI, the Wasabi batteries are good. I bought a package of 2 batteries plus charger 4 years ago and used them in rotation with my stock Pentax K-5 battery. They still work well.

The Wasabi charger is more convenient than the Pentax charger; Wasabi uses a folding wall plug instead of the awkward Pentax long cord, plus it can be charged from a 12V car socket during road trips. Be advised that the Wasabi charger has one less contact than the Pentax charger and might (unconfirmed) have more risk of overcharging batteries. I use the Pentax charger at home with the Wasabi for travel.
02-14-2017, 09:24 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Not crazy but maybe hallucinating. The extra mAh (2300 vs 1900) you mention will help the batteries go longer between recharges but won't speed up the camera. If you have a defective old battery, that could theoretically slow down the camera, although the camera will shut off due to a drained battery before the voltage gets so low that it noticeably slows performance.

FYI, the Wasabi batteries are good. I bought a package of 2 batteries plus charger 4 years ago and used them in rotation with my stock Pentax K-5 battery. They still work well.

The Wasabi charger is more convenient than the Pentax charger; Wasabi uses a folding wall plug instead of the awkward Pentax long cord, plus it can be charged from a 12V car socket during road trips. Be advised that the Wasabi charger has one less contact than the Pentax charger and might (unconfirmed) have more risk of overcharging batteries. I use the Pentax charger at home with the Wasabi for travel.
Heh, you are no doubt correct... prolly the same level of holucinating we see with firmware updates and we think the performance has improved. Hey, PT Barnum always proved half the battle was having the mark wanting to believe.

Thanks for all the replies.
02-14-2017, 09:50 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
I've built regulators before, but nothing complex. Some are ratio voltage drops like ac xfrmrs, 10-1 to bring 120v down to 12v then then flip it to dc...simple dc circuits like tube amps just use big high wattage dropping resistors. Simple circuits dont really regulate they just attenuate, which is why you can run a tube amp at 90 volts off a variac and it will still work but will muddy the tone a bit. I guess I really just wasn't sure if all areas within the camera were fully regulated or some areas just attenuated, since the battery source is fairly constant to begin with. Or if some circuts got priority during voltage /current drops or had more boost/capacitance reserve over other circuits. When a digital circuit has an extreme amount of variables, it becomes analogous to an analog circuit, heh heh.
Eric
Voltage dividers and current drop resistors are very Inefficient. Most of the energy is lost in heat. Today's electronics need high-efficiency PWM regulators. They also need to use most of the available energy in the battery, or at least down to the battery's minimum voltage level. For instance a 10 to 1 voltage divider may lose 90% of its power through Heat. Maybe more depending on the circuit. Your camera battery would not last very long under those conditions. today's PWM regulators are as much as 98% efficient. Depending on how they are set up. Available voltage, current and frequency all play a part in how efficient the regulator is. Cameras, cell phones, portable computers, all electronic devices need to be as efficient as possible for long battery life. Even many tactical flashlights Use voltage regulators, So they can pull as much power as possible out of the battery. and by the way a variac Is a variable transformer. Used with AC input power only. Can be rectified and filtered for DC output. Much more efficient than a voltage divider. But still not as efficient as a PWM regulator.

Last edited by promacjoe; 02-14-2017 at 10:21 PM.
02-14-2017, 09:59 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by promacjoe Quote
Voltage dividers and current drop resistors are very Inefficient. Most of the energy is lost in heat. Today's electronics need high-efficiency PWM regulators. They also need to use most of the available energy in the battery, or at least down to the battery's minimum voltage level. For instance a 10 to 1 voltage divider may lose 90% of its power through Heat. Maybe more depending on the circuit. Your camera battery would not last very long under those conditions. today's PWM regulators are as much as 98% efficient. Depending on how they are set up. Available voltage, current and frequency all play a part in how efficient the regulator is. Cameras, cell phones, portable computers, all electronic devices need to be as efficient as possible for long battery life. Even many tactical flashlights Use voltage regulators, So they can pull as much power as possible out of the battery. and by the way a variac Is a variable transformer. Used with AC input power only. Can be rectified and filtered for DC output. Much more efficient than a voltage divider. But still not as efficient as a PWM regulator.
If everything is bolded, nothing is?
02-14-2017, 10:26 PM   #13
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I did not select bold. when I type the message it was not in bold. And all of the messages looked the same, at least on my computer. but even still I tried to go in and correct it. It did not seem to make a difference.

Last edited by promacjoe; 02-14-2017 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Misspelled word
02-14-2017, 10:48 PM   #14
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Another interesting test would be comparing the performance of the camera when batteries are used, vs using the K-AC132 AC Adapter (or third-party AC adapters) to power the camera.

The third-party 'HQRP' brand adapter available from Amazon and elsewhere says it supplies 8.3V and 2A. Sounds like a lot of juice - probably more than a 2300 mAh battery could supply (certainly continuously).
02-14-2017, 10:53 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by promacjoe Quote
Voltage dividers and current drop resistors are very Inefficient.
It is inefficient, but in the AC powered devices the OP is referring to, that's how they did things back then. I restore vintage amplifiers and receivers professionally. In retrospect, the energy they "wasted" is almost sinful. That's just the way they rolled. Some receivers use about 15 Watts worth of incandescent lamps just to light up the AM/FM dial plate. They look awfully good, though!
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