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12-17-2017, 01:24 PM - 1 Like   #16
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Seems a good time to re-post a link to the Nikon D800 Technical Guide [PDF -2.8MB]

12-17-2017, 01:43 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Seems a good time to re-post a link to the Nikon D800 Technical Guide [PDF -2.8MB]
Always a good thing to remember...

In the mean time, Adam's suggestion of manual focus using magnified live view can help rule out the the PDAF system and the lens' optics.

Trying all three lenses on the OP's K-3II might be another option.


Steve
12-17-2017, 02:29 PM   #18
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Yes it is shutter shock. 1/60-1/200 and it can be experienced with the K1. I find it only appears for me when on a tripod with a long lens. Hand holding I don't see it, but I don't own the 28-105. The 28-105 seems to be the worst combo with the K-1 in this regard even handheld. There are many topics on this site and that lens features more than most as problematic.

Shutter shock is nothing new and has affected cameras for years, some more thatn others. You have LV ES to use in this shutter range and it will eliminate it.


AF Fine Adjustment
You should anyway do a focus FA (fine adjustment) test on all your lenses anyway and make any adjustments required, just steer clear of 1/60-1/200 when doing the tests. This is very important and is separate from your shutter shock issue.
12-17-2017, 02:51 PM   #19
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you have to use liveview to avoid shutter shock. It's very convenient.
Typical use case, using OVF as primary mode for a DSLR
- adjust aperture / iso, if you are in Av mode
- frame your subject
- check your shutter speed
- if the shutter speed is faster than 1/200 you are lucky you can take the shot.
- if the shutter speed is between 1/30 and 1/200, bad luck, remove your eye from the viewfinder and switch the camera to LV mode + ES
- now look at the LCD instead of the OVF
- recompose the shoot
- check exposure
- refocus
- take the shot

when photographing people, hopefully they are very patient...

With Pentax K3 costing less than 1K, you did not have to care about that.
But now that you got a K1 for 2K, because you hoped for better image quality, you have to do that complication thing, that's great.


Last edited by biz-engineer; 12-17-2017 at 03:01 PM.
12-17-2017, 05:49 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
But now that you got a K1 for 2K, because you hoped for better image quality, you have to do that complication thing, that's great.
That is not my experience when hand-holding with the K-1

For me only long lens on tripod is an issue.

The problem seems to be the K-1 + 28-105 combo, but not all users experience the issue.
12-17-2017, 06:29 PM - 5 Likes   #21
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QuoteQuote:
Can anyone confirm that his/her copy WITH the 28-105 does an excellent job even between 1/80 and 1/200?
Yes, I am very happy with my 28-105. Here's a hand held 1/100 sec shot that I posted in another thread:

12-17-2017, 09:24 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by sibyrnes Quote
Yes, I am very happy with my 28-105. Here's a hand held 1/100 sec shot that I posted in another thread:
Do you have samples taken at 28mm - 1/30 to 1/200? I've shared a whole sequence with SR on and off, and there's shutter shock in that range. I think the range is different for other focal lengths, I haven't tested them.
12-17-2017, 10:19 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
The problem seems to be the K-1 + 28-105 combo, but not all users experience the issue.
I haven't experienced an issue either with that combo, but I'm not dismissive of the notion that the K-1 may feel some shutter shock.

The 'shutter-shock' concept is not unheard of with both mirrorless and DSLR's, particularly in higher MP devices. As the K-1 has a larger (and more durable) shutter than its forebear, I would be surprised if the Pentax engineers were not aware of the risk of shutter-shock, and did not make an effort to make the K-1 shutter action as soft as they could.

They certainly went to considerable efforts to reduce any incidence of mirror bounce or slap with the considerably larger mirror of the K-1, claiming that the K-1 operates with considerably less mirror bounce than the K-3.

12-17-2017, 11:02 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
That is not my experience when hand-holding with the K-1
Yes, I know, as I've read your same comment many times. Doesn't make sense , there must be something flawed in your comparison.
Anyway, I know a lot of people here are retired, so I can understand that spending time figuring things out is not a big deal, it can even be interesting thing to do.
On the other hand, I'm still actively working with tons of responsibilities, I have no much time for debugging a camera, I buy an high end product, I expect it to work flawlessly.
12-18-2017, 03:33 AM   #25
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So this really is an amazing forum! Thanks to all of you.

But alas, my problems aren't entirely solved. So here's just a short feedback because unfortunately I've to work (at least for the 2 grand). Sorry, no time for posting pictures, perhaps later.

1) I can get very sharp images from K-1 + 28-105 with very short exposure (1/320 +). SR off handheld. AF (center point) seems ok, fine adjustment perhaps needed to a small amount. So, the proposed workarounds are the way to go. Well, don't know yet.

2) Counter-checked lenses on the K-3ii, worked fine. 28-105 maybe a little less convincing than the 16-85.

3) Problems with my Tammies still unsolved. They are tack sharp on the K-3ii (70-200 needing +6).
@ 70-200: With the K-1 and the 70-200 I can get sharp images randomly. If unsharp they are worse on both sides of the focal plane, so probably not a AF adjustment problem. As I said above the K-1 tends to change the autofocus automatically just by a fraction. If I'm correct it should stay in place once focus is acquired, but when pressing the AF again after a few seconds there's a small readjustment. AF is deactivated with exposure release, of course. This doesn't happen with the K-3ii. So, it's supposedly a K-1 issue or the combo?
@ 90 Macro: I got a stunning image @ f2.8 + 1/320 (VERY sharp + in focus), but worse results when stopping down, only to be ok again @ f7.1 + 1/50. So, PDAF seems to be working correctly and shutter shake the culprit.

Maybe the tripod is to blame (Dörr Airpod 160 with Giottos MH 1300 head, quite alright, but far from pro for sure). Since it's the only one available I won't find out.

I still have time to make up my mind, but I think I'll try to get a replacement.

@ biz-engineer: "you have to use liveview to avoid shutter shock. It's very convenient.
Typical use case, using OVF as primary mode for a DSLR
- adjust aperture / iso, if you are in Av mode
- frame your subject
- check your shutter speed
- if the shutter speed is faster than 1/200 you are lucky you can take the shot.
- if the shutter speed is between 1/30 and 1/200, bad luck, remove your eye from the viewfinder and switch the camera to LV mode + ES
- now look at the LCD instead of the OVF
- recompose the shoot
- check exposure
- refocus
- take the shot

when photographing people, hopefully they are very patient..."

I like that!

Cheers
harpoh


12-18-2017, 03:58 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Yes, I know, as I've read your same comment many times. Doesn't make sense , there must be something flawed in your comparison
Well I can only speak for my experience with one copy of the K-1.

With the DA* 60-250 or DA* 300 on a tripod (gitzo series 3) i can repeat time and time again the shutter shock. If I switch to LV ES it disappears.

With any of my other lenses on a tripod (I dont have the 28-105) I don'tt see the shutter shock.

When handholding any lens on the K-1 I dont see shutter shock.

What is flawed with that ?

Have a look at the picture posted above by Sibyrnes. Nothing wrong with that and he is using the 28-105 lens. if shutter-shock affected all K-1 to the extent you imply the forums would be full of posts about nothing else. Perhaps some copies produce the effect more than others which is why you see it handheld. Have you sent it back for it to be checked ?

Last edited by pschlute; 12-18-2017 at 04:07 AM.
12-18-2017, 04:40 AM   #27
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The title of this thread is quite annoying IMHO. I believe that there are some people that may only use their K-1 with the DFA 28-105 and at SS of 1/60 to 1/200 and encounter shutter shock that result in motion blurred images. It is also understandable that for their own reasons they don't want to use live view with the ES while on a tripod. But characterizing the K-1 dissapointing based only on this "special feature" (that I haven't seen myself but I believe those who say they experisnce it) is at least a miss...

PS: I don't want to elaborate on cameras with serious defects that are still under production and in the market, we all know many examples. If you call the K-1 disappointing you should get a hammer and visit the camera stores to save the photographic community from those "garbage"...

Last edited by redpit; 12-18-2017 at 05:58 AM. Reason: some spelling corrections.
12-18-2017, 06:41 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by harpoh Quote
So this really is an amazing forum! Thanks to all of you.

But alas, my problems aren't entirely solved. So here's just a short feedback because unfortunately I've to work (at least for the 2 grand). Sorry, no time for posting pictures, perhaps later.

1) I can get very sharp images from K-1 + 28-105 with very short exposure (1/320 +). SR off handheld. AF (center point) seems ok, fine adjustment perhaps needed to a small amount. So, the proposed workarounds are the way to go. Well, don't know yet.

2) Counter-checked lenses on the K-3ii, worked fine. 28-105 maybe a little less convincing than the 16-85.

3) Problems with my Tammies still unsolved. They are tack sharp on the K-3ii (70-200 needing +6).
@ 70-200: With the K-1 and the 70-200 I can get sharp images randomly. If unsharp they are worse on both sides of the focal plane, so probably not a AF adjustment problem. As I said above the K-1 tends to change the autofocus automatically just by a fraction. If I'm correct it should stay in place once focus is acquired, but when pressing the AF again after a few seconds there's a small readjustment. AF is deactivated with exposure release, of course. This doesn't happen with the K-3ii. So, it's supposedly a K-1 issue or the combo?
@ 90 Macro: I got a stunning image @ f2.8 + 1/320 (VERY sharp + in focus), but worse results when stopping down, only to be ok again @ f7.1 + 1/50. So, PDAF seems to be working correctly and shutter shake the culprit.

Maybe the tripod is to blame (Dörr Airpod 160 with Giottos MH 1300 head, quite alright, but far from pro for sure). Since it's the only one available I won't find out.

I still have time to make up my mind, but I think I'll try to get a replacement.

@ biz-engineer: "you have to use liveview to avoid shutter shock. It's very convenient.
Typical use case, using OVF as primary mode for a DSLR
- adjust aperture / iso, if you are in Av mode
- frame your subject
- check your shutter speed
- if the shutter speed is faster than 1/200 you are lucky you can take the shot.
- if the shutter speed is between 1/30 and 1/200, bad luck, remove your eye from the viewfinder and switch the camera to LV mode + ES
- now look at the LCD instead of the OVF
- recompose the shoot
- check exposure
- refocus
- take the shot

when photographing people, hopefully they are very patient..."

I like that!

Cheers
harpoh


If you're shooting on a tripod, you can use the electronic shutter. It completely removes any shutter shake, it's what I use 90% of the time if I have time to setup the tripod.

Your 70-200 comment made it seem that you are using the shutter button to af (half pressing?). In this situation it might be better to use the af button on the back to focus and shutter release to take a shot, that way if you've acquired focus you won't lose it by accidentally touching the shutter button. Maybe you're already using this method and I'm mistaken, apologies in advance) also, using 9 point af mode sometimes gives better results, at least with my Tamron 70-200. I've noticed that my screw drive lenses aren't as precise as my newer lenses with silent af motors, and Tamron gives me the most issues probably due to a shallow dof. Sometimes it's difficult to focus on the eye in portraiture.

---------- Post added 12-18-17 at 06:53 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Well I can only speak for my experience with one copy of the K-1.

With the DA* 60-250 or DA* 300 on a tripod (gitzo series 3) i can repeat time and time again the shutter shock. If I switch to LV ES it disappears.

With any of my other lenses on a tripod (I dont have the 28-105) I don'tt see the shutter shock.

When handholding any lens on the K-1 I dont see shutter shock.

What is flawed with that ?

Have a look at the picture posted above by Sibyrnes. Nothing wrong with that and he is using the 28-105 lens. if shutter-shock affected all K-1 to the extent you imply the forums would be full of posts about nothing else. Perhaps some copies produce the effect more than others which is why you see it handheld. Have you sent it back for it to be checked ?
I believe shutter shock is more prominent at 28mm. Maybe extending the lens does something to mitigate it, or soften the effect. I can also get sharp images at 105mm with, shutter shock range is different at that point. 28mm is what gives me the most troubles (1/30 to 1/200). I sent my copy together with my camera for a checkup, and returned with absolutely nothing changed. If we were to check for an actual design flaw of the combo, we'd need all owners to shoot few shots hand held at 28mm and within a certain shutter range and see if what percentage of people had the issue. Experiment needs boundaries to be effective.

I mean to op's title - so far from my experience, I have had multiple issues with all of my lenses in one way or another - 28-108 having this massive shutter shock range hence making it more difficult to use in travel (when I want a single lens kit), da 50 1.8 having issues nailing the af sometimes, Tamron 70-200 also having issues with af, and most disappointing is my latest purchase - dfa 15-30, I'm on my second copy of the lens and I'm seeing uneven sides of the image (made few posts about it). K-1 has not been a flawless experience for me for sure. I have to say, I had much less issues with these kind of things when I was using mirrorless oly em1, just being honest here.

Last edited by awscreo; 12-18-2017 at 06:54 AM.
12-18-2017, 08:13 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpit Quote
SS of 1/60 to 1/200 and encounter shutter shock
Unfortunately, as per the most common lighting conditions, with ISO100 and the most commonly used apertures such as f5.6 to f11, shutter speed is very often between 1/30th and 1/200. Beside that technical fact, the rest is emotional detail. When I used the K1 and 28-105, morning to evening, shutter speed was in the problematic range, I had to redo the same shots 2 or 3 time to get decent sharpness. If I wanted to do a print of those shots , I'd rather get my K3 back..
12-18-2017, 08:30 AM   #30
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Maybe try some shots with bean bag on a masonry wall to eliminate any tripod related concerns? This will tell you if the 'pod is up to the task.
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