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12-17-2017, 10:37 AM - 1 Like   #1
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New K-1 disappointment

Hi all,
being a constant reader, but a rare poster on this marvellous forum I really need to address you for help.

4 days ago my new K-1 together the DFA 28-105 (€2,000, not a bad deal here in Germany) arrived and boy was I excited. After K-20D, K-5 and K-3ii now the gold standard! Off I went taking pictures, but what the #*?/. Not a single one in focus, all blurry! Well, probably shake related, I can't yet master the 36 MP @ 1/125 give or take. Do some proper tests, you fool! This I did, hopefully.
Put camera on a sturdy enough tripod, remote release (3s) on, SR off, pointed at neighbour's roof 50 meters away, which was lit by the winter sun. No wind at all. Iso 100, 1/125 @ 5.6, which is wide open @ 105mm. Didn't work: very strong blur everywhere, definitely no BF or BF. Same with different settings. Next try: LV and ES, et voilà, picture reasonably sharp all over. An obvious solution comes to mind (please do correct me, if I'm wrong): the notorious shutter shake. I have studied almost every thread on PF regarding this topic.
Btw, similar results could be seen with my other FF lenses the (HEAVY) Tamron 70-200 and the Tamron 90mm Macro (no LV support for them).
Especially the latter showed some interesting results: wide open, i.e. f2.8 @ 1/320 the image was razorsharp, then stopping down (and entering that dangerous range from 1/200 and below the outcome deteriorated significantly showing even some slight ghosts of nearby twigs. It got better again with f7.1 @ 1/30. So, this has to be shutter shake, hasn't it? If yes, there's no doubt about sending that combo back. Those workarounds discussed here and elsewhere are not for me. I want to take photos (just like with my wonderful K-3ii, which I'll keep anyway as a backup) without being always on the alert for potentially ruined images.
My questions are: how good are my chances to get a decent copy of the K-1? Are all K-1s affected by that problem, but to a varied degree? Can anyone confirm that his/her copy WITH the 28-105 does an excellent job even between 1/80 and 1/200?
One more thing: with my Tamron 70-200 I observed a (maybe) strange behaviour. After focussing and then releasing the AF-button the focus didn't seem to be fixed (a zzztish sound could be heard from inside the camera as if the focus was changed by itself) and after pressing AF again there was a slight readjustment. Is that normal or am I missing something? Camera was on tripod with no movement and no SR.

I know, the decision is for me to make, but some advice would be appreciated. Because, you know, I want her so badly!

Kind regards

harpoh

12-17-2017, 10:43 AM   #2
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Sounds like you might have a received a bad copy? I hardly remove the 28-105 from the one i have, no issues hand held, across multiple shutter speeds, and i get good results. Other people will chime in im sure.


12-17-2017, 11:08 AM   #3
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While it may be shutter shake it could also be that AF adjustment for your lenses is in order. I think the K-1 is less forgiving and so I might check the lenses for front or back focus first. You mention sharp images in LV and with electronic shutter so you should rule out AF adjustment.
12-17-2017, 11:08 AM   #4
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Have you tried the AF fine adjustment (C4/25 in menu)?


Could you possibly post some sample shots?

12-17-2017, 11:08 AM   #5
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My K-1 has maybe 10,000 actuations at this point without a single blurry image that was not my fault. There have been a few new posters saying they have seen the so called "shutter shake" and generally I simply dismissed those as due to inexperience. But there have also been a few posters with plenty of experience and enough reputation here that I respect their results. So perhaps something is going on, but it most certainly is not all K-1's or even any significant percentage.

Would like to see some images showing the issue with the EXIF intact so perhaps someone can diagnose what is happening.
12-17-2017, 11:16 AM   #6
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I don't have the k-1, but on other cameras it seems some copies are worse at shutter shake than others and testing for it can be done by using the exact same exposure with electronic shutter vs mechanical. It's that possible? Sample shots with exif will help.
12-17-2017, 11:20 AM   #7
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Try use SPOT or CENTER-WEIGH. MULTI-AREA might problem focus. Use OvF.
12-17-2017, 11:24 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by harpoh Quote
Hi all,
being a constant reader, but a rare poster on this marvellous forum I really need to address you for help.

4 days ago my new K-1 together the DFA 28-105 (€2,000, not a bad deal here in Germany) arrived and boy was I excited. After K-20D, K-5 and K-3ii now the gold standard! Off I went taking pictures, but what the #*?/. Not a single one in focus, all blurry! Well, probably shake related, I can't yet master the 36 MP @ 1/125 give or take. Do some proper tests, you fool! This I did, hopefully.
Put camera on a sturdy enough tripod, remote release (3s) on, SR off, pointed at neighbour's roof 50 meters away, which was lit by the winter sun. No wind at all. Iso 100, 1/125 @ 5.6, which is wide open @ 105mm. Didn't work: very strong blur everywhere, definitely no BF or BF. Same with different settings. Next try: LV and ES, et voilà, picture reasonably sharp all over. An obvious solution comes to mind (please do correct me, if I'm wrong): the notorious shutter shake. I have studied almost every thread on PF regarding this topic.
Btw, similar results could be seen with my other FF lenses the (HEAVY) Tamron 70-200 and the Tamron 90mm Macro (no LV support for them).
Especially the latter showed some interesting results: wide open, i.e. f2.8 @ 1/320 the image was razorsharp, then stopping down (and entering that dangerous range from 1/200 and below the outcome deteriorated significantly showing even some slight ghosts of nearby twigs. It got better again with f7.1 @ 1/30. So, this has to be shutter shake, hasn't it? If yes, there's no doubt about sending that combo back. Those workarounds discussed here and elsewhere are not for me. I want to take photos (just like with my wonderful K-3ii, which I'll keep anyway as a backup) without being always on the alert for potentially ruined images.
My questions are: how good are my chances to get a decent copy of the K-1? Are all K-1s affected by that problem, but to a varied degree? Can anyone confirm that his/her copy WITH the 28-105 does an excellent job even between 1/80 and 1/200?
One more thing: with my Tamron 70-200 I observed a (maybe) strange behaviour. After focussing and then releasing the AF-button the focus didn't seem to be fixed (a zzztish sound could be heard from inside the camera as if the focus was changed by itself) and after pressing AF again there was a slight readjustment. Is that normal or am I missing something? Camera was on tripod with no movement and no SR.

I know, the decision is for me to make, but some advice would be appreciated. Because, you know, I want her so badly!

Kind regards

harpoh
The second issue with the 70-200. That seems to be a configuration issue. How do you have the af button configured? If you focus, then press the shutter, it may reattempt focus. Look up back button focus configuration here.

Your lens might be soft, or not focusing. I doubt if it is the body. Try adjusting the focus compensation.

12-17-2017, 11:30 AM - 2 Likes   #9
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Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Yes, this is shutter shake and seems to be a problem with many high-resolution full-frame cameras, not just the K-1. To design an FF camera with a decent flash sync speed, an FF shutter must move 1.5X faster than an APS-C shutter does. The FF shutter is also 2.25X larger that an APS-C and may be more the 2.25X heavier if it requires thicker blades to handle the higher speeds or provide better shutter longevity. Overall, the larger and faster FF shutter induces at least 5X the level of vibration as an APS-C shutter does.

What's unclear is whether specific tripods may be a large part of the problem (explaining why the problem does not seem to happen hand-held, not all high-resolution FF camera users see the problem, and some people only see the problem with some lenses). A much stiffer tripod may be required or the addition of weight to the system may help damp this problem.
12-17-2017, 11:49 AM   #10
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Please tell me that you have checked the AF fine adjustment on the camera. Often times, the lens you have may not happen to be right on matching with the camera you have. 1/125 shutter is good enough for anyone to get a good sharp image (with SR on) unless you have shaky hands. Hope you find the answer to your problem soon.
12-17-2017, 12:00 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by harpoh Quote
Can anyone confirm that his/her copy WITH the 28-105 does an excellent job even between 1/80 and 1/200?
No. The week-end I was out taking photos with K1 and DFA28-105 because it is small. Light was such that I most shot at shutter speeds between 1/30 and 1/125, I ended up using MLU and LV ES because all of my first pictures were somehow blurred. Also having the DFA24-70, I have less that problem. Shutter shake also has an effect with the DFA24-70 but it is reasonable. My solution will be to sell the 28-105, that will be one step further to reducing the number of k mount lenses I own.
12-17-2017, 12:08 PM   #12
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Take it up with the retailer. Obviously a bad copy of lens or camera. Chances of getting two bad ones are virtually non-existent.
12-17-2017, 12:08 PM   #13
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Sounds like it could be an AF calibration issue. Can you test the camera with a different lens, and/or by focusing manually in VF mode?

Adam
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12-17-2017, 01:00 PM   #14
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Let the autofocus focus on an object while the camera is on a tripod and then zoom in with liveview (turn on liveview and press ok, then use back adjustment dial to zoom) and see if the object is really in focus. That's just a quick check to see if there's an autofocus anomaly which may be resulting in your out-of-focus issues. Manually focus with the zoomed liveview image and take a picture. Examine the result. If it's out of focus, you have a shake issue.

Take another photo using the self-timer and see if there's any improvement when you aren't touching the camera. If not, it's most likely a shutter/mirror issue with that particular lens and tripod (it may not affect others). I seriously doubt that a given K-1 camera is worse than another since the mechanics are almost identical between cameras. It's usually a combination of camera/lens/mount that causes shake instabilities.

I have yet to see any with my K-1 that was not the product of my own making. You can see the stability of your particular arrangement when zoomed to liveview X16 with a long lens. Just tap the camera and see how much vibration you observe in the image. See how long it takes to die out. If you have another tripod, change to it and retest. You may be able to find a combination that works in your favor for reducing vibration.

One other thing: is shake reduction turned on? Try the above with and without shake reduction. I've taken some handheld shots that I would never have tried without shake reduction, and it does wonders.
12-17-2017, 01:16 PM   #15
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It's the lens. Unfortunately 1/125 is the worst shutter speed with 28-105. I personally see blur anywhere from 1/30 to 1/200, so I either use very slow shutter speed (I can get very sharp results with shutter speeds as low as 1/8) or go 1/250 and higher. I learned to live with it because the lens is such a great value and I shoot mostly on tripod anyway, but I wouldnt say it's the best option for a travel kit sadly, not with that much shutter shock.

Tldr - camera is fine, lens is the issue.
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