Pentax K1 Questions : Live view softness (?) & Screen Loupe

sdgreen · 08-08-2017, 01:36 PM

I'm considering buying a K1 & have two questions for any K1 user, both concerning Live View:
Unfortunately I haven't seen one so I'm canvassing for opinions

1 DPReview reported that Live View is extremely soft on the K1 (their words:

Special K? Pentax K-1 Review: Digital Photography Review

I can't find any mention of this elsewhere. Has any user experienced this? This would be a major minus as it impacts manual focusing.

2 Has anyone used a screen loupe? I know the Zacuto Z Finder doesn't fit. I'm hoping this GGS Swivi will work:

GGS | Swivi S2 Foldable Viewfinder

Thanks
Stephen Green

stevebrot · 08-08-2017, 01:59 PM

Are you referring to this paragraph...

Quote:

It's also worth noting that the Live-view image preview is extremely soft, so manually focusing without Focus Peaking enabled can be a very tricky ordeal. Getting things pin-sharp is critical with the K-1's large 36MP sensor, and even more so when the Pixel Shift shooting modes are enabled.

You got me...perhaps the screen was smudged with cheek grease. If this was a user observation on this site, the conventional advice would be to enable focus peaking (a simple task using the info screen) or magnify live view for 1:1 pixel mapping at the rear LCD resolution.

Steve

biz-engineer · 08-08-2017, 02:07 PM

They added the electronic shutter in the meantime. Now, when conditions allow and the lens is sharp, we get more details than needed.

**GUB** · 08-08-2017, 02:08 PM

The screen is no different to my K01 screen. When you switch focus peaking off you often get a sense of softness till your mind accustoms itself.
I use a Swivi S3
Aftermarket LCD Viewfinder for K1 - PentaxForums.com

Adam · 08-08-2017, 02:12 PM

I think what they're possibly referring to is shutter induced vibrations, the solution is to use the new electronic shutter option. Also on some cameras it's a non issue, while on others it can be noticeable between about 1/90 and 1/180.

pschlute · 08-08-2017, 02:14 PM

Used LV many times on the k1. Have no problem obtaining critical focus using only my eyes. As Steve pointed out you can use the 100% view for ultra critical focus.

Have not felt the need to use Focus peaking or Contrast detection Af when using LV

stevebrot · 08-08-2017, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Adam

I think what they're possibly referring to is shutter induced vibrations, the solution is to use the new electronic shutter option. Also on some cameras it's a non issue, while on others it can be noticeable between about 1/90 and 1/180.

The quoted text is a little ambiguous. I took it to mean the actual live view display. Do you think they were referring to the digital DOF preview?

Either way, I have not seen the rear display quality as a common complaint on this site.

Steve

Adam · 08-08-2017, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

The quoted text is a little ambiguous. I took it to mean the actual live view display. Do you think they were referring to the digital DOF preview?

Either way, I have not seen the rear display quality as a common complaint on this site.

Steve

Originally posted by stevebrot

Either way, I have not seen the rear display quality as a common complaint on this site.

Definitely not, I'd say on the contrary the screen is quite good.

awscreo · 08-08-2017, 03:32 PM

I don't have any issues with lv. I use it for all landscape or any other tripod shots, lv with es enabled for maximum precision. One thing I wish they had is better/more customizable peaking, current one is sometimes confusing, especially with uwa lenses since a lot of an image in the distance would be in focus, judging just how much in focus it is can be a bit of a pain with peaking.

rawr · 08-08-2017, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot;4064038, quoting DPR:

It's also worth noting that the Live-view image preview is extremely soft, so manually focusing without Focus Peaking enabled can be a very tricky ordeal.

dpreview are being a bit silly, as usual. And critical of Pentax just because.

LiveView is not any 'softer' on the K-1 than it is on any other camera I've used.

LiveView viewed via the rear-LCD display of most cameras is, after all, never a HD capable display. A ~1.2 million dot rear LCD like that found on most current cameras (including the K-1, D810, D750, Canon 5D4, and Sony A7R2), is usually a mere 3:2 640x480 RGBW VGA display. The rear LCD is certainly never the same 'resolution' as one would see with a full HD or UHD computer monitor, nor can it capture the same visible detail of an optical viewfinder, or even most EVF's.

Having said all that, LiveView in the K-1 gives a photographer access to many focus aids to easily overcome any limitations of the low-res rear display, from 16X magnification of the focus target, to focus peaking, to very fast and competent face detection.

sdgreen · 08-08-2017, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Are you referring to this paragraph...

You got me...perhaps the screen was smudged with cheek grease. If this was a user observation on this site, the conventional advice would be to enable focus peaking (a simple task using the info screen) or magnify live view for 1:1 pixel mapping at the rear LCD resolution.

Steve

Yes. As I said it's the only mention of this I've seen anywhere. Eventually I'll have to find one & look for myself.

---------- Post added 08-09-17 at 01:36 AM ----------

Originally posted by biz-engineer

They added the electronic shutter in the meantime. Now, when conditions allow and the lens is sharp, we get more details than needed.

I don't really understand this. Can you elaborate?

---------- Post added 08-09-17 at 01:37 AM ----------

Originally posted by GUB

The screen is no different to my K01 screen. When you switch focus peaking off you often get a sense of softness till your mind accustoms itself.
I use a Swivi S3
Aftermarket LCD Viewfinder for K1 - PentaxForums.com

Useful to know re the loupe. Hopefully a Swivi S3 will fit too.

bavd · 08-08-2017, 06:30 PM - **2 Likes**

Well it is if you forget to pull off the protective plastic layer.....

P.S. it actually happened to me more than once.

pschlute · 08-09-2017, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by sdgreen

Originally posted by biz-engineer Quote
They added the electronic shutter in the meantime. Now, when conditions allow and the lens is sharp, we get more details than needed.
I don't really understand this. Can you elaborate?

When in LV you can opt to use ES...Electronic Shutter. The start of the exposure is now no longer controled by the first curtain, but by electrically telling the sensor to start recording the exposure. The exposure is finished by the second curtain closing in the normal way. This means that you cannot get shutter-shock induced blur in your picture (which can occur, depending on lens, in the 1/30-1/180 range) when using a tripod. As Live View obviously also captures with the mirror in the up position, ES is the best way to ensure a perfect photo when using a tripod.

08-08-2017, 01:36 PM	#1
sdgreen Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 29	Pentax K1 Questions : Live view softness (?) & Screen Loupe I'm considering buying a K1 & have two questions for any K1 user, both concerning Live View: Unfortunately I haven't seen one so I'm canvassing for opinions 1 DPReview reported that Live View is extremely soft on the K1 (their words: Special K? Pentax K-1 Review: Digital Photography Review I can't find any mention of this elsewhere. Has any user experienced this? This would be a major minus as it impacts manual focusing. 2 Has anyone used a screen loupe? I know the Zacuto Z Finder doesn't fit. I'm hoping this GGS Swivi will work: GGS \| Swivi S2 Foldable Viewfinder Thanks Stephen Green

08-08-2017, 02:12 PM	#5
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,593	I think what they're possibly referring to is shutter induced vibrations, the solution is to use the new electronic shutter option. Also on some cameras it's a non issue, while on others it can be noticeable between about 1/90 and 1/180. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

08-08-2017, 03:02 PM	#8
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,593	Originally posted by stevebrot The quoted text is a little ambiguous. I took it to mean the actual live view display. Do you think they were referring to the digital DOF preview? Either way, I have not seen the rear display quality as a common complaint on this site. Steve Originally posted by stevebrot Either way, I have not seen the rear display quality as a common complaint on this site. Definitely not, I'd say on the contrary the screen is quite good. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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08-08-2017, 01:59 PM	#2
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Are you referring to this paragraph... Quote: It's also worth noting that the Live-view image preview is extremely soft, so manually focusing without Focus Peaking enabled can be a very tricky ordeal. Getting things pin-sharp is critical with the K-1's large 36MP sensor, and even more so when the Pixel Shift shooting modes are enabled. You got me...perhaps the screen was smudged with cheek grease. If this was a user observation on this site, the conventional advice would be to enable focus peaking (a simple task using the info screen) or magnify live view for 1:1 pixel mapping at the rear LCD resolution. Steve

08-08-2017, 02:07 PM	#3
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,225	They added the electronic shutter in the meantime. Now, when conditions allow and the lens is sharp, we get more details than needed.

08-08-2017, 02:08 PM	#4
GUB Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Wanganui Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,751	The screen is no different to my K01 screen. When you switch focus peaking off you often get a sense of softness till your mind accustoms itself. I use a Swivi S3 Aftermarket LCD Viewfinder for K1 - PentaxForums.com

08-08-2017, 02:14 PM	#6
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,187	Used LV many times on the k1. Have no problem obtaining critical focus using only my eyes. As Steve pointed out you can use the 100% view for ultra critical focus. Have not felt the need to use Focus peaking or Contrast detection Af when using LV

08-08-2017, 02:44 PM	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Adam I think what they're possibly referring to is shutter induced vibrations, the solution is to use the new electronic shutter option. Also on some cameras it's a non issue, while on others it can be noticeable between about 1/90 and 1/180. The quoted text is a little ambiguous. I took it to mean the actual live view display. Do you think they were referring to the digital DOF preview? Either way, I have not seen the rear display quality as a common complaint on this site. Steve

08-08-2017, 03:32 PM	#9
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	I don't have any issues with lv. I use it for all landscape or any other tripod shots, lv with es enabled for maximum precision. One thing I wish they had is better/more customizable peaking, current one is sometimes confusing, especially with uwa lenses since a lot of an image in the distance would be in focus, judging just how much in focus it is can be a bit of a pain with peaking.

08-08-2017, 03:55 PM	#10
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by stevebrot;4064038, quoting DPR: It's also worth noting that the Live-view image preview is extremely soft, so manually focusing without Focus Peaking enabled can be a very tricky ordeal. dpreview are being a bit silly, as usual. And critical of Pentax just because. LiveView is not any 'softer' on the K-1 than it is on any other camera I've used. LiveView viewed via the rear-LCD display of most cameras is, after all, never a HD capable display. A ~1.2 million dot rear LCD like that found on most current cameras (including the K-1, D810, D750, Canon 5D4, and Sony A7R2), is usually a mere 3:2 640x480 RGBW VGA display. The rear LCD is certainly never the same 'resolution' as one would see with a full HD or UHD computer monitor, nor can it capture the same visible detail of an optical viewfinder, or even most EVF's. Having said all that, LiveView in the K-1 gives a photographer access to many focus aids to easily overcome any limitations of the low-res rear display, from 16X magnification of the focus target, to focus peaking, to very fast and competent face detection.

08-08-2017, 05:33 PM	#11
sdgreen Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 29 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot Are you referring to this paragraph... You got me...perhaps the screen was smudged with cheek grease. If this was a user observation on this site, the conventional advice would be to enable focus peaking (a simple task using the info screen) or magnify live view for 1:1 pixel mapping at the rear LCD resolution. Steve Yes. As I said it's the only mention of this I've seen anywhere. Eventually I'll have to find one & look for myself. ---------- Post added 08-09-17 at 01:36 AM ---------- Originally posted by biz-engineer They added the electronic shutter in the meantime. Now, when conditions allow and the lens is sharp, we get more details than needed. I don't really understand this. Can you elaborate? ---------- Post added 08-09-17 at 01:37 AM ---------- Originally posted by GUB The screen is no different to my K01 screen. When you switch focus peaking off you often get a sense of softness till your mind accustoms itself. I use a Swivi S3 Aftermarket LCD Viewfinder for K1 - PentaxForums.com Useful to know re the loupe. Hopefully a Swivi S3 will fit too.

08-08-2017, 06:30 PM - 2 Likes	#12
bavd Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Almere (NL) Posts: 96	Well it is if you forget to pull off the protective plastic layer..... P.S. it actually happened to me more than once.

08-09-2017, 02:52 AM	#13
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,187	Originally posted by sdgreen Originally posted by biz-engineer Quote They added the electronic shutter in the meantime. Now, when conditions allow and the lens is sharp, we get more details than needed. I don't really understand this. Can you elaborate? When in LV you can opt to use ES...Electronic Shutter. The start of the exposure is now no longer controled by the first curtain, but by electrically telling the sensor to start recording the exposure. The exposure is finished by the second curtain closing in the normal way. This means that you cannot get shutter-shock induced blur in your picture (which can occur, depending on lens, in the 1/30-1/180 range) when using a tripod. As Live View obviously also captures with the mirror in the up position, ES is the best way to ensure a perfect photo when using a tripod.

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