Pentax full frame system compared to Canon or Nikon

normhead · 01-21-2018, 07:07 AM - **3 Likes**

No matter what you buy there is going to be cost. Looking at your lenses I'm a little surprised you aren't think about a K-P.

There are three types of FF cameras
Action cameras, fast frames per second rate, great tracking and AF, but low MP.
Combination cameras, the best of which is probably the Nikon D850, which attempts to be everything for everyone and does a pretty good job.
Field cameras, landscape, pseudo macro, great images but lacking many of the features necessary in an action camera.

The K-1 fits into the last category. Not a great frame rate, to small a buffer for continuous action, but top quality IQ for the images you get.

Honestly, if you don't need the tracking capability a K-P will be a better choice than a D-750. It's an action camera.
A 6D compared to a K-1, don't waste your time thinking about it. A gain, because of the lenses you own, you'd be better off with a K-P.
Canon 5DmkII, again, unless you want the AF tracking capability, a K-P will be better.

At this price point you don't get everything.
You can have the IQ of the K-1, or the tracking ability of the Nikon or Canons, but at that price you don't get both.
Personally I always go for IQ. Circumstances can make up for lack of tracking AF. There are techniques to overcome the lack of it. Mind you those techniques get you a couple of shots when you might get 20 with a better tracking camera. But the 36 MP compared to 24 or less is always there.

You also might want to check the expense of the lenses you need just to get what you have.

From Pentax you will need at least the 24-70 and the 70-200 just to match your current capability. So you are talking

$1800 USD + 24-70 - $1000 + $1600.

You are looking at $4400 USD just to get pretty much the exact same capability you have now (except for the IQ for really big prints, and the slightly narrower depth of eld.) . To me, a K=P would be a much smarter solution. But hey, if you have the $5k I'm sure you can put together a decent package with any of those systems. And if sports or action is a big then drop Pentax altogether. Pentax in my mind has focussed on the basics of field photography.

Other companies focus on more sporty packages, but haven't done the things Pentax has done like in body shake reduction or Pixel Shift. And the only real compromise camera the D850, great IQ, acceptable AF and tracking, but low burst rate (FPS) it's twice the price and you still have the same lens expenses.

You didn't say how much you have to spend but. unless it's $5k USD or more, a K-P is your best upgrade. You have two quality APS-c lenses. You will get 22% more resolution on the lenses you own with a K-P or K-70 and it will be comparable IQ to the $5k system you are thinking about. For you it's a bargain, unless you want better action or sports. And every modern Pentax camera is abetter action sports camera than a K-5, K-1 included.

I look at the cost of a D750 with a 24-70 and 70-200 and ask "What are you thinking? Did you get a second mortgage?" Even the K-1 is the same. You are talking totally different league than what you have now. But hey, maybe that's the point. You want big step up, not an incremental step up. Unfortunately it's step up in price more than capability in every day use. It's the law of diminishing returns.

A K-P would be a big step up. You're talking about a huge step up. I wouldn't even consider a recommendation withuout understating what you want to better than what you have now. Especially since my wife is still quite happy with her k-5 and finds with lower quality lenses than what you have that it meets all her needs.

Her K-5 has 67,000 shutter actuation, she's tried both my K-3 and my K-1 and just says, "They are nice cameras but what I have is fine for me."

Looking at your ƒ2.8 zooms, I'd say K-P and DA 50 1.8 with what ever FA limited appeals to you. Increase your capability by building on what you have,

Last edited by normhead; 01-21-2018 at 09:51 AM.

**monochrome** · 01-21-2018, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by Adam

Simply put, you get D810 image quality at the price of the D750.

But a proper answer to your question really requires a long answer, because all these cameras are really really good to begin with.

If those are your only lenses currently, then when you upgrade you would be more or less free to go with any system you want. If you're a fan of the Pentax user interface, shoot mainly stills, or use a lot of manual lenses, then the K-1 would make a lot of sense.

Other advantages of the K-1 include the built-in stabilization, astro features, and pixel shift.

If you shoot a lot of action, Canon would probably be a better route. Same goes for video.

This response (or some sort of similar brief statement) should be sticky somewhere. So many question are answered so succinctly.

**Mikesul** · 01-21-2018, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

This response (or some sort of similar brief statement) should be sticky somewhere. So many question are answered so succinctly.

Yes! This is the kind of measured, thoughtful series of responses I have always expected from Pentax Forum. Hope the OP can stay us, but he has received good help even if he does not.

btnapa · 01-21-2018, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by normhead

No matter what you buy there is going to be cost

Normhead summed it up really well. I see a lot of excellent in-depth responses. SO I am not going to repeat what others have said.

I am former Canon owner and did own 5DMarkII and the 6D. Both are/were excellent cameras for their time. However, K1 which I do own is miles ahead of both in image quality.

---------- Post added 01-21-18 at 08:13 AM ----------

Originally posted by junlin79

Hi, just wonder if any one have experience on K1 system compared to Canon or Nikon. I have crop system K5 and DA*16-50 and 50-135/2.8 and quite happy with them. If upgrade to K1, it seems need to have new lenses as well, although K1 can function at crop. K1 costs about $1700, at par with Canon 5D Mark 2 or D6, Nikon D750. Any one has looked into them? What is the advantage of K1 system? Thanks!

What type of photography do you do? That would determine if you stay with Pentax or go with another brand.

I am a former Canon shooter and did own the 5DMarkII and the 6D. Both were excellent cameras for their time but the K1 is a better camera in one category I cherish most, image quality along with lots of other goodies such as IBIS, pixel shift, articulating screen an so forth.

If you shoot action, Pentax is respectable but not the best. IMHO, the one category that Pentax falls short is having a comprehensive flash system. Canon was not that good either. Nikon has the best native flash system. However, one thing that Canon, Nikon and Sony have is third party, reasonably priced flash system support. If I ever switched or add another system to my Pentax gear, It would for lighting support not better image quality or lenses.

Then there is video! Pentax is not the best but respectable. I am sure I have added to the confusion more than a guidance. What I would suggest is for you to take a hard look at the type of photography you do and then pick the system that gives you the best results. It kinda reminds me of the old days when we had to choose between Mac or PC. Most people on the know were saying that one should decide what software they needed the most and then pick the hardware that would run it.

With that said, I love my K1. It is by far the best still image making machine I have ever owned. And at $1,800 no one comes even close. Pentax has tons of fantastic lenses (new and legacy) as I am sure you already know. Just my .02.

alamo5000 · 01-21-2018, 09:19 AM - **1 Like**

I would caution the OP though. Look here and you don't see any bashing of brands. In fact there is open acknowledgement of pros and cons of each brand. You generally won't find this on many other forums.

If you run across a brand basher take their advice with a lot of caution.

All these guys make great cameras but none are perfect by any means.

normhead · 01-21-2018, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

This response (or some sort of similar brief statement) should be sticky somewhere. So many question are answered so succinctly.

Originally posted by Mikesul

Yes! This is the kind of measured, thoughtful series of responses I have always expected from Pentax Forum. Hope the OP can stay us, but he has received good help even if he does not.

It's not your forum. You don't get to decide which response the O.P. should prefer. You could however earn a spot on my ignore list.

I don't like getting involved in this cliquey "Who's got the best answer nonsense." They are all good.

Well actually , all that helped the O.P are good. Let's not include the two above. I'm sure the O.P will be quite capable of deciding for himself which is most useful to him without others trying to tell him.

IN the future maybe just help answer the question asked. Keep the in fighting and back biting out if it.

**monochrome** · 01-21-2018, 10:46 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by normhead

It's not your forum. You don't get to decide which response the O.P. should prefer. You could however earn a spot on my ignore list.

I don't like getting involved in this cliquey "Who's got the best answer nonsense." They are all good.

Well actually , all that helped the O.P are good. Let's not include the two above. I'm sure the O.P will be quite capable of deciding for himself which is most useful to him without others trying to tell him.

IN the future maybe just help answer the question asked. Keep the in fighting and back biting out if it.

????????

angerdan · 01-21-2018, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by junlin79

Hi, just wonder if any one have experience on K1 system compared to Canon or Nikon.
K1 costs about $1700, at par with Canon 5D Mark 2 or D6, Nikon D750.
What is the advantage of K1 system? Thanks!

Great Video from CameraVille: D850 v.s. K-1 - Page 2 - PentaxForums.com

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

Or in Text:
Only (Pentax) K-1 offers native DNG direct out of camera.

K-1 has the best 35mm DSLR ISO sensitivity/low noise, even slightly better than the best models in this aspect from CaNikon (Nikon Df and Canon EOS-1D X Mark II).
Camera Database - DxOMark

But it costs $1000/$4000 less than these!
Pentax K-1 vs Canon EOS-1D X Mark II vs Nikon Df

Dust and weatherproof as system of camera body, lenses, flashes and remote controls.
Compatible with lenses from 1970 until today, with AF from 1987 till now.
It has integrated GPS and the body is illuminated at te SD-card slot, lens mount and behind the retractable display.
K-1 offers PixelShift Resolution, good for landscape and architecture.

zapp · 01-21-2018, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by junlin79

Hi, just wonder if any one have experience on K1 system compared to Canon or Nikon. I have crop system K5 and DA*16-50 and 50-135/2.8 and quite happy with them. If upgrade to K1, it seems need to have new lenses as well, although K1 can function at crop. K1 costs about $1700, at par with Canon 5D Mark 2 or D6, Nikon D750. Any one has looked into them? What is the advantage of K1 system? Thanks!

Figure out why you want fullframe. After you have the answer, you can start to figure out what you need, want, prefer in a system.

K3ii and whatever comes next in APS-C from Pentax is a huge step forward from K5! You are right that you will have to look for all new lenses, more expensive, bigger ... for a fullframe system - a complpetely new feeling. It is pointless to go for the K1 without upgrading the lenses to fullframe very soon thereafter. The different angle of view between FF and APS-C makes it very difficult to slowly/gradually move from one format to the other.
Save yourself a lot of money now and look at the K3ii (quite inexpensive right now) or whaterver Pentax releases soon. You have not maxed out APS-C yet in my opinion, so upgrade your K5 and stick to APS-C, unless you are really up for fullframe. Keep your glass and maybe add the new DA* wide angle zoom - something very difficult to find in FF unless you go very, very large.
I had the K5, sold it for K3; sold K3 for K1 and got a bunch of new lenses. Size-, weight-, investmentwise K1 is a different world. I even consider getting an APS-C for travel/backup as well as further reach and faster speed. K1 feels dimensions feel like an old medium format system, big lenses, a lot of equipment to haul around... Image quality is much better than medium format film even at low iso. APS-C provides excellent image quality and comparing to Canon/Nikon only Pentax offers a full range of APS-C lenses. the story is different for for fullframe. K1 is doing a lot of things very well. The number of new lenses is quite limited and the new primes that will come soon are probably great, but big, heavy and costly.

**Rondec** · 01-21-2018, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by normhead

No matter what you buy there is going to be cost. Looking at your lenses I'm a little surprised you aren't think about a K-P.

There are three types of FF cameras
Action cameras, fast frames per second rate, great tracking and AF, but low MP.
Combination cameras, the best of which is probably the Nikon D850, which attempts to be everything for everyone and does a pretty good job.
Field cameras, landscape, pseudo macro, great images but lacking many of the features necessary in an action camera.

The K-1 fits into the last category. Not a great frame rate, to small a buffer for continuous action, but top quality IQ for the images you get.

Honestly, if you don't need the tracking capability a K-P will be a better choice than a D-750. It's an action camera.
A 6D compared to a K-1, don't waste your time thinking about it. A gain, because of the lenses you own, you'd be better off with a K-P.
Canon 5DmkII, again, unless you want the AF tracking capability, a K-P will be better.

At this price point you don't get everything.
You can have the IQ of the K-1, or the tracking ability of the Nikon or Canons, but at that price you don't get both.
Personally I always go for IQ. Circumstances can make up for lack of tracking AF. There are techniques to overcome the lack of it. Mind you those techniques get you a couple of shots when you might get 20 with a better tracking camera. But the 36 MP compared to 24 or less is always there.

You also might want to check the expense of the lenses you need just to get what you have.

From Pentax you will need at least the 24-70 and the 70-200 just to match your current capability. So you are talking

$1800 USD + 24-70 - $1000 + $1600.

You are looking at $4400 USD just to get pretty much the exact same capability you have now (except for the IQ for really big prints, and the slightly narrower depth of eld.) . To me, a K=P would be a much smarter solution. But hey, if you have the $5k I'm sure you can put together a decent package with any of those systems. And if sports or action is a big then drop Pentax altogether. Pentax in my mind has focussed on the basics of field photography.

Other companies focus on more sporty packages, but haven't done the things Pentax has done like in body shake reduction or Pixel Shift. And the only real compromise camera the D850, great IQ, acceptable AF and tracking, but low burst rate (FPS) it's twice the price and you still have the same lens expenses.

You didn't say how much you have to spend but. unless it's $5k USD or more, a K-P is your best upgrade. You have two quality APS-c lenses. You will get 22% more resolution on the lenses you own with a K-P or K-70 and it will be comparable IQ to the $5k system you are thinking about. For you it's a bargain, unless you want better action or sports. And every modern Pentax camera is abetter action sports camera than a K-5, K-1 included.

I look at the cost of a D750 with a 24-70 and 70-200 and ask "What are you thinking? Did you get a second mortgage?" Even the K-1 is the same. You are talking totally different league than what you have now. But hey, maybe that's the point. You want big step up, not an incremental step up. Unfortunately it's step up in price more than capability in every day use. It's the law of diminishing returns.

A K-P would be a big step up. You're talking about a huge step up. I wouldn't even consider a recommendation withuout understating what you want to better than what you have now. Especially since my wife is still quite happy with her k-5 and finds with lower quality lenses than what you have that it meets all her needs.

Her K-5 has 67,000 shutter actuation, she's tried both my K-3 and my K-1 and just says, "They are nice cameras but what I have is fine for me."

Looking at your ƒ2.8 zooms, I'd say K-P and DA 50 1.8 with what ever FA limited appeals to you. Increase your capability by building on what you have,

I would say you could go a little cheaper than that. Amazon has a K-1 with 28-105 kit for 2196. Add a Tamron 70-200 for 650 and you have a very nice set up for 2800. It is still expensive, but not quite the 4400 you quoted.

I am really conflicted about the whole "need" aspect of photography. None of us really needs to demonstrate need in order to want new gear, do we? Tess is probably smarter than the rest of us put together because she is happy with her K5 still, while I can tell you that if Pentax came out with a K-1 super tomorrow I would suddenly be trying to figure out reasons why I could justify getting it. In the end, whatever reason the OP wants to try full frame, if he has sufficient funds then that's probably good enough to validate a new camera body and some new lenses.

**felixkh** · 01-24-2018, 06:57 AM

As an example of what others are saying, I used to own a Pentax film camera and today, I still have my film era lenses which are all FF compatible. FA 31/1.8, 43/1.9, 77/1.8 and FA*200mm I used to have the FA*85/1.4 too.

My only modern lens for the K1 is the D-FA24-70/2.8. My legacy lenses are A50/1.2, K85/1.8, which are all in my signature.

The older K, M and A series lenses are wonderful t use if you like manual focusing. The older F and FA/FA* series are AF lenses that were coupled with the Pentax AF bodies like the PZ-1, PZ-20, MZ-S, MZ-5/ZX-5, MZ-6/ZX-L, MZ-7/ZX-7, etc.

normhead · 01-24-2018, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I am really conflicted about the whole "need" aspect of photography.

I've decided with regard to my K-1, I don't need it, but I like it.

Wheatfield · 01-24-2018, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by junlin79

Hi, just wonder if any one have experience on K1 system compared to Canon or Nikon. I have crop system K5 and DA*16-50 and 50-135/2.8 and quite happy with them. If upgrade to K1, it seems need to have new lenses as well, although K1 can function at crop. K1 costs about $1700, at par with Canon 5D Mark 2 or D6, Nikon D750. Any one has looked into them? What is the advantage of K1 system? Thanks!

If you are looking for a full frame system, Pentax is not the droid you are looking for.
The advantage that Nikon and Canon have is that they are actually systems. Pentax is a camera body and a few lenses.

---------- Post added 01-24-18 at 01:12 PM ----------

Originally posted by Rondec

I am really conflicted about the whole "need" aspect of photography.

There is no “need” aspect to photography. It is all about want. No one “needs” to practice the art of photography. We do it because we want to, and we buy equipment based on this want. We might gussy up the language and say we need this or that to do what we want to do, but it comes back to “want”.
“Need” in this context is nothing more than “want” held at arms length.

**Rondec** · 01-24-2018, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

If you are looking for a full frame system, Pentax is not the droid you are looking for.
The advantage that Nikon and Canon have is that they are actually systems. Pentax is a camera body and a few lenses.

---------- Post added 01-24-18 at 01:12 PM ----------

There is no “need” aspect to photography. It is all about want. No one “needs” to practice the art of photography. We do it because we want to, and we buy equipment based on this want. We might gussy up the language and say we need this or that to do what we want to do, but it comes back to “want”.
“Need” in this context is nothing more than “want” held at arms length.

If photography is the way you make a living then it is a need, same as a hammer for a carpenter. Even there, few photographers are able to charge thousands of dollars for a photo shoot and are getting by with a couple hundred for a photo shoot or maybe 2000 for a wedding. In that situation, you aren't going to buy top end gear, even if you can put it on "expenses."

angerdan · 01-24-2018, 01:26 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Wheatfield

The advantage that Nikon and Canon have is that they are actually systems. Pentax is a camera body and a few lenses.

Pentax is a huge systems which allows to use even 645/6x7 lenses on APS-C/35mm bodys.
Number of current available Lenses with AF for 24x36mm image circle is about 100 (including third party models).

01-21-2018, 09:33 AM	#21
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by monochrome This response (or some sort of similar brief statement) should be sticky somewhere. So many question are answered so succinctly. Originally posted by Mikesul Yes! This is the kind of measured, thoughtful series of responses I have always expected from Pentax Forum. Hope the OP can stay us, but he has received good help even if he does not. It's not your forum. You don't get to decide which response the O.P. should prefer. You could however earn a spot on my ignore list. I don't like getting involved in this cliquey "Who's got the best answer nonsense." They are all good. Well actually , all that helped the O.P are good. Let's not include the two above. I'm sure the O.P will be quite capable of deciding for himself which is most useful to him without others trying to tell him. IN the future maybe just help answer the question asked. Keep the in fighting and back biting out if it. Last edited by normhead; 01-21-2018 at 09:41 AM.

01-24-2018, 06:57 AM	#26
felixkh Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,201	As an example of what others are saying, I used to own a Pentax film camera and today, I still have my film era lenses which are all FF compatible. FA 31/1.8, 43/1.9, 77/1.8 and FA200mm I used to have the FA85/1.4 too. My only modern lens for the K1 is the D-FA24-70/2.8. My legacy lenses are A50/1.2, K85/1.8, which are all in my signature. The older K, M and A series lenses are wonderful t use if you like manual focusing. The older F and FA/FA* series are AF lenses that were coupled with the Pentax AF bodies like the PZ-1, PZ-20, MZ-S, MZ-5/ZX-5, MZ-6/ZX-L, MZ-7/ZX-7, etc. Last edited by felixkh; 01-24-2018 at 07:07 AM.

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01-21-2018, 07:07 AM - 3 Likes	#16
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	No matter what you buy there is going to be cost. Looking at your lenses I'm a little surprised you aren't think about a K-P. There are three types of FF cameras Action cameras, fast frames per second rate, great tracking and AF, but low MP. Combination cameras, the best of which is probably the Nikon D850, which attempts to be everything for everyone and does a pretty good job. Field cameras, landscape, pseudo macro, great images but lacking many of the features necessary in an action camera. The K-1 fits into the last category. Not a great frame rate, to small a buffer for continuous action, but top quality IQ for the images you get. Honestly, if you don't need the tracking capability a K-P will be a better choice than a D-750. It's an action camera. A 6D compared to a K-1, don't waste your time thinking about it. A gain, because of the lenses you own, you'd be better off with a K-P. Canon 5DmkII, again, unless you want the AF tracking capability, a K-P will be better. At this price point you don't get everything. You can have the IQ of the K-1, or the tracking ability of the Nikon or Canons, but at that price you don't get both. Personally I always go for IQ. Circumstances can make up for lack of tracking AF. There are techniques to overcome the lack of it. Mind you those techniques get you a couple of shots when you might get 20 with a better tracking camera. But the 36 MP compared to 24 or less is always there. You also might want to check the expense of the lenses you need just to get what you have. From Pentax you will need at least the 24-70 and the 70-200 just to match your current capability. So you are talking $1800 USD + 24-70 - $1000 + $1600. You are looking at $4400 USD just to get pretty much the exact same capability you have now (except for the IQ for really big prints, and the slightly narrower depth of eld.) . To me, a K=P would be a much smarter solution. But hey, if you have the $5k I'm sure you can put together a decent package with any of those systems. And if sports or action is a big then drop Pentax altogether. Pentax in my mind has focussed on the basics of field photography. Other companies focus on more sporty packages, but haven't done the things Pentax has done like in body shake reduction or Pixel Shift. And the only real compromise camera the D850, great IQ, acceptable AF and tracking, but low burst rate (FPS) it's twice the price and you still have the same lens expenses. You didn't say how much you have to spend but. unless it's $5k USD or more, a K-P is your best upgrade. You have two quality APS-c lenses. You will get 22% more resolution on the lenses you own with a K-P or K-70 and it will be comparable IQ to the $5k system you are thinking about. For you it's a bargain, unless you want better action or sports. And every modern Pentax camera is abetter action sports camera than a K-5, K-1 included. I look at the cost of a D750 with a 24-70 and 70-200 and ask "What are you thinking? Did you get a second mortgage?" Even the K-1 is the same. You are talking totally different league than what you have now. But hey, maybe that's the point. You want big step up, not an incremental step up. Unfortunately it's step up in price more than capability in every day use. It's the law of diminishing returns. A K-P would be a big step up. You're talking about a huge step up. I wouldn't even consider a recommendation withuout understating what you want to better than what you have now. Especially since my wife is still quite happy with her k-5 and finds with lower quality lenses than what you have that it meets all her needs. Her K-5 has 67,000 shutter actuation, she's tried both my K-3 and my K-1 and just says, "They are nice cameras but what I have is fine for me." Looking at your ƒ2.8 zooms, I'd say K-P and DA 50 1.8 with what ever FA limited appeals to you. Increase your capability by building on what you have, Last edited by normhead; 01-21-2018 at 09:51 AM.

01-21-2018, 07:14 AM	#17
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Adam Simply put, you get D810 image quality at the price of the D750. But a proper answer to your question really requires a long answer, because all these cameras are really really good to begin with. If those are your only lenses currently, then when you upgrade you would be more or less free to go with any system you want. If you're a fan of the Pentax user interface, shoot mainly stills, or use a lot of manual lenses, then the K-1 would make a lot of sense. Other advantages of the K-1 include the built-in stabilization, astro features, and pixel shift. If you shoot a lot of action, Canon would probably be a better route. Same goes for video. This response (or some sort of similar brief statement) should be sticky somewhere. So many question are answered so succinctly.

01-21-2018, 07:23 AM	#18
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by monochrome This response (or some sort of similar brief statement) should be sticky somewhere. So many question are answered so succinctly. Yes! This is the kind of measured, thoughtful series of responses I have always expected from Pentax Forum. Hope the OP can stay us, but he has received good help even if he does not.

01-21-2018, 08:52 AM	#19
btnapa Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,616	Originally posted by normhead No matter what you buy there is going to be cost Normhead summed it up really well. I see a lot of excellent in-depth responses. SO I am not going to repeat what others have said. I am former Canon owner and did own 5DMarkII and the 6D. Both are/were excellent cameras for their time. However, K1 which I do own is miles ahead of both in image quality. ---------- Post added 01-21-18 at 08:13 AM ---------- Originally posted by junlin79 Hi, just wonder if any one have experience on K1 system compared to Canon or Nikon. I have crop system K5 and DA*16-50 and 50-135/2.8 and quite happy with them. If upgrade to K1, it seems need to have new lenses as well, although K1 can function at crop. K1 costs about $1700, at par with Canon 5D Mark 2 or D6, Nikon D750. Any one has looked into them? What is the advantage of K1 system? Thanks! What type of photography do you do? That would determine if you stay with Pentax or go with another brand. I am a former Canon shooter and did own the 5DMarkII and the 6D. Both were excellent cameras for their time but the K1 is a better camera in one category I cherish most, image quality along with lots of other goodies such as IBIS, pixel shift, articulating screen an so forth. If you shoot action, Pentax is respectable but not the best. IMHO, the one category that Pentax falls short is having a comprehensive flash system. Canon was not that good either. Nikon has the best native flash system. However, one thing that Canon, Nikon and Sony have is third party, reasonably priced flash system support. If I ever switched or add another system to my Pentax gear, It would for lighting support not better image quality or lenses. Then there is video! Pentax is not the best but respectable. I am sure I have added to the confusion more than a guidance. What I would suggest is for you to take a hard look at the type of photography you do and then pick the system that gives you the best results. It kinda reminds me of the old days when we had to choose between Mac or PC. Most people on the know were saying that one should decide what software they needed the most and then pick the hardware that would run it. With that said, I love my K1. It is by far the best still image making machine I have ever owned. And at $1,800 no one comes even close. Pentax has tons of fantastic lenses (new and legacy) as I am sure you already know. Just my .02.

01-21-2018, 09:19 AM - 1 Like	#20
alamo5000 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,962	I would caution the OP though. Look here and you don't see any bashing of brands. In fact there is open acknowledgement of pros and cons of each brand. You generally won't find this on many other forums. If you run across a brand basher take their advice with a lot of caution. All these guys make great cameras but none are perfect by any means.

01-21-2018, 10:46 AM - 1 Like	#22
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by normhead It's not your forum. You don't get to decide which response the O.P. should prefer. You could however earn a spot on my ignore list. I don't like getting involved in this cliquey "Who's got the best answer nonsense." They are all good. Well actually , all that helped the O.P are good. Let's not include the two above. I'm sure the O.P will be quite capable of deciding for himself which is most useful to him without others trying to tell him. IN the future maybe just help answer the question asked. Keep the in fighting and back biting out if it. ????????

01-21-2018, 11:07 AM	#24
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Originally posted by junlin79 Hi, just wonder if any one have experience on K1 system compared to Canon or Nikon. I have crop system K5 and DA16-50 and 50-135/2.8 and quite happy with them. If upgrade to K1, it seems need to have new lenses as well, although K1 can function at crop. K1 costs about $1700, at par with Canon 5D Mark 2 or D6, Nikon D750. Any one has looked into them? What is the advantage of K1 system? Thanks! Figure out why you want fullframe. After you have the answer, you can start to figure out what you need, want, prefer in a system. K3ii and whatever comes next in APS-C from Pentax is a huge step forward from K5! You are right that you will have to look for all new lenses, more expensive, bigger ... for a fullframe system - a complpetely new feeling. It is pointless to go for the K1 without upgrading the lenses to fullframe very soon thereafter. The different angle of view between FF and APS-C makes it very difficult to slowly/gradually move from one format to the other. Save yourself a lot of money now and look at the K3ii (quite inexpensive right now) or whaterver Pentax releases soon. You have not maxed out APS-C yet in my opinion, so upgrade your K5 and stick to APS-C, unless you are really up for fullframe. Keep your glass and maybe add the new DA wide angle zoom - something very difficult to find in FF unless you go very, very large. I had the K5, sold it for K3; sold K3 for K1 and got a bunch of new lenses. Size-, weight-, investmentwise K1 is a different world. I even consider getting an APS-C for travel/backup as well as further reach and faster speed. K1 feels dimensions feel like an old medium format system, big lenses, a lot of equipment to haul around... Image quality is much better than medium format film even at low iso. APS-C provides excellent image quality and comparing to Canon/Nikon only Pentax offers a full range of APS-C lenses. the story is different for for fullframe. K1 is doing a lot of things very well. The number of new lenses is quite limited and the new primes that will come soon are probably great, but big, heavy and costly.

01-21-2018, 12:25 PM	#25
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by normhead No matter what you buy there is going to be cost. Looking at your lenses I'm a little surprised you aren't think about a K-P. There are three types of FF cameras Action cameras, fast frames per second rate, great tracking and AF, but low MP. Combination cameras, the best of which is probably the Nikon D850, which attempts to be everything for everyone and does a pretty good job. Field cameras, landscape, pseudo macro, great images but lacking many of the features necessary in an action camera. The K-1 fits into the last category. Not a great frame rate, to small a buffer for continuous action, but top quality IQ for the images you get. Honestly, if you don't need the tracking capability a K-P will be a better choice than a D-750. It's an action camera. A 6D compared to a K-1, don't waste your time thinking about it. A gain, because of the lenses you own, you'd be better off with a K-P. Canon 5DmkII, again, unless you want the AF tracking capability, a K-P will be better. At this price point you don't get everything. You can have the IQ of the K-1, or the tracking ability of the Nikon or Canons, but at that price you don't get both. Personally I always go for IQ. Circumstances can make up for lack of tracking AF. There are techniques to overcome the lack of it. Mind you those techniques get you a couple of shots when you might get 20 with a better tracking camera. But the 36 MP compared to 24 or less is always there. You also might want to check the expense of the lenses you need just to get what you have. From Pentax you will need at least the 24-70 and the 70-200 just to match your current capability. So you are talking $1800 USD + 24-70 - $1000 + $1600. You are looking at $4400 USD just to get pretty much the exact same capability you have now (except for the IQ for really big prints, and the slightly narrower depth of eld.) . To me, a K=P would be a much smarter solution. But hey, if you have the $5k I'm sure you can put together a decent package with any of those systems. And if sports or action is a big then drop Pentax altogether. Pentax in my mind has focussed on the basics of field photography. Other companies focus on more sporty packages, but haven't done the things Pentax has done like in body shake reduction or Pixel Shift. And the only real compromise camera the D850, great IQ, acceptable AF and tracking, but low burst rate (FPS) it's twice the price and you still have the same lens expenses. You didn't say how much you have to spend but. unless it's $5k USD or more, a K-P is your best upgrade. You have two quality APS-c lenses. You will get 22% more resolution on the lenses you own with a K-P or K-70 and it will be comparable IQ to the $5k system you are thinking about. For you it's a bargain, unless you want better action or sports. And every modern Pentax camera is abetter action sports camera than a K-5, K-1 included. I look at the cost of a D750 with a 24-70 and 70-200 and ask "What are you thinking? Did you get a second mortgage?" Even the K-1 is the same. You are talking totally different league than what you have now. But hey, maybe that's the point. You want big step up, not an incremental step up. Unfortunately it's step up in price more than capability in every day use. It's the law of diminishing returns. A K-P would be a big step up. You're talking about a huge step up. I wouldn't even consider a recommendation withuout understating what you want to better than what you have now. Especially since my wife is still quite happy with her k-5 and finds with lower quality lenses than what you have that it meets all her needs. Her K-5 has 67,000 shutter actuation, she's tried both my K-3 and my K-1 and just says, "They are nice cameras but what I have is fine for me." Looking at your ƒ2.8 zooms, I'd say K-P and DA 50 1.8 with what ever FA limited appeals to you. Increase your capability by building on what you have, I would say you could go a little cheaper than that. Amazon has a K-1 with 28-105 kit for 2196. Add a Tamron 70-200 for 650 and you have a very nice set up for 2800. It is still expensive, but not quite the 4400 you quoted. I am really conflicted about the whole "need" aspect of photography. None of us really needs to demonstrate need in order to want new gear, do we? Tess is probably smarter than the rest of us put together because she is happy with her K5 still, while I can tell you that if Pentax came out with a K-1 super tomorrow I would suddenly be trying to figure out reasons why I could justify getting it. In the end, whatever reason the OP wants to try full frame, if he has sufficient funds then that's probably good enough to validate a new camera body and some new lenses.

01-24-2018, 07:11 AM	#27
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Rondec I am really conflicted about the whole "need" aspect of photography. I've decided with regard to my K-1, I don't need it, but I like it.

01-24-2018, 11:55 AM	#28
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by junlin79 Hi, just wonder if any one have experience on K1 system compared to Canon or Nikon. I have crop system K5 and DA*16-50 and 50-135/2.8 and quite happy with them. If upgrade to K1, it seems need to have new lenses as well, although K1 can function at crop. K1 costs about $1700, at par with Canon 5D Mark 2 or D6, Nikon D750. Any one has looked into them? What is the advantage of K1 system? Thanks! If you are looking for a full frame system, Pentax is not the droid you are looking for. The advantage that Nikon and Canon have is that they are actually systems. Pentax is a camera body and a few lenses. ---------- Post added 01-24-18 at 01:12 PM ---------- Originally posted by Rondec I am really conflicted about the whole "need" aspect of photography. There is no “need” aspect to photography. It is all about want. No one “needs” to practice the art of photography. We do it because we want to, and we buy equipment based on this want. We might gussy up the language and say we need this or that to do what we want to do, but it comes back to “want”. “Need” in this context is nothing more than “want” held at arms length.

01-24-2018, 12:34 PM	#29
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Wheatfield If you are looking for a full frame system, Pentax is not the droid you are looking for. The advantage that Nikon and Canon have is that they are actually systems. Pentax is a camera body and a few lenses. ---------- Post added 01-24-18 at 01:12 PM ---------- There is no “need” aspect to photography. It is all about want. No one “needs” to practice the art of photography. We do it because we want to, and we buy equipment based on this want. We might gussy up the language and say we need this or that to do what we want to do, but it comes back to “want”. “Need” in this context is nothing more than “want” held at arms length. If photography is the way you make a living then it is a need, same as a hammer for a carpenter. Even there, few photographers are able to charge thousands of dollars for a photo shoot and are getting by with a couple hundred for a photo shoot or maybe 2000 for a wedding. In that situation, you aren't going to buy top end gear, even if you can put it on "expenses."

01-24-2018, 01:26 PM - 1 Like	#30
angerdan Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,639	Originally posted by Wheatfield The advantage that Nikon and Canon have is that they are actually systems. Pentax is a camera body and a few lenses. Pentax is a huge systems which allows to use even 645/6x7 lenses on APS-C/35mm bodys. Number of current available Lenses with AF for 24x36mm image circle is about 100 (including third party models).