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08-12-2017, 10:34 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
Tell me one useful feature/ property they have that would make anyone switch brand? 30+ MPx?
I like so much to read people assuming that market share is related to camera specs. Think twice.

08-12-2017, 10:52 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I like so much to read people assuming that market share is related to camera specs. Think twice.

Hello,


There' s only so much you can rely on marketing power (when you actually sell c*ap) ; except apple, cause that' s something else.
Market hasn' t shifted in Pentax' s direction cause they are not interesting and are unoriginal. Look at Sony with its mirrorles platform; they are on the map because of it.
Pentax, polishes. At least they have ergonomic cameras (as a real compliment) .



All the best!
08-12-2017, 11:12 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
There' s only so much you can rely on marketing power (when you actually sell c*ap) ; except apple, cause that' s something else.
Yes. Except for Canon, all other camera makers don't make sensors and processors, they all have the choice to buy those components. If there is any difference as perceived by the users, is essentially the user interface, all the rest in the mind of the customer. Take photos in RAW with Sony, Nikon and Pentax, can't tell the difference +-10%. Pentax, I'll tell you what, they do the same as others +- a few different features, but they do it 2 to 4 years later, less marketing budget, and not significantly cheaper, that's the fast follower approach, the worse that can be done for a business to be successful... but, from a customer invested in k mount standpoint, wait a couple of years and you get the same as everyone else. BTW, I know Nikon users still using a D700 and Canon pro using 10 years old Canon gear that is inferior than current Pentax gear, and they make lots of money.
08-13-2017, 07:56 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Yes. Except for Canon, all other camera makers don't make sensors and processors, they all have the choice to buy those components. If there is any difference as perceived by the users, is essentially the user interface, all the rest in the mind of the customer. Take photos in RAW with Sony, Nikon and Pentax, can't tell the difference +-10%. Pentax, I'll tell you what, they do the same as others +- a few different features, but they do it 2 to 4 years later, less marketing budget, and not significantly cheaper, that's the fast follower approach, the worse that can be done for a business to be successful... but, from a customer invested in k mount standpoint, wait a couple of years and you get the same as everyone else. BTW, I know Nikon users still using a D700 and Canon pro using 10 years old Canon gear that is inferior than current Pentax gear, and they make lots of money.


Hello,


So you are basically telling me what I said, MPx' s don' t count. Ask yourself what counted in the case of Fuji for people to get excited, or for Sony to become such a big contender to Nikon and Canon.
Theta is a Gimmick. I see it in the `Selfie stick` department. Interesting pictures (if done in good places) , but not photography department (in my opinion) .


All the best!

08-13-2017, 08:48 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
So you are basically telling me what I said, MPx' s don' t count. Ask yourself what counted in the case of Fuji for people to get excited, or for Sony to become such a big contender to Nikon and Canon. Theta is a Gimmick. I see it in the `Selfie stick` department. Interesting pictures (if done in good places) , but not photography department (in my opinion) .
I'm saying that Pentax offers more of less the same as others , so, there is not point for Canon / Nikon users to buy a Pentax DSLR, and there is no point for Pentax users (except for lenses or AF) to buy a Canon or Nikon DSLR.
However, a number of Pentaxians having gotten themselves a Fuji or Sony mirrorless, sometimes aside with a Pentax K1 (using both).
08-13-2017, 11:40 PM - 1 Like   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I'd still be using a Sony for FF. It hardly comes out of the cupboard now I've got a K-1.
That's good to hear you like the K-1 over the Sony.
I've gotten the FF itch and the Sony A7 is looking mighty tempting at under 1k new.......but the K-1 option has kept me from being certain which to go with. I really want an EVF for easy manual focus....but the K-1 looks like a beast. decisions....
08-14-2017, 01:42 AM - 1 Like   #67
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If there was no K-1, I probably would have stayed with Pentax APS-C. The KP in particular is a great unit, but I'm still very happy with the output I can get from the K-3.

That said, I did buy a 645Z kit recently, despite being delighted with my K-1, as the price was too good to refuse. I will probably sell it soon though, as the gains for me are not worth the cost, size and weight.

As an aside - like Norm I have vacillated between APS-C and FF for travel. I took the KP (with DA10-17, DA15, DA21, FA31, DA35 macro, FA43, DA*55, FA77 and DA55-300) to Italy in June, and the K-1 on an even more recent cruise from China to Japan and back. I much preferred the experience of using the K-1 and full frame lenses (DFA15-30, FA31, DA*55, FA77, DFA100 and DA*300), despite the extra weight.

Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 08-14-2017 at 04:50 AM.
08-15-2017, 04:47 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
I will probably sell it soon though, as the gains for me are not worth the cost, size and weight.
QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
I much preferred the experience of using the K-1 and full frame lenses (DFA15-30, FA31, DA*55, FA77, DFA100 and DA*300), despite the extra weight.
:-) You will probably sell your K1 as the gains for you are not worth the cost, size and weight but you much preferred the experience of using K1 and full frame lenses. Did I understand something wrong?

08-15-2017, 06:53 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Did I understand something wrong?
Yes. You misunderstood something.
08-19-2017, 03:10 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
Not to be a party pooper, and not to be the eye of true beauty, but looking at some of the pictures taken with the K1 (some in this thread, some in another one) , all I can say is that it sure as hell missed the `professional market` .
I good professional can take great pictures with a point and shoot. A bad photographer can take bad pictures with the best camera ever made.

There ae some very accomplished pros using K-1s. It kind of kills your assessment right out of the gate. Not all pro gear requires tracking moving subjects. I would expect if you had any formal photographic training you'd understand that.
08-19-2017, 10:24 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I good professional can take great pictures with a point and shoot. A bad photographer can take bad pictures with the best camera ever made.

There ae some very accomplished pros using K-1s. It kind of kills your assessment right out of the gate. Not all pro gear requires tracking moving subjects. I would expect if you had any formal photographic training you'd understand that.


Hello,


You missed mine. But it' s OK, you defended the K1 user to your best.
08-19-2017, 10:39 PM   #72
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Oh no! Another Boriscleto™
08-22-2017, 08:51 PM - 3 Likes   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Given that there is a K-1, and I'm considering leaving it home on my next trip, I wouldn't buy anything. Even though I own a K-1 and it's avery nice camera, I'm not convinced I wouldn't be happier with a K-P instead of a K-1. So my answer would be a K-P. As pointed out in another thread, our most appreciated image for our craft show days was taken with a 12 MP point and shoot. My opinion would be that folks who think they have to have a full frame or 36 MP to accomplish their goals are somewhat delusional, infatuated with the value of their photography and conceited in thinking anyone even wants huge copies of their prints.

There are maybe 5 guys on the forum, who do work good enough to consider for large scale printing and two of them have already bypassed the K-1 for 645 gear. SO my second answer would be, if I didn't think the k-1 was overkill, or I wanted more overkill, I'd be looking for a good price on a second hand 645D to compliment my APS-c gear. Same as before the K-1 came out. There are still a lot of folks who will brag they have to have something better than APS-c. I can't find any photographic evidence to explain why they think that however. It's all about posturing and attitude as far as I can tell.

For those, I point out I'd prefer to have an 8x10 film camera, and that's about as big is it gets. Who wants one of those snivelling little 35mm cameras. Be a man, at least go 4x5 5x7 or 6x7.

A 35mm sensor? pffft... that's not a desirable camera, that's a camera you use because you can't do better.

I will never understand people getting all snobby about 35mm, which has never been top of the heap.
Sounds pretty contemptuous of anyone who isn't a professional and buys a K-1. Aside from 36 MP, the dynamic range and SR are a gift especially to someone with a hereditary hand tremor. I probably will never print bigger than 19" x whatever print (its what my printer can accommodate) or look at my photos on anything bigger that a 27" 5K monitor. But it really just doesn't matter. When I look at my photos taken with the K-1, I smile and get a little teary. Nature and light are beautiful and the K-1 allows me to bring them home to experience again and again. I have had a K10D, a K7, a K5IIs and a K-3II over time. I have taken wonderful pictures with each of them at one time or another. But, the K-1 is special. If some Pentax lenses have pixie dust, the K-1 is the Pentax body that does as well. My thought is that we all should shoot with the kit that makes us smile when we see the results of our work. I don't think the good lord has a hierarchy in mind for experiencing joy. For some the K-1 is a work tool. For others not. Good thing for the Pentax brand that folks don't get shamed out of buying a K-1 because some folks feel that unless one is a professional he or she doesn't really need one. I have a medium format kit. If the K-1 did not exist, I might not have had the courage to give the format a try.
08-23-2017, 01:52 AM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by loveisageless Quote
Sounds pretty contemptuous of anyone who isn't a professional and buys a K-1. Aside from 36 MP, the dynamic range and SR are a gift especially to someone with a hereditary hand tremor. I probably will never print bigger than 19" x whatever print (its what my printer can accommodate) or look at my photos on anything bigger that a 27" 5K monitor. But it really just doesn't matter. When I look at my photos taken with the K-1, I smile and get a little teary. Nature and light are beautiful and the K-1 allows me to bring them home to experience again and again. I have had a K10D, a K7, a K5IIs and a K-3II over time. I have taken wonderful pictures with each of them at one time or another. But, the K-1 is special. If some Pentax lenses have pixie dust, the K-1 is the Pentax body that does as well. My thought is that we all should shoot with the kit that makes us smile when we see the results of our work. I don't think the good lord has a hierarchy in mind for experiencing joy. For some the K-1 is a work tool. For others not. Good thing for the Pentax brand that folks don't get shamed out of buying a K-1 because some folks feel that unless one is a professional he or she doesn't really need one. I have a medium format kit. If the K-1 did not exist, I might not have had the courage to give the format a try.
Well stated.
08-23-2017, 04:59 AM   #75
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QuoteQuote:
Sounds pretty contemptuous of anyone who isn't a professional and buys a K-1.
Whatever, I own a K-1. My wife still shoots with a K-5, I still shoot with a K-3 as well as the K-1. We have a 4k monitor. We don't see much difference. No one is trying to shame anyone about buying anything. I'm more concerned about folks who don't have the money feeling they have to be using a K-1 to be "top of the heap." Our work has proved in the past, we can compete with most FF images with smaller sensor gear.

There are things to appreciate using a K-1 but the cost and weight for the same Focal Length capability is quite high.

People should buy what they want. It makes no difference to me, but I'm not some kind of dreamy kid out there with a "the K-1 is the answer to all your problems." attitude.

We have many images we love taken with at least 10 cameras ,3 WR Optios, A *ist, a K100D, a K-20D, two K-5s a K-3, K-1 a XG-1, and a couple of Nikon and Sigma Foveon camera, They all bring us joy from time to time. If you have to have a K-1 for that well, that's interesting, I tend to care more about the images than the camera it was taken with, And as I said, we've shot a K-5 and K-1 side by side with the same lens (the 28-105) and we can't see difference in those images, viewed on a 4k monitor.

I haven't shot medium format since I was shooing film, but it is even more work to get a decent image than 35mm, so while you find the K-1 liberating, I've had shake reduction for my instead hands for 10 years now. Every Pentax camera but the MF format cameras have it. It sounds like the technology that's been on smaller cameras for years is really impressing you. But it's also on all the digital K cameras, not just the K-1. So I'm not even sure how that gets to be a K-1 attribute.

On an average trip, I often take 2 or 3 cameras. They all have their place. At the end of the trip, I'll have pictures I treasure from all three. In that regard, I don't see the K-1 as any more "special" than the others, and all 3 do things the other two can't. But most things, they all do.These are tools. I'm not going to be getting all gushy about one or the other. Apologies if that upsets you or if you think I'm insulting you. It's just an opinion.

But an opinion born of experience.

Last edited by normhead; 08-23-2017 at 05:42 AM.
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