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Amoon · 03-30-2018, 05:03 PM

Hi guys. I've just read the article of Tiendapentaxeros.com (Pentax K-1 Mark II: primeras muestras) regarding the K-1II

They say that: "El mejor rendimiento lo encontramos al disparar en el formato PEF de Pentax, que ofrece más de dos pasos de ISO con respecto al archivo DNG de Adobe"

TRANSLATION: "The best performance is found when shooting in the Pentax PEF format, which offers more than two ISO steps in comparison to the Adobe DNG file"

What do you think? I've learned that PEF or DNG are the same but it seems that maybe starting with the K-1II things begun to change.

Adam · 03-30-2018, 05:11 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Amoon

Hi guys. I've just read the article of Tiendapentaxeros.com (Pentax K-1 Mark II: primeras muestras) regarding the K-1II

They say that: "El mejor rendimiento lo encontramos al disparar en el formato PEF de Pentax, que ofrece más de dos pasos de ISO con respecto al archivo DNG de Adobe"

TRANSLATION: "The best performance is found when shooting in the Pentax PEF format, which offers more than two ISO steps in comparison to the Adobe DNG file"

What do you think? I've learned that PEF or DNG are the same but it seems that maybe starting with the K-1II things begun to change.

This claim seems odd and is hard to believe as there is no supporting evidence in the article. Considering that a raw file format is simply a wrapper for unprocessed image data along with a bunch of metadata, if they're getting more DR from one file compared to the other, it mostly likely means it was just processed differently. Pentax doesn't currently offer lossy or "small" raw files as far as I'm aware.

There's no reason this should be any different than what we saw in the KP.

stevebrot · 03-30-2018, 05:12 PM

Did the author explain the rational for saying that?

The two file formats are fully data equivalent, but there may be subtle differences in how they are treated by the various supporting RAW converters, though two stops of ISO (assuming dynamic range is intended) is pretty substantial.

Edit: I read the article in full (thank you Goggle translate) and there is no explanation. I suspect a quirk in RAW conversion causing a problem with whatever metric is being used to measure dynamic range. A comment was made regarding the difference, but with no reply, after which commenting was closed. Captions indicate Lightroom. The K-1II is not yet supported by Adobe for PEF and DNG support would be limited to the embedded profile, so it is hard to say what was used for RAW processing.

Steve

stevebrot · 03-30-2018, 05:33 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by stevebrot

Captions indicate Lightroom. The K-1II is not yet supported by Adobe for PEF and DNG support would be limited to the embedded profile, so it is hard to say what was used for RAW processing.

The EXIF is our friend. The DNG export to JPEG for the dark towers photo has EXIF that shows DNG processing using Lightroom 4.4 for Mac. That means an embedded profile. Whether that profile could make maximum benefit from the K-1II enhancements is not known, but I suspect not. I suspect that PEF were processed using whatever version of PDCU shipped with the K-1II.

Steve

Amoon · 03-30-2018, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I suspect that PEF were processed using whatever version of PDCU shipped with the K-1II.
Steve

OK. In another article, they state that: "All photos.. obtained from the PEF files generated by each camera, converted to TIFF with the XnConvert program (it is not easy to find developers for this Pentax format) and saved finally with PhotoShop in JPEG format of the highest quality".

So, XnConvert is used to convert from PEF to TIFF.

stevebrot · 03-30-2018, 05:50 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

The EXIF is our friend. The DNG export to JPEG for the dark towers photo has EXIF that shows DNG processing using Lightroom 4.4 for Mac.

More interesting than the image processing is the stated lens used in the dark towers photo. EXIF indicates a code 4 48. That code is not currently known to ExifTool, but the image caption indicates "Tamron 17-35mm f/2.8-4".

~~Since when does Tamron make a 17-35mm FF lens in K-mount!?~~

Correction: Since about 2008 or maybe further back...

Steve

Fcsnt54 · 03-30-2018, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Amoon

OK. In another article, they state that: "All photos.. obtained from the PEF files generated by each camera, converted to TIFF with the XnConvert program (it is not easy to find developers for this Pentax format) and saved finally with PhotoShop in JPEG format of the highest quality".

So, XnConvert is used to convert from PEF to TIFF.

If they are going through that much trouble, why not just shoot in tiff?

If it is the case that there is more dynamic range in pef, has anyone tested it in other cameras to see if there is more dynamic range in pef than dng?

stevebrot · 03-30-2018, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Since when does Tamron make a 17-35mm FF lens in K-mount!?

Found it...legacy moderately-priced zoom...

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm F/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical [IF] Lens Reviews - Tamron Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

Steve

Adam · 03-30-2018, 06:22 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Fcsnt54

If they are going through that much trouble, why not just shoot in tiff?

It's not much better than JPEG in terms of image quality, since the in-camera processing gets applied to the file.

Adam · 03-30-2018, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Found it...legacy moderately-priced zoom...

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm F/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical [IF] Lens Reviews - Tamron Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

Steve

Speaking of that how is it possible that we have no product photo for this lens?

Not a Number · 03-30-2018, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Fcsnt54

If they are going through that much trouble, why not just shoot in tiff?

If it is the case that there is more dynamic range in pef, has anyone tested it in other cameras to see if there is more dynamic range in pef than dng?

Although there are no published standards for Raw files the data portion stripped of metadata should be tiff compatible. That's why many file recovery programs "restore" some of your files as .TIF rather than .PEF or .DNG.

leekil · 03-30-2018, 11:22 PM

Does PEF use 16-bit values to store the 14-bit values that the DNG contains? Is that where they are getting "2 extra stops"?

LensBeginner · 03-30-2018, 11:38 PM

Just remember that "tienda" means "shop" in Spanish... to me that alone gives an indication wether I should trust that source! XD

Adam · 03-31-2018, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by leekil

Does PEF use 16-bit values to store the 14-bit values that the DNG contains? Is that where they are getting "2 extra stops"?

Not as far as I know. The file sizes are nearly identical.

LensBeginner · 03-31-2018, 05:43 AM

Maybe they converted to TIFF-16...

03-30-2018, 05:03 PM	#1
Amoon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 155	PEF has 2 more ISO stops than DNG Hi guys. I've just read the article of Tiendapentaxeros.com (Pentax K-1 Mark II: primeras muestras) regarding the K-1II They say that: "El mejor rendimiento lo encontramos al disparar en el formato PEF de Pentax, que ofrece más de dos pasos de ISO con respecto al archivo DNG de Adobe" TRANSLATION: "The best performance is found when shooting in the Pentax PEF format, which offers more than two ISO steps in comparison to the Adobe DNG file" What do you think? I've learned that PEF or DNG are the same but it seems that maybe starting with the K-1II things begun to change.

03-30-2018, 05:11 PM - 3 Likes	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	Originally posted by Amoon Hi guys. I've just read the article of Tiendapentaxeros.com (Pentax K-1 Mark II: primeras muestras) regarding the K-1II They say that: "El mejor rendimiento lo encontramos al disparar en el formato PEF de Pentax, que ofrece más de dos pasos de ISO con respecto al archivo DNG de Adobe" TRANSLATION: "The best performance is found when shooting in the Pentax PEF format, which offers more than two ISO steps in comparison to the Adobe DNG file" What do you think? I've learned that PEF or DNG are the same but it seems that maybe starting with the K-1II things begun to change. This claim seems odd and is hard to believe as there is no supporting evidence in the article. Considering that a raw file format is simply a wrapper for unprocessed image data along with a bunch of metadata, if they're getting more DR from one file compared to the other, it mostly likely means it was just processed differently. Pentax doesn't currently offer lossy or "small" raw files as far as I'm aware. There's no reason this should be any different than what we saw in the KP. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

03-30-2018, 05:12 PM	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Did the author explain the rational for saying that? The two file formats are fully data equivalent, but there may be subtle differences in how they are treated by the various supporting RAW converters, though two stops of ISO (assuming dynamic range is intended) is pretty substantial. Edit: I read the article in full (thank you Goggle translate) and there is no explanation. I suspect a quirk in RAW conversion causing a problem with whatever metric is being used to measure dynamic range. A comment was made regarding the difference, but with no reply, after which commenting was closed. Captions indicate Lightroom. The K-1II is not yet supported by Adobe for PEF and DNG support would be limited to the embedded profile, so it is hard to say what was used for RAW processing. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 03-30-2018 at 05:25 PM.

03-30-2018, 05:50 PM - 1 Like	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by stevebrot The EXIF is our friend. The DNG export to JPEG for the dark towers photo has EXIF that shows DNG processing using Lightroom 4.4 for Mac. More interesting than the image processing is the stated lens used in the dark towers photo. EXIF indicates a code 4 48. That code is not currently known to ExifTool, but the image caption indicates "Tamron 17-35mm f/2.8-4". ~~Since when does Tamron make a 17-35mm FF lens in K-mount!?~~ Correction: Since about 2008 or maybe further back... Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 03-30-2018 at 06:18 PM.

03-30-2018, 06:05 PM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by stevebrot Since when does Tamron make a 17-35mm FF lens in K-mount!? Found it...legacy moderately-priced zoom... Tamron SP AF 17-35mm F/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical [IF] Lens Reviews - Tamron Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 03-30-2018 at 06:16 PM.

03-30-2018, 05:33 PM - 2 Likes	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by stevebrot Captions indicate Lightroom. The K-1II is not yet supported by Adobe for PEF and DNG support would be limited to the embedded profile, so it is hard to say what was used for RAW processing. The EXIF is our friend. The DNG export to JPEG for the dark towers photo has EXIF that shows DNG processing using Lightroom 4.4 for Mac. That means an embedded profile. Whether that profile could make maximum benefit from the K-1II enhancements is not known, but I suspect not. I suspect that PEF were processed using whatever version of PDCU shipped with the K-1II. Steve

03-30-2018, 05:39 PM	#5
Amoon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 155 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot I suspect that PEF were processed using whatever version of PDCU shipped with the K-1II. Steve OK. In another article, they state that: "All photos.. obtained from the PEF files generated by each camera, converted to TIFF with the XnConvert program (it is not easy to find developers for this Pentax format) and saved finally with PhotoShop in JPEG format of the highest quality". So, XnConvert is used to convert from PEF to TIFF.

03-30-2018, 05:57 PM	#7
Fcsnt54 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: California Posts: 621	Originally posted by Amoon OK. In another article, they state that: "All photos.. obtained from the PEF files generated by each camera, converted to TIFF with the XnConvert program (it is not easy to find developers for this Pentax format) and saved finally with PhotoShop in JPEG format of the highest quality". So, XnConvert is used to convert from PEF to TIFF. If they are going through that much trouble, why not just shoot in tiff? If it is the case that there is more dynamic range in pef, has anyone tested it in other cameras to see if there is more dynamic range in pef than dng?

03-30-2018, 06:22 PM - 1 Like	#9
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	Originally posted by Fcsnt54 If they are going through that much trouble, why not just shoot in tiff? It's not much better than JPEG in terms of image quality, since the in-camera processing gets applied to the file. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

03-30-2018, 06:23 PM	#10
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	Originally posted by stevebrot Found it...legacy moderately-priced zoom... Tamron SP AF 17-35mm F/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical [IF] Lens Reviews - Tamron Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database Steve Speaking of that how is it possible that we have no product photo for this lens? Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

03-30-2018, 08:37 PM	#11
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by Fcsnt54 If they are going through that much trouble, why not just shoot in tiff? If it is the case that there is more dynamic range in pef, has anyone tested it in other cameras to see if there is more dynamic range in pef than dng? Although there are no published standards for Raw files the data portion stripped of metadata should be tiff compatible. That's why many file recovery programs "restore" some of your files as .TIF rather than .PEF or .DNG.

03-30-2018, 11:22 PM	#12
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Does PEF use 16-bit values to store the 14-bit values that the DNG contains? Is that where they are getting "2 extra stops"?

03-30-2018, 11:38 PM	#13
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Just remember that "tienda" means "shop" in Spanish... to me that alone gives an indication wether I should trust that source! XD

03-31-2018, 12:11 AM	#14
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	Originally posted by leekil Does PEF use 16-bit values to store the 14-bit values that the DNG contains? Is that where they are getting "2 extra stops"? Not as far as I know. The file sizes are nearly identical. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

03-31-2018, 05:43 AM	#15
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Maybe they converted to TIFF-16...

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