K-1 MK2 - Unhappy with results at moderate ISO settings

aikaarska · 04-18-2018, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Agreed.

I'd like to see the "star eater" comparison baseline... i.e. Camera A recorded *these* stars (A, B, C etc.) whilst camera B (the K-1II) didn't, or only recorded some of them...

I'd like too, more this kind of comparisons, also with different ISO values:

https://2.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~forums/61004247/064406d267d44881b362db2843d9aab5

(K-1 left, K-1M2 right, both ISO800, DNG, both pushed two stops in Lightroom)

This looks quite much what Sony's "star eater" spatial filtering do:

"Star eating" is a much bigger issue than I thought...: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

A7rIII 'Star Eater' test and a typical night scene: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Star Eater and Pixel Shift test: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Maybe we should do petition against Pentax new forced NR algorithm too?

Petition · Sony Remove Star Eater (EN) · Change.org

beholder3 · 04-18-2018, 02:05 AM

I consider posters making claims about raw file Features without providing those raw files at least liars.
In many cases there is even worse quality of Users.

aikaarska · 04-18-2018, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

I consider posters making claims about raw file Features without providing those raw files at least liars.
In many cases there is even worse quality of Users.

You can download some raw files from here:

Digicamera.net - Valokuvausfoorumi ? katso viestiketjua - Pentax K-1

Happy PP time ;-)

Ari

MMVIII · 04-18-2018, 03:44 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by aikaarska

I'd like too, more this kind of comparisons, also with different ISO values:

https://2.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~forums/61004247/064406d267d44881b362db2843d9aab5

(K-1 left, K-1M2 right, both ISO800, DNG, both pushed two stops in Lightroom)

This looks quite much what Sony's "star eater" spatial filtering do:

"Star eating" is a much bigger issue than I thought...: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

A7rIII 'Star Eater' test and a typical night scene: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Star Eater and Pixel Shift test: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Maybe we should do petition against Pentax new forced NR algorithm too?

Petition · Sony Remove Star Eater (EN) · Change.org

I don't see your claims supported at all. The first link has different information in the images than you give, ISO800 left, ISO3200 right. The image look slightly different, but there is a difference in the cropped area. The left seems to have more contrast/higher acutance, but at full view I can not identifie a single pixel of information that would not be present at the right image. Sometimes higher noise with higher acutance can also lead to the impression of higher sharpness, but there is not more information, only artefacts.

I guess you understand if people are critical to such claims without evidence, from a user with a do dozen posts, right?

Kunzite · 04-18-2018, 03:59 AM

I had a quick look at the RAWs - I notice no smoothing in the ISO800 RAW. At ISO3200 the noise is masking detail already.
However, those are low light (EV5) shots... and it looks to be tungsten light, making things worse.

By the way, Silkypix has different NR defaults for each ISO, even between ISO 100 and ISO 800, and I'd assume it's not the only software behaving this way

**iheiramo** · 04-18-2018, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by MMVIII

I guess you understand if people are critical to such claims without evidence, from a user with a do dozen posts, right?

Well, he did post the link to Finnish site with some useful test shots. On the site was also a link to original DNG files. For convenience I copy the test jpg shots below and if somebody is interested to download the originals click here.

ISO100:

ISO400:

ISO800:

ISO1600:

ISO3200:

To me it seems that op has find something worth consideration. It would be nice to see direct comparison between mk1 and mk2 thought this probably is irrelevant for my purposes as I don't print large.

aikaarska · 04-18-2018, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by MMVIII

I don't see your claims supported at all. The first link has different information in the images than you give, ISO800 left, ISO3200 right. The image look slightly different, but there is a difference in the cropped area. The left seems to have more contrast/higher acutance, but at full view I can not identifie a single pixel of information that would not be present at the right image. Sometimes higher noise with higher acutance can also lead to the impression of higher sharpness, but there is not more information, only artefacts.

I guess you understand if people are critical to such claims without evidence, from a user with a do dozen posts, right?

Uups, this is my mistake indeed,sorry. I did not notice that ISO difference. Anyway more samples needed in order to draw proper conclusions.

---------- Post added 04-18-18 at 04:45 AM ----------

Originally posted by iheiramo

Well,

To me it seems that op has find something worth consideration. It would be nice to see direct comparison between mk1 and mk2 thought this probably is irrelevant for my purposes as I don't print large.

Yes, there is indeed something worth consideration...mk1 handle >ISO800 exposures differently. Maybe better if you want see details in shadows etc

stevebrot · 04-18-2018, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by aikaarska

You can download some raw files from here:

Digicamera.net - Valokuvausfoorumi ? katso viestiketjua - Pentax K-1

Happy PP time ;-)

Ari

Apparently we are not the only folk requesting documentation and RAW files, though it would have been more helpful to not send us on a chase to find the link.

Goggle Translate:

Digicamera.net: Forum Post

And for convenience...the link for download:

2018-04-16.7z - Google Drive

BTW...what does one use to unpack a 7z archive?

Steve

Not a Number · 04-18-2018, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

BTW...what does one use to unpack a 7z archive?

7z Format

The only file compression I use these days.

stevebrot · 04-18-2018, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Not a Number

7z Format

The only file compression I use these days.

Translation: Download the 7-Zip archive software

7-Zip

Linux users and MacOS user will find download links on the downloads page. Other products such as WinRAR may also work.

Steve

biz-engineer · 04-18-2018, 11:50 AM

Looks like this K1 II made some waves around CP+, but I still haven't seen anything showing why I should buy the K1 II, and I don't see much activity about this model. A few people bought it, but they don't show anything worth considering, except silence.

johnkrumm · 04-18-2018, 01:57 PM - **3 Likes**

I just can't believe I downloaded several underexposed, bad white balanced shots of fur. At least now I know how to extract a 7z file.

stevebrot · 04-18-2018, 02:09 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by johnkrumm

I just can't believe I downloaded several underexposed, bad white balanced shots of fur. At least now I know how to extract a 7z file.

The day, indeed, is not wasted.

Steve

aikaarska · 04-18-2018, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

The day, indeed, is not wasted.

Steve

...underexposure is not a waste either, if you are testing the camera's performance - and know what you are doing ;-)

stevebrot · 04-18-2018, 02:21 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by aikaarska

...underexposure is not a waste either, if you are testing the camera's performance - and know what you are doing ;-)

Best to test one thing at a time.

Steve

04-18-2018, 11:05 AM	#53
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by aikaarska You can download some raw files from here: Digicamera.net - Valokuvausfoorumi ? katso viestiketjua - Pentax K-1 Happy PP time ;-) Ari Apparently we are not the only folk requesting documentation and RAW files, though it would have been more helpful to not send us on a chase to find the link. Goggle Translate: Digicamera.net: Forum Post And for convenience...the link for download: 2018-04-16.7z - Google Drive BTW...what does one use to unpack a 7z archive? Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 04-18-2018 at 11:32 AM. Reason: spelling

04-18-2018, 11:48 AM	#55
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Not a Number 7z Format The only file compression I use these days. Translation: Download the 7-Zip archive software 7-Zip Linux users and MacOS user will find download links on the downloads page. Other products such as WinRAR may also work. Steve

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04-18-2018, 12:38 AM	#46
aikaarska Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Finland Posts: 44	Originally posted by BigMackCam Agreed. I'd like to see the "star eater" comparison baseline... i.e. Camera A recorded these stars (A, B, C etc.) whilst camera B (the K-1II) didn't, or only recorded some of them... I'd like too, more this kind of comparisons, also with different ISO values: https://2.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~forums/61004247/064406d267d44881b362db2843d9aab5 (K-1 left, K-1M2 right, both ISO800, DNG, both pushed two stops in Lightroom) This looks quite much what Sony's "star eater" spatial filtering do: "Star eating" is a much bigger issue than I thought...: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review A7rIII 'Star Eater' test and a typical night scene: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Star Eater and Pixel Shift test: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Maybe we should do petition against Pentax new forced NR algorithm too? Petition · Sony Remove Star Eater (EN) · Change.org

04-18-2018, 02:05 AM	#47
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	I consider posters making claims about raw file Features without providing those raw files at least liars. In many cases there is even worse quality of Users.

04-18-2018, 02:56 AM	#48
aikaarska Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Finland Posts: 44	Originally posted by beholder3 I consider posters making claims about raw file Features without providing those raw files at least liars. In many cases there is even worse quality of Users. You can download some raw files from here: Digicamera.net - Valokuvausfoorumi ? katso viestiketjua - Pentax K-1 Happy PP time ;-) Ari

04-18-2018, 03:44 AM - 1 Like	#49
MMVIII Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: EU Posts: 1,121	Originally posted by aikaarska I'd like too, more this kind of comparisons, also with different ISO values: https://2.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~forums/61004247/064406d267d44881b362db2843d9aab5 (K-1 left, K-1M2 right, both ISO800, DNG, both pushed two stops in Lightroom) This looks quite much what Sony's "star eater" spatial filtering do: "Star eating" is a much bigger issue than I thought...: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review A7rIII 'Star Eater' test and a typical night scene: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Star Eater and Pixel Shift test: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Maybe we should do petition against Pentax new forced NR algorithm too? Petition · Sony Remove Star Eater (EN) · Change.org I don't see your claims supported at all. The first link has different information in the images than you give, ISO800 left, ISO3200 right. The image look slightly different, but there is a difference in the cropped area. The left seems to have more contrast/higher acutance, but at full view I can not identifie a single pixel of information that would not be present at the right image. Sometimes higher noise with higher acutance can also lead to the impression of higher sharpness, but there is not more information, only artefacts. I guess you understand if people are critical to such claims without evidence, from a user with a do dozen posts, right?

04-18-2018, 03:59 AM	#50
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I had a quick look at the RAWs - I notice no smoothing in the ISO800 RAW. At ISO3200 the noise is masking detail already. However, those are low light (EV5) shots... and it looks to be tungsten light, making things worse. By the way, Silkypix has different NR defaults for each ISO, even between ISO 100 and ISO 800, and I'd assume it's not the only software behaving this way

04-18-2018, 04:03 AM	#51
iheiramo Unoriginal Poster Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Espoo Photos: Albums Posts: 3,180	Originally posted by MMVIII I guess you understand if people are critical to such claims without evidence, from a user with a do dozen posts, right? Well, he did post the link to Finnish site with some useful test shots. On the site was also a link to original DNG files. For convenience I copy the test jpg shots below and if somebody is interested to download the originals click here. ISO100: ISO400: ISO800: ISO1600: ISO3200: To me it seems that op has find something worth consideration. It would be nice to see direct comparison between mk1 and mk2 thought this probably is irrelevant for my purposes as I don't print large.

04-18-2018, 04:29 AM	#52
aikaarska Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Finland Posts: 44	Originally posted by MMVIII I don't see your claims supported at all. The first link has different information in the images than you give, ISO800 left, ISO3200 right. The image look slightly different, but there is a difference in the cropped area. The left seems to have more contrast/higher acutance, but at full view I can not identifie a single pixel of information that would not be present at the right image. Sometimes higher noise with higher acutance can also lead to the impression of higher sharpness, but there is not more information, only artefacts. I guess you understand if people are critical to such claims without evidence, from a user with a do dozen posts, right? Uups, this is my mistake indeed,sorry. I did not notice that ISO difference. Anyway more samples needed in order to draw proper conclusions. ---------- Post added 04-18-18 at 04:45 AM ---------- Originally posted by iheiramo Well, To me it seems that op has find something worth consideration. It would be nice to see direct comparison between mk1 and mk2 thought this probably is irrelevant for my purposes as I don't print large. Yes, there is indeed something worth consideration...mk1 handle >ISO800 exposures differently. Maybe better if you want see details in shadows etc

04-18-2018, 11:10 AM	#54
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,525	Originally posted by stevebrot BTW...what does one use to unpack a 7z archive? 7z Format The only file compression I use these days.

04-18-2018, 11:50 AM	#56
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,225	Looks like this K1 II made some waves around CP+, but I still haven't seen anything showing why I should buy the K1 II, and I don't see much activity about this model. A few people bought it, but they don't show anything worth considering, except silence.

04-18-2018, 01:57 PM - 3 Likes	#57
johnkrumm Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Duluth, MN Posts: 141	I just can't believe I downloaded several underexposed, bad white balanced shots of fur. At least now I know how to extract a 7z file.

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04-18-2018, 02:09 PM - 3 Likes	#58
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by johnkrumm I just can't believe I downloaded several underexposed, bad white balanced shots of fur. At least now I know how to extract a 7z file. The day, indeed, is not wasted. Steve

04-18-2018, 02:14 PM	#59
aikaarska Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Finland Posts: 44	Originally posted by stevebrot The day, indeed, is not wasted. Steve ...underexposure is not a waste either, if you are testing the camera's performance - and know what you are doing ;-)

04-18-2018, 02:21 PM - 3 Likes	#60
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by aikaarska ...underexposure is not a waste either, if you are testing the camera's performance - and know what you are doing ;-) Best to test one thing at a time. Steve