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03-27-2018, 09:59 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
First - I understand the frustration and the analysis paralysis.

Second - the D750 is a remarkable camera. But it is not the camera that competes head to head with the K1 typically. The D810 is more often cited as the camera to compare and has a very different use pattern from the D750. If the D750 seems right then the K1 is probably wrong. If the K1 seems right then the D750 is probably wrong - but look at the D810 as an alternative. And don't forget your current crop camera could be just the right camera for you - if only some features were fixed. So perhaps look at the KP and the latest crop cameras from Nikon. (D7500 for instance)
I didnt like the d810s fixed screen, dual format cards, or extra cost (+600 refurbished)
The kp lacks a lot of what I love about the k3ii. I was disappointed CP came and went with no mention of a crop body flagship replacement.

03-27-2018, 10:18 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greenneck Quote
i already struggle with the k3ii auto focus and I would really like a system people consider "great"
If you're just speaking here of others' opinions of your system, then you shouldn't use this as a factor in your decision. (Unless you are really just talking about evaluation of how the autofocus performance is, in which case you might have phrased it differently.)

K-1 has a slower frame rate and smaller buffer than the K-3. If this is important to you, the K-1 might not be a good choice. (But then maybe neither would the Nikon 810.) The higher megapixels take more power to move around.
03-27-2018, 11:36 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greenneck Quote
Could use some hand holding for my FF decision (upgrade/leave advice)
It is definitely a tough time for selecting cameras. Due to market changing rapidly, Canon and Nikon may jump into mirrorless and will create a momentum moving the full camera market to mirrorless, rendering new mirrorless lenses preferable to former DSLR lenses. When Canon and Nikon will offer mirrorless, DSLR may disappear in less than 5 years, all lenses purchased now will have a short life time. So my advice would be to buy the least possible number of lenses (2 lenses, for instance) the ones you use a lot, and select the camera to mount the lenses on.
03-27-2018, 11:54 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greenneck Quote
I struggle in street scenes where i have less than 5 second to compose, focus and get a shot or miss it forever
I think that the time you can shave off your composition time by practice and best practice vastly outweighs the difference between the AF of Pentax cameras and that of Canikony's finest - people used to do great street photography with manual focus after all - some still do!

03-28-2018, 12:11 AM - 1 Like   #20
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+1. A new camera will not make up for unfamiliarity with current equipment, or lack of practice. As great as AF is, it becomes a hindrance at times. A smaller aperture and usng zone focusing in street photography allows for more to be in focus without waiting for the AF to catch up. Also, consider using a slower shutter speed to isolate the interesting person who is not moving from the others who are moving. There is also the technique of pre-composing, watchng a subject, focusing, composing, and waiting for the moment ypu expect when the subject will do that interesting thing that makes the picture.

In reading over the OP's posts, I think that a FF camera is not needed, an APS-C offers advantages for most of the styles the OP likes, and the K3 is the top of the line, and most of the lenses already owned are very good. Even My K-5 gives results that allow shots to be printed at 16x20 with no noise or pixellation, the K3 is better.

I will admit to wanting a K-1, but I the results I get with my K-5 when I pay attention to the basics of photgraphy, proper technique and composition, and proper settings prove to me that I can fantastic results and do not need FF.

Also, why not rent a K-1 and competitors and see which is best for you?

Last edited by robgski; 03-28-2018 at 03:33 AM.
03-28-2018, 02:38 AM   #21
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Consider contacting pentax users in your area:
Worldwide Pentax User Map - PentaxForums.com
Within about 60 miles you have 13 pentax users on the map and there may be more people who have not registered.
Some of them are probably interested in showing their lenses.
You can also form a group, meeting once a month, maybe take a trip sometimes, street photo, landscape ...

A 3d print on K3 Super can appear on photokina in September, but probably later.
03-28-2018, 05:38 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greenneck Quote
I didnt like the d810s fixed screen, dual format cards, or extra cost (+600 refurbished)
The kp lacks a lot of what I love about the k3ii. I was disappointed CP came and went with no mention of a crop body flagship replacement.
All good reasons. I too consider the KP a step too little and I'm waiting for a k3ii replacement before making further decisions. I am torn between k1 and k3, with a good collection of lenses ff and crop that makes brand switching complicated. Honestly the hand wringing aside, you'll do fine with either Pentax or Nikon. Good luck either way.
03-28-2018, 05:46 AM - 2 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Getting thin DoF on a street scene isn't what I do anyway. I want 24-36" focus zone, so I set aperture for my lens fl and shooting distance to achieve that. I frequently start at f/5.6 with a 105mm lens (@ 12ft. subject distance = 2-ish ft. focus zone on K-3ll). I use a MF lens and pretty much manage my focus by distance like I did with film cameras
Sometimes a thin dof is needed because:
1. the background is not that interested
2. you want to separate the subject from the background so that the background doesn't become a distraction
3. you want to blur the other persons that may be in the frame and may distract the viewer from the subject or you just to give a motion feeling to the image

It is harder to do that at f5.6 and manual focus.

Below it's a street portrait taken at f2.5 with a 85mm lens. An f5.6 aperture for this shot wouldn't have been ideal and I had about 15-20 seconds to take 10-12 images before it turned green at the traffic light. The girl walked towards me and in the same time I moved backwards to keep the distance between us. Manual focus is also out of question for this kind of shot. So...you rely on focus speed and accuracy. Of course that you can take this kind of images with Pentax, but you need to put a little more effort sometimes. I do have another image (with other people in the frame also) that illustrate better what I want to say, but it is on my home computer.

IMG 3395 ? imgbb.com


Last edited by Dan Rentea; 06-11-2018 at 12:16 AM.
03-28-2018, 05:58 AM   #24
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The OP described shooting interesting street people, not a solo fashion shot. If a user regularly needs that kind of image and is convinced Pentax AF and lenses can’t reliably produce it - then Pentax is the wrong camera brand. People should just move on. Pentax isn’t going to become CaNiSony overnight - or probably ever.
03-28-2018, 06:05 AM - 1 Like   #25
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The D750 as far as I can tell is a great compromise camera. Better than average auto-focus, better than average IQ. Not really stellar at anything but better for folks who need faster AF. Most of us who are happy with Pentax can get along with the Pentax AF system.

One of the problems with Pentax is if the AF doesn't meet your needs. You have to start over with another system (or drastically improve your technique, which never seems to be the approved option in these kinds of discussions, even though it's often the most appropriate.

A D750 is a logical next step up from a K-3 if what you need is vastly improved AF.

You definitely aren't a K-1 candidate. The K-1 is marketed as field camera and is designed to give you your best bang for buck in the studio or shooting landscapes.

The most unhappy people on the forum are those who have never shot MF and who believe the the camera's AF system should cover for their lack of technique. The happiest may be those who discovered that the AF from another systems moves them from being a shooter with good technique to a shooter with good technique getting more keepers.

But the most common is people with out good technique trying to lean to heavily on the tech. The AF thing means you will get more keepers and it will be easier to get them , but if you aren't getting anything now, AF isn't your problem. Pentax AF will mean you don't get as many action type shots, but you should be getting some.

We have no way of evaluating which you are.
03-28-2018, 06:48 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The OP described shooting interesting street people, not a solo fashion shot.
That's why I said that I have another image that illustrates better what I wanted to say. It's a candid shot with a child who bought an ice cream and came running to her mother by bypassing people on the street. It was taken at f2.8 because I was shooting something else and I didn't had the time to make adjustements.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If a user regularly needs that kind of image and is convinced Pentax AF and lenses canít reliably produce it - then Pentax is the wrong camera brand. People should just move on. Pentax isnít going to become CaNiSony overnight - or probably ever.
People should try and rent or borrow the gear they are interested in and see if it does what they want, when they want. Most of the times Pentax af is good enough. But, as much as I hate EVF from mirrorless cameras (it gives me headaches) I may suggest to OP to try one because for street photography a small and light camera with fast af is more important than having a full frame DSLR, at least in my opinion. KP could also be an option, but without trying it it's hard to know if is good enough for him in terms of af and handling.
03-28-2018, 07:54 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgski Quote
+1. A new camera will not make up for unfamiliarity with current equipment, or lack of practice. As great as AF is, it becomes a hindrance at times. A smaller aperture and usng zone focusing in street photography allows for more to be in focus without waiting for the AF to catch up. Also, consider using a slower shutter speed to isolate the interesting person who is not moving from the others who are moving. There is also the technique of pre-composing, watchng a subject, focusing, composing, and waiting for the moment ypu expect when the subject will do that interesting thing that makes the picture.


I will admit to wanting a K-1, but I the results I get with my K-5 when I pay attention to the basics of photgraphy, proper technique and composition, and proper settings prove to me that I can fantastic results and do not need FF.

Also, why not rent a K-1 and competitors and see which is best for you?
I've looked at renting cameras, but after needing the body and at least one lens often the price is close to $200 for a few days which would only be enough time for me to evaluate a camera if I hated it. I don't have decades of experience with different bodies and lenses so I rely heavily on more experienced people's suggestions, reviews and statistics. A lot of the time I like to know I got the best performance per dollar possible that's why I bought into Pentax int he first place.


Granted my focus technique does need work, but I don't live in a city where I can practice everyday nor is street my main focus in photography as this discussion seems to have been turned towards. My main passion are landscapes and milky way nightscapes, but I don't really need any help with those just the lower noise levels and higher light gathering capictiy of full frame. Right now I'm spending hours image stacking (manually aligning 6+ star files takes time) and ending single images to try and make them look as clean and crisp as people who can get by with single raw exposures or stacks much smaller than mine requiring less computer power than I need.

Some people seem to be taking on a negative attitude towards me in their responses at this point. People seem to be taking a few negative points of mine, and instead of working through them with me, they're getting offended.


I'm also running a survey on Reddit about lenses, so far Pentax has a lens for every usage case anyone has brought up which makes me feel more at ease, except something like the Tamron 100-600 because of the quality and price difference with the 150-450. I am feeling more at ease wanting the K1 and more excited about the chance to spend long nights with it out in the mountains.
03-28-2018, 08:50 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greenneck Quote
except something like the Tamron 100-600 because of the quality and price difference with the 150-450
Somewhere in your journey you found a quality comparison between the 150-600?

I've been looking for one of those. The price difference is certainly there. But, WR, focus limiters, and questionable difference in IQ at the long end make this an interesting subject for me.

What I've seen on the forum certainly hasn't settled that one for me. I still wonder whether a D750 would produce better IQ than a K-1 and 150-450. The 150-600 has 33% more reach. The K-1 has 50% more pixels, I have no clue who wins that saw off.

The D7200 with a 150-450 compared to a K-3 with 150-400, would on paper appear to have an advantage, but I'd still like to see some mages that demonstrate that. In photography.

It's one of the burning photographic questions in my mind right now.
03-28-2018, 10:15 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
But, WR, focus limiters, and questionable difference in IQ at the long end make this an interesting subject for me.
Tamron 150-600mm G2 has a quite decent WR and it has also focus limiters. Opticaly is more than decent and the af is at the level of Canon 100-400mm (the first version) which is not bad at all.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I still wonder whether a D750 would produce better IQ than a K-1 and 150-450. The 150-600 has 33% more reach. The K-1 has 50% more pixels, I have no clue who wins that saw off.
Depends on what you are shooting. If you're shooting BIF, the winner will be the one who:
- will keep the bird in the frame long enough to shoot a burst of 8-12 shots
- will have a more fast and accurate af
- will have the better technique
- will have better fps

On the other hand, shooting a stationary bird with the gear you mentioned, I think in terms of image quality it will be hard to find a winner.

To the OP, if you are into landscape photography, K1 is hard to beat given all the featured that it has, features that are in my opinion optimised for this area of photography.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 03-28-2018 at 10:51 AM.
03-28-2018, 02:09 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greenneck Quote
  1. I bought a FA 31mm used with a minor lens coating issue and only have until Thursday to return it,.
  2. never used pixel shift because light room didn't support it
  3. My concerns with the k1 or mk2 are: lack of digital coating primes (that 31 limited has purple fringing past f8 with my subjects)
  4. the only dealer in the PNW hardly supports Pentax anymore,
  5. its hard to find anyone in person with Pentax stuff to try out or buy
  6. the zoom lenses seem to be modified g1 tamron lenses with out IS but they often cost as much or more than G2 Tamron glass,
  7. lack of variety of lenses at different prices,
  8. Knowing crop mode is only 15mp, thinking even the crop glass that covers the frame is likely lower performance than FF glass.
  9. If I don't stay here and go K1 Ill most likely go Nikon D750 giving up gps, I think there's more sub f2 prime lenses with modern lens coatings, I can try/ buy more in person, also have access to older used glass, would be easier to adapt to sony if I ever went mirror less afterwards.
You'd mention quite a lot aspects
Besides a lot of answers there's room for questions.
  1. What exactly do you mean with "minor lens coating issue"?
  2. Are you sure? There are several Threads about this topic. Maybe LR doesn't support everything, but why not just export it from the camera as tiff?
  3. How do you define "digital coating"? Pentax is THE lens coating expert as inventor of smc. I'm happy with my F*, FA and FA Limited lenses (300/20/31) on the K-1. And i do look at pixels sometimes
  4. Did you look at the Dealer Locator? Authorized Ricoh Imaging Americas Dealers
  5. Did you look at the Pentax User Map? Worldwide Pentax User Map - PentaxForums.com
  6. Pentax did the optical formula, so the soul of the lenses is always Pentax. The cost more because production numbers for CaNikon are higher than the one from Pentax.
  7. DA 50mm 1.8 performs well at the K-1, used F/FA AF lenses are available in US/EU/JP. With over 100 AF lenses i can't see the point of your argument.
  8. 15MP are enough for a good print in DIN A3 / 30x40cm. Even with the DA 560mm and DA 12-24mm in APS-C mode on the K-1, the image quality does satisfy me.
  9. Pentax coatings are at least as good as the competition. Even the 31 years old F* can compete with current lenses. Lenses from 1976 wouldn't fit to a nikon DSLR camera. Who knows if Pentax wouldn't bring a second K-mount MILC camera after the K-01? Which is of course an interesting camera. Which is available used for $200-300.
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