K-1 upgrade circuit board or not?

texandrews · 03-10-2018, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Preordered K-1II and keeping K-1. I’m selling the KP and all my DA lenses except the 35 Macro.

Wow. Well, looks like you've just decided to commit to more than just a new purchase. Tell us more!

**monochrome** · 03-10-2018, 02:20 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by texandrews

Wow. Well, looks like you've just decided to commit to more than just a new purchase. Tell us more!

I don’t want to be an early adopter for the upgrade. I like what the Accelerator Unit does in the KP. I like the OVF on the K-1 - I can focus manual lenses on K-1. And there’s a context.

This is a hobby for me, not a business. I like using Pentax gear and have for 45 years. I buy mostly old things, try them and sell them - or keep them sometimes. I actively collect K series lenses. That’s I suppose a privilege of 45 years of hard work and frugal living, so now I can be a bit extravagant in this (but I still drive a Honda and have no debt whatsoever). It’s just choices. I don’t spend money on things normal people spend money on. I do this.

When the K-1 was released the plan was to use all those manual full frame lenses as the Powers That Be intended they be used. I walked into my local dealer Day 1 and bought it over the counter. I sold the K-3 and eventually boxed all the DA’s to be sold because even AF crop shooting on the great big OVF just didn’t work for me - then someone had gotten in over his head and offered me a nice collection of really fine FA* lenses, low serial FA Limiteds - and a spanking new silver KP. I got sidetracked.

I was / am really impressed by the KP itself, but all I do with it is snapshots of my grandchildren. Good as it is - good as the DA Limiteds are - that’s too much money to sit in a bag when I always reach for the K-1 first. I also have AIV FA Limiteds I bought new that the MIJ ones should replace. And some other neat old stuff that has been fun, but it’s time to let it go.

Money wise it’s very likely many more dollars in than dollars out. The 35 Macro is a special lens (I still have a K-01 and a K10D if it comes down to it and I like that sensor better anyway). Maybe the K-1 will turn out to be better for something than the K-1ll and I’ll have both - who knows? If not, I’ll sell it next year and I bet my cost will have been $35 a month for three years. People spend $35 a WEEK at Starbucks - and you know where it goes and hour later

But the real deal is the original plan. Convert to FF - shoot with all those K lenses - document them - print them - as an intentional project. Real Resolution with them should be neat. ISO 3200-6400 should be better. Maybe AF will be a bit better - who knows. OTOH maybe K-1 will have better long exposure base ISO RAW’s. Maybe it will just be my Macro camera - there are worse ideas. Maybe it’s just dumb. But there are already half a dozen K-1’s on the Market here. I’m not selling into that.

Just pray I never win the Lottery. I’d be on the phone to B&H for a 645z and the entire catalog of 645 lenses, “And I don't care if you have to special order it!” (That’s roughly $53,000, right?) Then I PM.

texandrews · 03-10-2018, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

I like what the Accelerator Unit does in the KP.

I love hearing that.

Quote:

People spend $35 a WEEK at Starbucks - and you know where it goes and hour later

Hilarious! Too true. It's why I always have my thermos with me....well, not to recycle, you understand....

Quote:

Just pray I never win the Lottery. I’d be on the phone to B&H for a 645z and the entire catalog of 645 lenses, “And I don't care if you have to special order it!” (That’s roughly $53,000, right?) Then I PM.

ummmm...got some bad news for you. I have a Z and now 13 lenses (including my just purchased rarity, the DA 25...), plus a teleconverter and 645-K adapter, right angle finder, 2x magnifier....and I spent waaaaaaay less than $53K. What I spent total is probably well within your price range, for all of that. And if you didn't need all of that....well, I'd say you might just be in trouble, my friend. Whatever you do, don't sit down and truly calculate the costs. Your wallet will be quickly lighter. But you'd be happy....

Sandy Hancock · 03-10-2018, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Preordered K-1II and keeping K-1. I’m selling the KP and all my DA lenses except the 35 Macro.

I'm also committed to the upgrade on at least one of my two bodies, but I can't bring myself to completely part with my crop kit. Apart from the 35 limited, the 15 and 21 are pretty special too.

I'm also keeping the 10-17, the 16-50, 50-135 and 55-300 into the foreseeable future, in part for the times I want to travel light, but also as a library of lenses for people (like my brother who now has my K-3) to borrow.

And by the way, if you're interested in a capable 645Z kit *much* cheaper than you anticipate, flip me a PM

**monochrome** · 03-10-2018, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by texandrews

I love hearing that. Hilarious! Too true. It's why I always have my thermos with me....well, not to recycle, you understand....
ummmm...got some bad news for you. I have a Z and now 13 lenses (including my just purchased rarity, the DA 25...), plus a teleconverter and 645-K adapter, right angle finder, 2x magnifier....and I spent waaaaaaay less than $53K. What I spent total is probably well within your price range, for all of that. And if you didn't need all of that....well, I'd say you might just be in trouble, my friend. Whatever you do, don't sit down and truly calculate the costs. Your wallet will be quickly lighter. But you'd be happy....

I bet I could focus using the OVF on a z

Sandy Hancock · 03-10-2018, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

I bet I could focus using the OVF on a z

Even I can

**monochrome** · 03-10-2018, 10:06 PM

Why don’t we just agree I need to get off the rumor threads, sell some stuff, do my lenses project, hang some nice prints in my office - and then we’ll talk about a bigger camera.

biz-engineer · 03-10-2018, 11:03 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

Maybe the K-1 will turn out to be better for something than the K-1ll and I’ll have both - who knows?

Still a few pending questions about K1 II improvements:
1) Is AFC with AE sensor really improved vs K1 original?
2) Will K1 get a firmware update that brings the same AFC improvement to the K1?
3) About the "accelerator chip": any perceived quality difference on prints?
4) Will the accelerator chip help in camera speed of operation?
5) Will the accelerator chip help to increase the number of consecutive shots stored in buffer?
6) Hand held pixel shift: what is the raw format like? (4 raw packaged into a single file? single raw file already processed?)
We definitely need side by side comparisons from some having both K1 and K1 II.

Sandy Hancock · 03-10-2018, 11:17 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Still a few pending questions about K1 II improvements:

I'll tell you in a month or so.

peterh337 · 03-11-2018, 01:22 AM

If you do noise reduction before moving the data into RAM then you will be able to store more images in RAM because noise inflates an image pointlessly.

This assumes you are storing compressed images, however, which is not the case if shooting RAW.

I am amazed Pentax is offering this upgrade without demonstrating clearly what it does.

Sandy Hancock · 03-11-2018, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by peterh337

I am amazed Pentax is offering this upgrade without demonstrating clearly what it does.

Ricoh has all the data they need, except sales.
I'm willing to trust their knowledge over your skepticism.

Snakeisthestuff · 03-11-2018, 02:27 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Still a few pending questions about K1 II improvements:
1) Is AFC with AE sensor really improved vs K1 original?
2) Will K1 get a firmware update that brings the same AFC improvement to the K1?
3) About the "accelerator chip": any perceived quality difference on prints?
4) Will the accelerator chip help in camera speed of operation?
5) Will the accelerator chip help to increase the number of consecutive shots stored in buffer?
6) Hand held pixel shift: what is the raw format like? (4 raw packaged into a single file? single raw file already processed?)
We definitely need side by side comparisons from some having both K1 and K1 II.

I asked for 4) at CP+ and the answer was no I am pretty sure this applies to 5) also.

The accerator chip is just a unit before the CPU, as they did not change any of the other infrastructure I would not expect any changes on buffer rate.

biz-engineer · 03-11-2018, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by Snakeisthestuff

I asked for 4) at CP+ and the answer was no I am pretty sure this applies to 5) also.

I was assuming that if RAW files contains less noise the size of each file would be smaller hence more throughput... but... I realize I'm wrong because less noise lead to smaller JPEGs however that does not apply to raw files... So yeah, no improvement in throughput.

From the photographs of the motherboards, where is the DRAM chip that acts as buffer. There are two chips beside the CPU but they look like SD card controllers rather than DRAM.

Gimbal · 03-11-2018, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I was assuming that if RAW files contains less noise the size of each file would be smaller hence more throughput... but... I realize I'm wrong because less noise lead to smaller JPEGs however that does not apply to raw files... So yeah, no improvement in throughput.

Both PEF and DNG are compressed so the idea is not entirely wrong.
On the other hand the accelerator chip does something with the data, and doing something usually takes time. At least it takes power so the number of pictures per battery charge is going down. That is a big minus.

awscreo · 03-11-2018, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

Both PEF and DNG are compressed so the idea is not entirely wrong.
On the other hand the accelerator chip does something with the data, and doing something usually takes time. At least it takes power so the number of pictures per battery charge is going down. That is a big minus.

Didn't know Pentax files are compressed. How come they're better quality than majority of other brands?

View Poll Results: Will you service upgrade your K-1 to K-1 II?
Yes	74	31.36%
No	29	12.29%
I have not decided yet	96	40.68%
Not relevant to me (I have another camera etc)	28	11.86%
No. I have a K-1 but will buy a new K-1 II	9	3.81%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

03-10-2018, 02:20 PM - 1 Like	#77
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by texandrews Wow. Well, looks like you've just decided to commit to more than just a new purchase. Tell us more! I don’t want to be an early adopter for the upgrade. I like what the Accelerator Unit does in the KP. I like the OVF on the K-1 - I can focus manual lenses on K-1. And there’s a context. This is a hobby for me, not a business. I like using Pentax gear and have for 45 years. I buy mostly old things, try them and sell them - or keep them sometimes. I actively collect K series lenses. That’s I suppose a privilege of 45 years of hard work and frugal living, so now I can be a bit extravagant in this (but I still drive a Honda and have no debt whatsoever). It’s just choices. I don’t spend money on things normal people spend money on. I do this. When the K-1 was released the plan was to use all those manual full frame lenses as the Powers That Be intended they be used. I walked into my local dealer Day 1 and bought it over the counter. I sold the K-3 and eventually boxed all the DA’s to be sold because even AF crop shooting on the great big OVF just didn’t work for me - then someone had gotten in over his head and offered me a nice collection of really fine FA* lenses, low serial FA Limiteds - and a spanking new silver KP. I got sidetracked. I was / am really impressed by the KP itself, but all I do with it is snapshots of my grandchildren. Good as it is - good as the DA Limiteds are - that’s too much money to sit in a bag when I always reach for the K-1 first. I also have AIV FA Limiteds I bought new that the MIJ ones should replace. And some other neat old stuff that has been fun, but it’s time to let it go. Money wise it’s very likely many more dollars in than dollars out. The 35 Macro is a special lens (I still have a K-01 and a K10D if it comes down to it and I like that sensor better anyway). Maybe the K-1 will turn out to be better for something than the K-1ll and I’ll have both - who knows? If not, I’ll sell it next year and I bet my cost will have been $35 a month for three years. People spend $35 a WEEK at Starbucks - and you know where it goes and hour later But the real deal is the original plan. Convert to FF - shoot with all those K lenses - document them - print them - as an intentional project. Real Resolution with them should be neat. ISO 3200-6400 should be better. Maybe AF will be a bit better - who knows. OTOH maybe K-1 will have better long exposure base ISO RAW’s. Maybe it will just be my Macro camera - there are worse ideas. Maybe it’s just dumb. But there are already half a dozen K-1’s on the Market here. I’m not selling into that. Just pray I never win the Lottery. I’d be on the phone to B&H for a 645z and the entire catalog of 645 lenses, “And I don't care if you have to special order it!” (That’s roughly $53,000, right?) Then I PM. Last edited by monochrome; 03-10-2018 at 02:56 PM.

03-10-2018, 11:03 PM - 1 Like	#83
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,247	Originally posted by monochrome Maybe the K-1 will turn out to be better for something than the K-1ll and I’ll have both - who knows? Still a few pending questions about K1 II improvements: 1) Is AFC with AE sensor really improved vs K1 original? 2) Will K1 get a firmware update that brings the same AFC improvement to the K1? 3) About the "accelerator chip": any perceived quality difference on prints? 4) Will the accelerator chip help in camera speed of operation? 5) Will the accelerator chip help to increase the number of consecutive shots stored in buffer? 6) Hand held pixel shift: what is the raw format like? (4 raw packaged into a single file? single raw file already processed?) We definitely need side by side comparisons from some having both K1 and K1 II. Last edited by biz-engineer; 03-10-2018 at 11:08 PM.

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03-10-2018, 12:44 PM	#76
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by monochrome Preordered K-1II and keeping K-1. I’m selling the KP and all my DA lenses except the 35 Macro. Wow. Well, looks like you've just decided to commit to more than just a new purchase. Tell us more!

03-10-2018, 05:00 PM	#78
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by monochrome I like what the Accelerator Unit does in the KP. I love hearing that. Quote: People spend $35 a WEEK at Starbucks - and you know where it goes and hour later Hilarious! Too true. It's why I always have my thermos with me....well, not to recycle, you understand.... Quote: Just pray I never win the Lottery. I’d be on the phone to B&H for a 645z and the entire catalog of 645 lenses, “And I don't care if you have to special order it!” (That’s roughly $53,000, right?) Then I PM. ummmm...got some bad news for you. I have a Z and now 13 lenses (including my just purchased rarity, the DA 25...), plus a teleconverter and 645-K adapter, right angle finder, 2x magnifier....and I spent waaaaaaay less than $53K. What I spent total is probably well within your price range, for all of that. And if you didn't need all of that....well, I'd say you might just be in trouble, my friend. Whatever you do, don't sit down and truly calculate the costs. Your wallet will be quickly lighter. But you'd be happy....

03-10-2018, 05:26 PM	#79
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Originally posted by monochrome Preordered K-1II and keeping K-1. I’m selling the KP and all my DA lenses except the 35 Macro. I'm also committed to the upgrade on at least one of my two bodies, but I can't bring myself to completely part with my crop kit. Apart from the 35 limited, the 15 and 21 are pretty special too. I'm also keeping the 10-17, the 16-50, 50-135 and 55-300 into the foreseeable future, in part for the times I want to travel light, but also as a library of lenses for people (like my brother who now has my K-3) to borrow. And by the way, if you're interested in a capable 645Z kit much cheaper than you anticipate, flip me a PM

03-10-2018, 06:22 PM	#80
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by texandrews I love hearing that. Hilarious! Too true. It's why I always have my thermos with me....well, not to recycle, you understand.... ummmm...got some bad news for you. I have a Z and now 13 lenses (including my just purchased rarity, the DA 25...), plus a teleconverter and 645-K adapter, right angle finder, 2x magnifier....and I spent waaaaaaay less than $53K. What I spent total is probably well within your price range, for all of that. And if you didn't need all of that....well, I'd say you might just be in trouble, my friend. Whatever you do, don't sit down and truly calculate the costs. Your wallet will be quickly lighter. But you'd be happy.... I bet I could focus using the OVF on a z

03-10-2018, 09:02 PM	#81
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Originally posted by monochrome I bet I could focus using the OVF on a z Even I can

03-10-2018, 10:06 PM	#82
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Why don’t we just agree I need to get off the rumor threads, sell some stuff, do my lenses project, hang some nice prints in my office - and then we’ll talk about a bigger camera.

03-10-2018, 11:17 PM - 1 Like	#84
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Originally posted by biz-engineer Still a few pending questions about K1 II improvements: I'll tell you in a month or so.

03-11-2018, 01:22 AM	#85
peterh337 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: London Posts: 573	If you do noise reduction before moving the data into RAM then you will be able to store more images in RAM because noise inflates an image pointlessly. This assumes you are storing compressed images, however, which is not the case if shooting RAW. I am amazed Pentax is offering this upgrade without demonstrating clearly what it does.

03-11-2018, 01:30 AM	#86
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Originally posted by peterh337 I am amazed Pentax is offering this upgrade without demonstrating clearly what it does. Ricoh has all the data they need, except sales. I'm willing to trust their knowledge over your skepticism.

03-11-2018, 02:27 AM - 1 Like	#87
Snakeisthestuff Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 136	Originally posted by biz-engineer Still a few pending questions about K1 II improvements: 1) Is AFC with AE sensor really improved vs K1 original? 2) Will K1 get a firmware update that brings the same AFC improvement to the K1? 3) About the "accelerator chip": any perceived quality difference on prints? 4) Will the accelerator chip help in camera speed of operation? 5) Will the accelerator chip help to increase the number of consecutive shots stored in buffer? 6) Hand held pixel shift: what is the raw format like? (4 raw packaged into a single file? single raw file already processed?) We definitely need side by side comparisons from some having both K1 and K1 II. I asked for 4) at CP+ and the answer was no I am pretty sure this applies to 5) also. The accerator chip is just a unit before the CPU, as they did not change any of the other infrastructure I would not expect any changes on buffer rate.

03-11-2018, 04:44 AM	#88
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,247	Originally posted by Snakeisthestuff I asked for 4) at CP+ and the answer was no I am pretty sure this applies to 5) also. I was assuming that if RAW files contains less noise the size of each file would be smaller hence more throughput... but... I realize I'm wrong because less noise lead to smaller JPEGs however that does not apply to raw files... So yeah, no improvement in throughput. From the photographs of the motherboards, where is the DRAM chip that acts as buffer. There are two chips beside the CPU but they look like SD card controllers rather than DRAM.

03-11-2018, 07:51 AM	#89
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by biz-engineer I was assuming that if RAW files contains less noise the size of each file would be smaller hence more throughput... but... I realize I'm wrong because less noise lead to smaller JPEGs however that does not apply to raw files... So yeah, no improvement in throughput. Both PEF and DNG are compressed so the idea is not entirely wrong. On the other hand the accelerator chip does something with the data, and doing something usually takes time. At least it takes power so the number of pictures per battery charge is going down. That is a big minus.

03-11-2018, 10:12 AM	#90
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by Gimbal Both PEF and DNG are compressed so the idea is not entirely wrong. On the other hand the accelerator chip does something with the data, and doing something usually takes time. At least it takes power so the number of pictures per battery charge is going down. That is a big minus. Didn't know Pentax files are compressed. How come they're better quality than majority of other brands?