[DSLRnovice]

As far as I can tell, 1/90th sec has the most vibration on my K-1 when on a tripod. I doubt that the effect is visible unless looking at the computer monitor @ 100%.

What fascinates me is that when handholding and using shake reduction, I got sharper pictures at 1/8th, 1/15th and 1/20th with the 28-105 at 60mm, than at 1/60th and 1/90th. I suppose the SR has more time to compensate for movement at the slower speeds? And most likely SR cannot work fast enough to compensate for shutter vibration.

However, it is obviously difficult to be consistent with hand-holding in a test. My body could move differently with each shot, and even enough to change the focus slightly.

But this knowledge could change my shooting habits significantly. When hand-holding I have always deferred to the rule of dividing the second by the focal length of the lens being used when possible. With the K-1 I have more options with both better high ISO and SR. It just goes against my grain to choose a slower shutter speed when the light allows for a faster one.

I will not complain that static subjects can now be sharp in less light, or that I can now blur waterfalls without a tripod!

[Adam]

In the K-1's case the blur is induced by the shutter, which is something the SR cannot compensate for. To make things even worse, the degree of the blur seems to vary from camera to camera, but as you correctly observed, it's best to avoid those shutter speeds for critical shots.

[Heebie]

Is it the shutter or the mirror movement you're having problems with? There's a setting to, at least from live mode, ensure that the mirror doesn't move.
Is it a cheap tripod that's getting blown around by a breeze? (the K-1 is a heavy piece of equipment, so a cheap tripod will want to flex beneath it.)
I don't recall a setting to tell the K-1 to pull the mirror up, then wait before firing the shutter, but it would be a useful thing for them to add to the firmware.

[gaweidert]

I am with Adam on this. My K1 does the same thing. My only real complaint with the camera.

[Snakeisthestuff]

In the K-1's case the blur is induced by the shutter, which is something the SR cannot compensate for. To make things even worse, the degree of the blur seems to vary from camera to camera, but as you correctly observed, it's best to avoid those shutter speeds for critical shots.

I am not so sure about that. I noticed when I started using my K-1 that I got improvements with SR on at shutter speeds which should be fine for hand holding without SR, like 1/200 s with a 35mm lens.
Either hand-holding has gotten awfully more difficult with this 36MP sensor, compared to i.e. the K20D I used before, or maybe the SR is helping with shutter shock also (I actually thought that is intentional by Pentax)?

Why do you think SR cannot compensate for that, is shutter-shock not just another external induced motion which will be automatically compensated by SR, is there maybe a technical limitation?

[DSLRnovice]

Is it the shutter or the mirror movement you're having problems with? There's a setting to, at least from live mode, ensure that the mirror doesn't move.
Is it a cheap tripod that's getting blown around by a breeze? (the K-1 is a heavy piece of equipment, so a cheap tripod will want to flex beneath it.)
I don't recall a setting to tell the K-1 to pull the mirror up, then wait before firing the shutter, but it would be a useful thing for them to add to the firmware.

The tripod I use is a Bogen 3001, which easily supported my Medium Format RZ67. When I want the best IQ with the K-1, I use this tripod with a cable release, and Mirror Up or 2 second delay which raises the mirror before exposure. I have not tested all lens and shutter speed combinations, but in several instances I could tell the differences between Live View with ES and normal view without ES at 1/90th sec.

The differences were not great. It would be interesting to try different things like hanging the camera bag from the tripod head to stabilize it. But the Electronic Shutter with MU and Pixel Shift when appropriate are nice options to have.

[pschlute]

From my experience with the K1:

On a tripod...with a long lens....shutter shock will affect the picture in the 1/30-1/200 range. Mirror up does not help. What will eliminate the problem is to use LV with Electronic shutter if using those speeds. Smaller lenses (D-FA 24-70) ..I dont see any problems.

Hand-held..... I dont see shutter shock in any of my pictures in this shutter range. (note I do not have the 28-105mm)

The Lens 28-105..... I have seen many posts about poor images using this lens handheld with the K1. The common factor seems to be the shutter range 1/30-1/200 and shutter shock. I don't have it so cannot comment further, but urge you to try another lens and report back.

[DSLRnovice]

The manual states that SR is turned off when self timer or MU is used. Somewhere I might have read that SR should not be used when the camera is on a tripod or other support. Am I correct in this?

In the film days we used various ways to stabilize the camera while hand-holding. I wonder if leaning against a solid object, or using a mini tripod pressed against the chest would help dampen shutter shock in conjuction with SR on.

[normhead]

I got sharper pictures at 1/8th, 1/15th and 1/20th with the 28-105 at 60mm, than at 1/60th and 1/90th.

If the shutter speed cannot deal with shutter shock, the longer the shutter is open, the more time it has to "overwrite" with transmitted light that has been transmitted with more stability. This must be a function of how long the shutter shock lasts and what percentage of the image is recorded while the camera is vibrating.

With higher shutter speeds, it's possible the the shock is neutralized because the camera is only recording through a very small portion of the shutter caused vibration.


Just a guess.

The manual states that SR is turned off when self timer or MU is used. Somewhere I might have read that SR should not be used when the camera is on a tripod or other support. Am I correct in this?

That hasn't been true (the part about the manual) since the K-5.

[pschlute]

The manual states that SR is turned off when self timer or MU is used. Somewhere I might have read that SR should not be used when the camera is on a tripod or other support. Am I correct in this?

Although normhead is correct in that the manual does not explicitly say it should be turned off in those circumstances, the default for timer or remote triggering is for SR to be off, so it is implicit. This also is in agreement with what many users have been doing for years.

In the film days we used various ways to stabilize the camera while hand-holding. I wonder if leaning against a solid object, or using a mini tripod pressed against the chest would help dampen shutter shock in conjuction with SR on

I would try a different lens to the 28-105 and see what results you get.

---------- Post added 09-09-2017 at 09:53 PM ----------

If the shutter speed cannot deal with shutter shock, the longer the shutter is open, the more time it has to "overwrite" with transmitted light that has been transmitted with more stability. This must be a function of how long the shutter shock lasts and what percentage of the image is recorded while the camera is vibrating.

With higher shutter speeds, it's possible the the shock is neutralized because the camera is only recording through a very small portion of the shutter caused vibration.

Exactly my understanding too

[Adam]

I am not so sure about that. I noticed when I started using my K-1 that I got improvements with SR on at shutter speeds which should be fine for hand holding without SR, like 1/200 s with a 35mm lens.
Either hand-holding has gotten awfully more difficult with this 36MP sensor, compared to i.e. the K20D I used before, or maybe the SR is helping with shutter shock also (I actually thought that is intentional by Pentax)?

Why do you think SR cannot compensate for that, is shutter-shock not just another external induced motion which will be automatically compensated by SR, is there maybe a technical limitation?

There is a long and in-depth thread specifically on the shutter shock issue. Fundamentally it's a design defect / QC issue affecting the shutter mechanism. One of my K-1's is perfectly fine at those shutter speeds, while another exhibits the same type of pixel-level blur you're describing, most notably at 1/180s and 1/125s. I can only speculate as to the technical cause, but it would make sense if the shutter simply shook the entire sensor in a way that cannot be compensated, and that the severity if the shake plus slowness of the shutter speed is just right for the effect to become visible.

On an unrelated note, with 36 megapixels it's a lot easier to see fine blur than with 14; the camera becomes more sensitive to shooting/holding technique and the quality of the lens. However, the more advanced 5-axis SR should offset this to an extent when hand holding. I think over time, you'll get used to the way the K-1 works and get better results.

[awscreo]

I made threads and posted about this, especially bothersome with the DFA 28-105. Seems to be less of a problem with my other lenses, or maybe I haven't noticed since DFA was glued to my camera for months. I sent my k-1 to Precision Camera to calibrate my sensor for hot pixels, but I sent the DFA along with it and mentioned the shutter shock issue, asked them to have a look at it and see if anything can be done.

[Sandy Hancock]

When I got my DFA15-30, one of the first things I noticed was this exact thing - fine blurring of otherwise well focussed hand held shots of static objects with a the lens stopped down and a decent shutter speed (1/125 plus or minus 1EV). The problem went away when the SR was turned off.

Now I try to remember to turn of SR off unless the shutter speed really requires it, but it is frustrating that an otherwise superb camera has such a flaw.

[DSLRnovice]

I just tested the dfa 28-105 @ 53mm along with my Ricoh 50/1.7 manual focus lens. I kept them on f8 and changed the ISO to get different exposure times. Live View with ES was slightly better than all the mechanical shutter speeds with mirror lockup and several seconds of delay.

With a resolution target it I could see very little difference with the 28-105 at 100%. The 50mm prime showed a drop in sharpness at 1/125th from ES at the finest point on the chart several times, but not all. I am not sure why that would be, except that the tripod might have shifted since it was on the ground. I did see improvement when I hung the camera bag on the tripod head.

The shutter vibration is real, but in my case not a big problem. I have not seen it in any of my pictures so far.

---------- Post added 09-09-2017 at 04:54 PM ----------

When I got my DFA15-30, one of the first things I noticed was this exact thing - fine blurring of otherwise well focussed hand held shots of static objects with a the lens stopped down and a decent shutter speed (1/125 plus or minus 1EV). The problem went away when the SR was turned off.

Now I try to remember to turn of SR off unless the shutter speed really requires it, but it is frustrating that an otherwise superb camera has such a flaw.

Now this is one I have not heard. I assumed that SR should be off when on a tripod, but even then 1/125th and others would induce vibration. I did not know that hand-held shots would be worse with SR on.

[Sandy Hancock]

I did not know that hand-held shots would be worse with SR on.

I have only noticed it with hand held shots. I rarely use a tripod for shooting at intermediate shutter speeds though - my longest lens is 300mm and I generally use it hand held.