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**nitehntr** · 10-23-2017, 04:10 AM

i am asking for some help and advice. i have two old film era sigma lenses and have trouble with them on the K1 the most trouble has been with the DG 17-35.

it will show it is in manual focus when i mount it a lot of the time and will actually switch back and forth but mostly show manual focus and will not let me change it with the camera body. it also shows the aperture as low as f1.2 when i adjust it either in TAV or manual.

i have used this lens from the MZ-S through the K3 with no problems. i have had similar problems but to a way lesser extent with the DG 24-70 and have also used it prior to the K1 with no problems on the same bodies. the perplexing part is that the old screw drive 50-500 works flawlessly on the K1. it has been suggested that the K1 body might have some problems.

what i am asking is have anyone out there had similar problems with the old sigma film era lenses on the K1.

i have spoken to sigma and they were very dismissive and of very little help at all. i literally cannot get through to the pentax technical people. i have sat on hold several times when i have tried.

it is still under warranty and i am trying to figure out if i need to ship it for repairs or if this is just a quirk of the K1 trying to use some of the older film lenses

if anyone has had similar problems i would really appreciate knowing so i can determine if its the old lenses or if the camera body needs work.

thanks to everyone in advance

Steve

D1N0 · 10-23-2017, 04:28 AM

Sigma lenses can have very ambiguous lens id's causing them to generate false information towards the camera. Also there could be a problem with electronic contact surfaces inside the lens. I wouldn't bother to contact Pentax. They won't help you with third party lenses. They are not supported. As long as your Pentax lenses work all right on the K-1 it is a lens problem anyway.

dsmithhfx · 10-23-2017, 05:32 AM

Camera makers switch firmware frequently to 1) support new features while maintaining 'reasonable' backwards-compatibility in own-brand lenses only. Some 3rd-party lens makers will update recent, top-of-the-line products (only) with reverse-engineered firmware, to maintain compatibility with new-release bodies. Film-era lenses certainly won't quality for any such updates whether OEM or 3rd-pty.

dsmithhfx · 10-23-2017, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by dcshooter

it's their own fault for cheaping out

Seriously?

timw4mail · 10-23-2017, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by dsmithhfx

Seriously?

He's referring to Sigma, not the OP.

stevebrot · 10-23-2017, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by dcshooter

It's a shame, since it's their own fault for cheaping out and refusing to license the Pentax design specs.

????

This claim is often made concerning Sigma, but is there any evidence that Pentax or any other camera maker has offered (at any price) to license current mount or mount api specifications to any lens maker? I prefer to think that Sigma has been and continues to be somewhat lax in its manufacturing precision. The OP's complaint is not unusual in that similar problems (poor contact registration) with Sigma lenses have been reported on this site for years. I am pretty sure that the design patents for the KAF mount on the OP's lens had expired before it was made in the mid-2000s and that there would be no legal impediment to making exact copies of the Pentax product if needed.

Steve

stevebrot · 10-23-2017, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

They finally gave me a new K-1 with no problems whatsoever.

Fascinating, so perhaps the OPs appeal to Pentax was not off-base.

Steve

**nitehntr** · 10-23-2017, 09:11 AM

thank you this has answered my questions pretty much but leads to more I'm afraid. has anyone had any of the same problems with Tamron or Tokina film era lenses on the K1. i have the Tamron 70-200 f2.8 screw drive and am so happy with it that even if i had the money right now i doubt I'd get the DFA version. i have 3 of the DFA lenses and am very pleased with them but am out of money for the time being and was hoping i could find an older ultra wide that will work. and thanks again for the help from everyone

**pres589** · 10-23-2017, 09:19 AM

Would be curious if contacts could be swapped between the Sigma 17-35 and some other lens that is known to work. Like a DA-L 50-200 or something else that should be cheap to buy for parts.

stevebrot · 10-23-2017, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by nitehntr

problems with sigma film era lenses

Originally posted by nitehntr

what i am asking is have anyone out there had similar problems with the old sigma film era lenses on the K1.

Your lens is firmly "digital-era" even though the mount is firmly mid-1980s tech. The "DG" in the name indicates "digital". As far as contact registration problems, reports for Sigma and other makers come up every once in awhile on this site. Given that you have not had problems with this lens on your other cameras, I would suspect the K-1 is slightly out in regards to this lens and your other Sigma. It would not hurt to inquire with Pentax.

Steve

stevebrot · 10-23-2017, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by dcshooter

If you open up the mounts, the designs on Tamron and Tokina lenses are very similar to those in Pentax lenses. Now this is not surprising, since both of those manufacturers have and have had publicly-acknowledged technology sharing agreements with Pentax and have actually manufactured lenses for Pentax in the past. Sigma's are completely different.

Sigma has also refused to license tech for any AF mount, and the resulting problems have been even worse in Canon and Minolta/Sony/Nikon land. For the Alpha/Maxxum/Dynax mount stuff...

I guess the point I intended was that for a screw-drive lens, there was no need to collaborate in regards to physical design and no real excuse to not have a good contact match.

I had not heard the horror stories on the other mounts, though they don't surprise me. I remember the days when Tamron and Tokina were top shelf for build and performance of 3rd-party glass with Sigma running a distant third. I am glad for the disruption from Samyang, Iris and others to stir things up and provide competition.

Steve

funktionsfrei · 10-24-2017, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

but is there any evidence that Pentax or any other camera maker has offered (at any price) to license current mount or mount api specifications to any lens maker?

There is evidence. Tamron has licensed the mount specification, as Tamron is the OEM manufacturer of some lenses sold by Pentax (as for instance the 18-250 and the 18-270 or the new 15-30).

Curiously, Tamron does not sell anything more advanced than the Kaf mount (screwdrive AF, introduced just three decades ago in 1987) under their own brand, even when they clearly know how to produce newer mounts (the 15-30 is using the Kaf3 bayonet with in-lens AF motor).

Some other Pentax lenses are most likely OEM manufactured by Tokina, as for instance the DA* 16-50/2.8 or the DA* 50-135/2.8 (those two being the AT-X 165 Pro and AT-X 535 Pro respectively).

In the pre-AF days, Tokina sold lenses with Pentax mount, but as far as I know, they've never sold an AF lens except as an OEM product.

surfar · 10-24-2017, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by funktionsfrei

they've never sold an AF lens except as an OEM product.

Look in the 3rd party lens reviews.

funktionsfrei · 10-24-2017, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by surfar

Look in the 3rd party lens reviews.

Tokina 100-300mm F5.6-6.8-7 AF Lens Reviews - Tokina Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

Ah. So they even made AF lenses with Pentax mount. Interesting.

But at least for the last decade, as far as I recall, they've definitively ceased doing that.

surfar · 10-24-2017, 01:59 PM

Theres reviews of 5 AF Tokinas,i own 2.

The performance of the 100-300 suits its 6 average,the 70-210 does quite well.

Tokinas are built like tanks mostly,i have a few MF ones as well.Cant complain for the $ i paid.

A friend has an AF 35-300mm which is not reviewd on here, i read another review that states its the worst Tokina lens,however if its the worst then that reviewer hasnt used the 100-300.

10-23-2017, 04:10 AM	#1
nitehntr Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Rivesville West Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 238	problems with sigma film era lenses i am asking for some help and advice. i have two old film era sigma lenses and have trouble with them on the K1 the most trouble has been with the DG 17-35. it will show it is in manual focus when i mount it a lot of the time and will actually switch back and forth but mostly show manual focus and will not let me change it with the camera body. it also shows the aperture as low as f1.2 when i adjust it either in TAV or manual. i have used this lens from the MZ-S through the K3 with no problems. i have had similar problems but to a way lesser extent with the DG 24-70 and have also used it prior to the K1 with no problems on the same bodies. the perplexing part is that the old screw drive 50-500 works flawlessly on the K1. it has been suggested that the K1 body might have some problems. what i am asking is have anyone out there had similar problems with the old sigma film era lenses on the K1. i have spoken to sigma and they were very dismissive and of very little help at all. i literally cannot get through to the pentax technical people. i have sat on hold several times when i have tried. it is still under warranty and i am trying to figure out if i need to ship it for repairs or if this is just a quirk of the K1 trying to use some of the older film lenses if anyone has had similar problems i would really appreciate knowing so i can determine if its the old lenses or if the camera body needs work. thanks to everyone in advance Steve

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10-23-2017, 04:28 AM	#2
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Sigma lenses can have very ambiguous lens id's causing them to generate false information towards the camera. Also there could be a problem with electronic contact surfaces inside the lens. I wouldn't bother to contact Pentax. They won't help you with third party lenses. They are not supported. As long as your Pentax lenses work all right on the K-1 it is a lens problem anyway.

10-23-2017, 05:32 AM	#3
dsmithhfx Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Toronto Posts: 5,155	Camera makers switch firmware frequently to 1) support new features while maintaining 'reasonable' backwards-compatibility in own-brand lenses only. Some 3rd-party lens makers will update recent, top-of-the-line products (only) with reverse-engineered firmware, to maintain compatibility with new-release bodies. Film-era lenses certainly won't quality for any such updates whether OEM or 3rd-pty.

10-23-2017, 07:54 AM	#4
dsmithhfx Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Toronto Posts: 5,155	Originally posted by dcshooter it's their own fault for cheaping out Seriously?

10-23-2017, 07:56 AM	#5
timw4mail Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Driving a Mirage Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,670	Originally posted by dsmithhfx Seriously? He's referring to Sigma, not the OP.

10-23-2017, 08:59 AM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by dcshooter It's a shame, since it's their own fault for cheaping out and refusing to license the Pentax design specs. ???? This claim is often made concerning Sigma, but is there any evidence that Pentax or any other camera maker has offered (at any price) to license current mount or mount api specifications to any lens maker? I prefer to think that Sigma has been and continues to be somewhat lax in its manufacturing precision. The OP's complaint is not unusual in that similar problems (poor contact registration) with Sigma lenses have been reported on this site for years. I am pretty sure that the design patents for the KAF mount on the OP's lens had expired before it was made in the mid-2000s and that there would be no legal impediment to making exact copies of the Pentax product if needed. Steve

10-23-2017, 09:01 AM	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 They finally gave me a new K-1 with no problems whatsoever. Fascinating, so perhaps the OPs appeal to Pentax was not off-base. Steve

10-23-2017, 09:11 AM	#8
nitehntr Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Rivesville West Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 238 Original Poster	thank you this has answered my questions pretty much but leads to more I'm afraid. has anyone had any of the same problems with Tamron or Tokina film era lenses on the K1. i have the Tamron 70-200 f2.8 screw drive and am so happy with it that even if i had the money right now i doubt I'd get the DFA version. i have 3 of the DFA lenses and am very pleased with them but am out of money for the time being and was hoping i could find an older ultra wide that will work. and thanks again for the help from everyone

10-23-2017, 09:19 AM	#9
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,533	Would be curious if contacts could be swapped between the Sigma 17-35 and some other lens that is known to work. Like a DA-L 50-200 or something else that should be cheap to buy for parts.

10-23-2017, 09:20 AM	#10
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by nitehntr problems with sigma film era lenses Originally posted by nitehntr what i am asking is have anyone out there had similar problems with the old sigma film era lenses on the K1. Your lens is firmly "digital-era" even though the mount is firmly mid-1980s tech. The "DG" in the name indicates "digital". As far as contact registration problems, reports for Sigma and other makers come up every once in awhile on this site. Given that you have not had problems with this lens on your other cameras, I would suspect the K-1 is slightly out in regards to this lens and your other Sigma. It would not hurt to inquire with Pentax. Steve

10-23-2017, 01:46 PM	#11
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by dcshooter If you open up the mounts, the designs on Tamron and Tokina lenses are very similar to those in Pentax lenses. Now this is not surprising, since both of those manufacturers have and have had publicly-acknowledged technology sharing agreements with Pentax and have actually manufactured lenses for Pentax in the past. Sigma's are completely different. Sigma has also refused to license tech for any AF mount, and the resulting problems have been even worse in Canon and Minolta/Sony/Nikon land. For the Alpha/Maxxum/Dynax mount stuff... I guess the point I intended was that for a screw-drive lens, there was no need to collaborate in regards to physical design and no real excuse to not have a good contact match. I had not heard the horror stories on the other mounts, though they don't surprise me. I remember the days when Tamron and Tokina were top shelf for build and performance of 3rd-party glass with Sigma running a distant third. I am glad for the disruption from Samyang, Iris and others to stir things up and provide competition. Steve

10-24-2017, 12:34 PM	#12
funktionsfrei Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 183	Originally posted by stevebrot but is there any evidence that Pentax or any other camera maker has offered (at any price) to license current mount or mount api specifications to any lens maker? There is evidence. Tamron has licensed the mount specification, as Tamron is the OEM manufacturer of some lenses sold by Pentax (as for instance the 18-250 and the 18-270 or the new 15-30). Curiously, Tamron does not sell anything more advanced than the Kaf mount (screwdrive AF, introduced just three decades ago in 1987) under their own brand, even when they clearly know how to produce newer mounts (the 15-30 is using the Kaf3 bayonet with in-lens AF motor). Some other Pentax lenses are most likely OEM manufactured by Tokina, as for instance the DA* 16-50/2.8 or the DA* 50-135/2.8 (those two being the AT-X 165 Pro and AT-X 535 Pro respectively). In the pre-AF days, Tokina sold lenses with Pentax mount, but as far as I know, they've never sold an AF lens except as an OEM product.

10-24-2017, 01:15 PM	#13
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,147	Originally posted by funktionsfrei they've never sold an AF lens except as an OEM product. Look in the 3rd party lens reviews.

10-24-2017, 01:34 PM	#14
funktionsfrei Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 183	Originally posted by surfar Look in the 3rd party lens reviews. Tokina 100-300mm F5.6-6.8-7 AF Lens Reviews - Tokina Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database Ah. So they even made AF lenses with Pentax mount. Interesting. But at least for the last decade, as far as I recall, they've definitively ceased doing that.

10-24-2017, 01:59 PM	#15
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,147	Theres reviews of 5 AF Tokinas,i own 2. The performance of the 100-300 suits its 6 average,the 70-210 does quite well. Tokinas are built like tanks mostly,i have a few MF ones as well.Cant complain for the $ i paid. A friend has an AF 35-300mm which is not reviewd on here, i read another review that states its the worst Tokina lens,however if its the worst then that reviewer hasnt used the 100-300.