K1 Mk ii. Is Pentax marketing as dead as Tony Northrup says?

MarkJerling · 02-24-2018, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Duvel999

Hi,

Link for Pentax K-1 II Prees kit in english:

PENTAX K-1 II - PxP PressKit | PENTAXever.com

Nice one. Thanks for posting the link.

awscreo · 02-24-2018, 05:34 PM

"What's dead can never die"

Fenwoodian · 02-24-2018, 06:37 PM

.
Tony, while skeptical that "dynamic pixel shift" will work as advertised, he did say that if it does work it will be a major step forward in digital photography. So, I for one look forward to his full review. If he finds the new pixel shift works handheld, he'll trumpet it to the world. Such a review would prompt many Nikon/Canon/Sony folks to buy a K1ii.

Also, I'm glad to see that Tony himself made this video. He's featuring his wife in more of his videos these days. Now there's a photography newb I'd never take any advice from...

biz-engineer · 02-24-2018, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by Fenwoodian

Tony, while skeptical that "dynamic pixel shift" will work as advertised, he did say that if it does work it will be a major step forward in digital photography.

I don't think Tony understood the technical trick. Some Sony A6K do in camera align & stack as a feature for low light photography without a tripod. I suspect Pixel shift hand-held is simply 4 frames captured in ES mode, aligned and stacked based on minimum error function between frames. It is relatively easy to do in software and in terms of noise level it's like shooting ISO25 at ISO set to 100. True Pixel shift is very constraining for landscape because a tripod is needed and any presence of wind will ruin the pixel shift quality . Auto align and stacking of the raw is only slightly less good then true pixel shift because it doesn't correct for pixel mismatch, but on the other hand doesn't require a tripod it's a huge benefit on usability.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-24-2018 at 11:57 PM.

**ffking** · 02-25-2018, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by Duvel999

Hi,

Link for Pentax K-1 II Prees kit in english:

PENTAX K-1 II - PxP PressKit | PENTAXever.com

Great - thanks

**monochrome** · 02-25-2018, 10:57 AM

Have we forgotten Tony whining that Pentax wouldn’t give him a pre-release K-1 last time? There’s a thread here somewhere: “Tony needs a K-1”

**Mikesul** · 02-25-2018, 11:52 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by monochrome

Have we forgotten Tony whining that Pentax wouldn’t give him a pre-release K-1 last time? There’s a thread here somewhere: “Tony needs a K-1”

He wanted a loaner so he could do a review. Sony and others get tons of free marketing by making it easy for reviewers to handle the equipment. That was all he wanted and he gave a very positive review once he was loaned one by a viewer. He followed up with an hour plus instruction video on the K-1. His Pentax reviews are generally favorable but he thinks there should be more, modern lenses. I understand that many here do not like him but he is very reasonable when compared to other youtubers. I would never have learned anything if I only listened to people who agreed with me.

**monochrome** · 02-25-2018, 12:37 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Mikesul

He wanted a loaner so he could do a review. Sony and others get tons of free marketing by making it easy for reviewers to handle the equipment. That was all he wanted and he gave a very positive review once he was loaned one by a viewer. He followed up with an hour plus instruction video on the K-1. His Pentax reviews are generally favorable but he thinks there should be more, modern lenses. I understand that many here do not like him but he is very reasonable when compared to other youtubers. I would never have learned anything if I only listened to people who agreed with me.

What almost no one understands about marketing expense in North America is, Advertising expense is tiny. The vast majority of marketing expense (part of SG&A) falls into three areas: Dealer Rep and salaried HQ personnel compensation expense, Dealer Inventory financing (Floorplanning) Factor expense and Sales Promotion expense, including but not limited to Demo product samples. Pentax does none of that. Ricoh Imaging, NA doesn’t have a stack of loaner bodies and lenses on a shelf to draw one for Tony. Imaging Resource probably gets one. DPR might get one. Tony doesn’t get one.

If we would all pay $300 more for a K-1 ll he would, though.

**caliscouser** · 02-25-2018, 01:24 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

What almost no one understands about marketing expense in North America is, Advertising expense is tiny. The vast majority of marketing expense (part of SG&A) falls into three areas: Dealer Rep and salaried HQ personnel compensation expense, Dealer Inventory financing (Floorplanning) Factor expense and Sales Promotion expense, including but not limited to Demo product samples. Pentax does none of that. Ricoh Imaging, NA doesn’t have a stack of loaner bodies and lenses on a shelf to draw one for Tony. Imaging Resource probably gets one. DPR might get one. Tony doesn’t get one.

If we would all pay $300 more for a K-1 ll he would, though.

OR clear out some of the dead wood at HQ, and get someone who can drag their marketing into the 21st century.
If they can't spare any more review cameras because they are such a shoestring operation then Ricoh has no business owning the brand and they would be better off selling it to someone who will invest.

biz-engineer · 02-25-2018, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by caliscouser

If they can't spare any more review cameras because they are such a shoestring operation then Ricoh has no business owning the brand and they would be better off selling it to someone who will invest.

Ricoh do invest in Pentax, they most likely have 2 to 5 guys who worked 3 months on making the K1 II update (redesign of a PCB to reuse the chip already implemented in KP, update of K1 firmware and testing the whole thing). The level on investment is in line with sales.

**Rondec** · 02-25-2018, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by caliscouser

OR clear out some of the dead wood at HQ, and get someone who can drag their marketing into the 21st century.
If they can't spare any more review cameras because they are such a shoestring operation then Ricoh has no business owning the brand and they would be better off selling it to someone who will invest.

Ricoh has pretty much given up on the United States as a market. They are content to sell whatever they can through a number of online sellers like Amazon, B and H, and Adorama, but maybe because they don't understand the US market, they aren't willing to invest much otherwise.

Certainly, I don't know that getting Tony Northup a camera would be in my top twenty-five of things to do, if I were going to invest in marketing Pentax as a brand here.

**BigMackCam** · 02-25-2018, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

Ricoh has pretty much given up on the United States as a market. They are content to sell whatever they can through a number of online sellers like Amazon, B and H, and Adorama, but maybe because they don't understand the US market, they aren't willing to invest much otherwise.

Honestly, that really doesn't sound any different to the UK. We have a few major Pentax dealers - SRS, Wex etc. - and a few smaller dealers who carry a reduced number of items, or will get stock in to order. And then we have Amazon UK. Similar to Precision in the USA, there's a third party service official service operation, Johnsons Photopia Ltd., and Ricoh's European hub is in France.

I don't feel like Ricoh has given up on the UK... it's been this way since I switched to Pentax back in 2010. But I'd agree that Ricoh seems happy to sell what it sells here, and the way that it does so. It could achieve so much more with good marketing, but maybe that's just not the plan. I'm OK with that...

**monochrome** · 02-25-2018, 02:29 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by caliscouser

OR clear out some of the dead wood at HQ, and get someone who can drag their marketing into the 21st century.
If they can't spare any more review cameras because they are such a shoestring operation then Ricoh has no business owning the brand and they would be better off selling it to someone who will invest.

Buh Bye

**Rondec** · 02-25-2018, 02:31 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Honestly, that really doesn't sound any different to the UK. We have a few major Pentax dealers - SRS, Wex etc. - and a few smaller dealers who carry a reduced number of items, or will get stock in to order. And then we have Amazon UK. Similar to Precision in the USA, there's a third party service official service operation, Johnsons Photopia Ltd., and Ricoh's European hub is in France.

I don't feel like Ricoh has given up on the UK... it's been this way since I switched to Pentax back in 2010. But I'd agree that Ricoh seems happy to sell what it sells here, and the way that it does so. It could achieve so much more with good marketing, but maybe that's just not the plan. I'm OK with that...

I guess I would just say that they are more focused on Asia and Japan, in particular, and probably do a lot more marketing there than elsewhere. If I were Japanese, I would probably have a bit different view on Pentax's presence in the marketplace.

Sweets · 02-25-2018, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Andy Fern

Here's Tony Northrup's preview of the K1 mk ii. He pessimistic about the Dynamic pixel shift and AF improvements but probably of more concern is the implication that Pentax marketing is quite dead.
Pentax K-1 Mark II Preview: Handheld Pixel-Shift, 36 MP, $2,000! - YouTube

I think: let's just wait and see when the first users give their opinion? Like others wrote here i agree: it's guissing without having the cam on hand. Time will tell and if i can affort the upgrade i will upgrade my K-1.

Stay good :-)

02-24-2018, 06:37 PM	#48
Fenwoodian Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,874	. Tony, while skeptical that "dynamic pixel shift" will work as advertised, he did say that if it does work it will be a major step forward in digital photography. So, I for one look forward to his full review. If he finds the new pixel shift works handheld, he'll trumpet it to the world. Such a review would prompt many Nikon/Canon/Sony folks to buy a K1ii. Also, I'm glad to see that Tony himself made this video. He's featuring his wife in more of his videos these days. Now there's a photography newb I'd never take any advice from... Last edited by Fenwoodian; 02-24-2018 at 07:10 PM.

02-25-2018, 01:38 PM	#55
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,223	Originally posted by caliscouser If they can't spare any more review cameras because they are such a shoestring operation then Ricoh has no business owning the brand and they would be better off selling it to someone who will invest. Ricoh do invest in Pentax, they most likely have 2 to 5 guys who worked 3 months on making the K1 II update (redesign of a PCB to reuse the chip already implemented in KP, update of K1 firmware and testing the whole thing). The level on investment is in line with sales. Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-25-2018 at 01:46 PM.

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02-24-2018, 05:07 PM	#46
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,402	Originally posted by Duvel999 Hi, Link for Pentax K-1 II Prees kit in english: PENTAX K-1 II - PxP PressKit \| PENTAXever.com Nice one. Thanks for posting the link.

02-24-2018, 05:34 PM	#47
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	"What's dead can never die"

02-24-2018, 11:52 PM	#49
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,223	Originally posted by Fenwoodian Tony, while skeptical that "dynamic pixel shift" will work as advertised, he did say that if it does work it will be a major step forward in digital photography. I don't think Tony understood the technical trick. Some Sony A6K do in camera align & stack as a feature for low light photography without a tripod. I suspect Pixel shift hand-held is simply 4 frames captured in ES mode, aligned and stacked based on minimum error function between frames. It is relatively easy to do in software and in terms of noise level it's like shooting ISO25 at ISO set to 100. True Pixel shift is very constraining for landscape because a tripod is needed and any presence of wind will ruin the pixel shift quality . Auto align and stacking of the raw is only slightly less good then true pixel shift because it doesn't correct for pixel mismatch, but on the other hand doesn't require a tripod it's a huge benefit on usability. Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-24-2018 at 11:57 PM.

02-25-2018, 01:26 AM	#50
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by Duvel999 Hi, Link for Pentax K-1 II Prees kit in english: PENTAX K-1 II - PxP PressKit \| PENTAXever.com Great - thanks

02-25-2018, 10:57 AM	#51
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Have we forgotten Tony whining that Pentax wouldn’t give him a pre-release K-1 last time? There’s a thread here somewhere: “Tony needs a K-1”

02-25-2018, 11:52 AM - 2 Likes	#52
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,591	Originally posted by monochrome Have we forgotten Tony whining that Pentax wouldn’t give him a pre-release K-1 last time? There’s a thread here somewhere: “Tony needs a K-1” He wanted a loaner so he could do a review. Sony and others get tons of free marketing by making it easy for reviewers to handle the equipment. That was all he wanted and he gave a very positive review once he was loaned one by a viewer. He followed up with an hour plus instruction video on the K-1. His Pentax reviews are generally favorable but he thinks there should be more, modern lenses. I understand that many here do not like him but he is very reasonable when compared to other youtubers. I would never have learned anything if I only listened to people who agreed with me.

02-25-2018, 12:37 PM - 2 Likes	#53
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Mikesul He wanted a loaner so he could do a review. Sony and others get tons of free marketing by making it easy for reviewers to handle the equipment. That was all he wanted and he gave a very positive review once he was loaned one by a viewer. He followed up with an hour plus instruction video on the K-1. His Pentax reviews are generally favorable but he thinks there should be more, modern lenses. I understand that many here do not like him but he is very reasonable when compared to other youtubers. I would never have learned anything if I only listened to people who agreed with me. What almost no one understands about marketing expense in North America is, Advertising expense is tiny. The vast majority of marketing expense (part of SG&A) falls into three areas: Dealer Rep and salaried HQ personnel compensation expense, Dealer Inventory financing (Floorplanning) Factor expense and Sales Promotion expense, including but not limited to Demo product samples. Pentax does none of that. Ricoh Imaging, NA doesn’t have a stack of loaner bodies and lenses on a shelf to draw one for Tony. Imaging Resource probably gets one. DPR might get one. Tony doesn’t get one. If we would all pay $300 more for a K-1 ll he would, though.

02-25-2018, 01:24 PM - 1 Like	#54
caliscouser Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,037	Originally posted by monochrome What almost no one understands about marketing expense in North America is, Advertising expense is tiny. The vast majority of marketing expense (part of SG&A) falls into three areas: Dealer Rep and salaried HQ personnel compensation expense, Dealer Inventory financing (Floorplanning) Factor expense and Sales Promotion expense, including but not limited to Demo product samples. Pentax does none of that. Ricoh Imaging, NA doesn’t have a stack of loaner bodies and lenses on a shelf to draw one for Tony. Imaging Resource probably gets one. DPR might get one. Tony doesn’t get one. If we would all pay $300 more for a K-1 ll he would, though. OR clear out some of the dead wood at HQ, and get someone who can drag their marketing into the 21st century. If they can't spare any more review cameras because they are such a shoestring operation then Ricoh has no business owning the brand and they would be better off selling it to someone who will invest.

02-25-2018, 01:51 PM	#56
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by caliscouser OR clear out some of the dead wood at HQ, and get someone who can drag their marketing into the 21st century. If they can't spare any more review cameras because they are such a shoestring operation then Ricoh has no business owning the brand and they would be better off selling it to someone who will invest. Ricoh has pretty much given up on the United States as a market. They are content to sell whatever they can through a number of online sellers like Amazon, B and H, and Adorama, but maybe because they don't understand the US market, they aren't willing to invest much otherwise. Certainly, I don't know that getting Tony Northup a camera would be in my top twenty-five of things to do, if I were going to invest in marketing Pentax as a brand here.

02-25-2018, 02:19 PM	#57
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,642	Originally posted by Rondec Ricoh has pretty much given up on the United States as a market. They are content to sell whatever they can through a number of online sellers like Amazon, B and H, and Adorama, but maybe because they don't understand the US market, they aren't willing to invest much otherwise. Honestly, that really doesn't sound any different to the UK. We have a few major Pentax dealers - SRS, Wex etc. - and a few smaller dealers who carry a reduced number of items, or will get stock in to order. And then we have Amazon UK. Similar to Precision in the USA, there's a third party service official service operation, Johnsons Photopia Ltd., and Ricoh's European hub is in France. I don't feel like Ricoh has given up on the UK... it's been this way since I switched to Pentax back in 2010. But I'd agree that Ricoh seems happy to sell what it sells here, and the way that it does so. It could achieve so much more with good marketing, but maybe that's just not the plan. I'm OK with that...

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02-25-2018, 02:29 PM - 1 Like	#58
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by caliscouser OR clear out some of the dead wood at HQ, and get someone who can drag their marketing into the 21st century. If they can't spare any more review cameras because they are such a shoestring operation then Ricoh has no business owning the brand and they would be better off selling it to someone who will invest. Buh Bye

02-25-2018, 02:31 PM - 1 Like	#59
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by BigMackCam Honestly, that really doesn't sound any different to the UK. We have a few major Pentax dealers - SRS, Wex etc. - and a few smaller dealers who carry a reduced number of items, or will get stock in to order. And then we have Amazon UK. Similar to Precision in the USA, there's a third party service official service operation, Johnsons Photopia Ltd., and Ricoh's European hub is in France. I don't feel like Ricoh has given up on the UK... it's been this way since I switched to Pentax back in 2010. But I'd agree that Ricoh seems happy to sell what it sells here, and the way that it does so. It could achieve so much more with good marketing, but maybe that's just not the plan. I'm OK with that... I guess I would just say that they are more focused on Asia and Japan, in particular, and probably do a lot more marketing there than elsewhere. If I were Japanese, I would probably have a bit different view on Pentax's presence in the marketplace.

02-25-2018, 02:45 PM	#60
Sweets Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 33	Originally posted by Andy Fern Here's Tony Northrup's preview of the K1 mk ii. He pessimistic about the Dynamic pixel shift and AF improvements but probably of more concern is the implication that Pentax marketing is quite dead. Pentax K-1 Mark II Preview: Handheld Pixel-Shift, 36 MP, $2,000! - YouTube I think: let's just wait and see when the first users give their opinion? Like others wrote here i agree: it's guissing without having the cam on hand. Time will tell and if i can affort the upgrade i will upgrade my K-1. Stay good :-)