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05-13-2018, 08:27 AM   #541
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote

These are professional tools in every respect.
Well, except in one key respect, which is similar to the Nikon-Canon duopoly (thankfully now changing, thanks mainly to Sony, the only company large enough and with the will to go after them head-on...). And that key aspect is the fact that the Adobe products are the ones used ubiquitously in the majority of graphics and photo studios in my industry, at least. Of course, I can always provide a finished tiff (these are required for most things I do professionally), but if I have to hot-seat between home and work, then I need to work with Adobe.


I don't have a special problem with LR6, and maybe now I won't with PS (although previously I found it ghastly to work with, and the price!), but I am increasingly aware of other excellent options....sigh. If only the general industry wasn't so mind-numbingly conservative. BTW, since 2005 I've been a user of LightZone, was its forums admin at the end, and since 2011 with others run the LightZone Project to keep that orphaned software alive, free and open-source.

05-13-2018, 08:46 AM   #542
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Well, except in one key respect, which is similar to the Nikon-Canon duopoly (thankfully now changing, thanks mainly to Sony, the only company large enough and with the will to go after them head-on...). And that key aspect is the fact that the Adobe products are the ones used ubiquitously in the majority of graphics and photo studios in my industry, at least. Of course, I can always provide a finished tiff (these are required for most things I do professionally), but if I have to hot-seat between home and work, then I need to work with Adobe.

I don't have a special problem with LR6, and maybe now I won't with PS (although previously I found it ghastly to work with, and the price!), but I am increasingly aware of other excellent options....sigh. If only the general industry wasn't so mind-numbingly conservative. BTW, since 2005 I've been a user of LightZone, was its forums admin at the end, and since 2011 with others run the LightZone Project to keep that orphaned software alive, free and open-source.
My post might have been worded better, I'll admit... what I meant was "these are professional-level tools in every respect" - i.e. they're more-or-less as capable as the Adobe products that are the professional mainstays. For amateur and independent professional photographers, they're darned good options. But I can certainly see why, if you use a suite or combination of tools at work, you wouldn't want to use something completely different at home
05-13-2018, 09:26 AM   #543
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
It could clone photoshop UI as it contains mostly the same features. But it could lead to massive legal problems.
...bit of an understatement that a Ferrari engine in a Fiat frame could lead to massive legal problems :^|
05-13-2018, 09:36 AM - 2 Likes   #544
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tan68 Quote
...bit of an understatement that a Ferrari engine in a Fiat frame could lead to massive legal problems :^|

Back in the day, they actually did this

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05-13-2018, 10:25 AM   #545
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Back in the day, they actually did this
I like the way that looks.
Very Diana Rigg

I like tires with sidewalls
Mine have a bit less but still a little meat

As far as big engine in little car, my first thought was V-8 Vega
Chevy V-8 engines in early 70's economy car were popular with some people...

1971 v-8 vega tubbed at DuckDuckGo

+ scrolling down, I see one image watermarked 'cars-in-UK.com'. Did you have Vega? Monza are a little different from Vega but maybe they sold those in Europe ?

Last edited by Tan68; 05-13-2018 at 10:39 AM.
05-13-2018, 04:08 PM   #546
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Diana Rigg drove a Lotus Elan in The Avengers TV series.
05-13-2018, 09:01 PM   #547
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Gimp is powerful but has weird and confusing UI. Ferrari engine in Fiat 600 frame.
I'm sorry you feel that way - I have no trouble at all in using gimp.

---------- Post added 05-14-18 at 12:12 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski:
One of the best methods to ruin your new hobby is to start with wrong tools. For it kills your creativity and understanding what you can do in post phase. Right tools work with any source material.
I'm not trying to be creative .... I'm trying to show exactly (*) what I saw on a particular day in my life, before tomorrow comes and things change.

(*) I put area of primary interest in middle of picture; in fifty years of this I've never demanded corner-to-corner sharpness, so animal {living or dead} in the corner has never mattered.


Last edited by reh321; 05-13-2018 at 09:29 PM.
05-14-2018, 07:51 AM   #548
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tan68 Quote
...bit of an understatement that a Ferrari engine in a Fiat frame could lead to massive legal problems :^|
I said cloning photoshop UI could lead to legal problems.
09-16-2018, 03:13 AM   #549
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I took some star trail stacks yesterday and exposed one frame @ ISO1600, 4 minutes. Here is crop from the frame with NR-module disabled in Lightroom:



DO NOT use higher than ISO400 when exposing the night sky. "Underexpose" @ ISO400 and push in post. Star trail stacks will look worse than 10 year old DSLR cameras if you go over the filtering limit. If stacked to full circle, filtered frames assemble into thick streaked low-definition rings. Also shown is Sony 36MP chroma noise which is there like with all Sony 36MP cameras when used at high ISO. Accelerator does not remove it but will blur it which also removes clear edges from faint point light sources.

Here is crop from ISO800, 30 second frame:



Now you see where those blurred streaks come from. After the filtering does not recognize high enough contrast difference, faint stars will be almost eaten out. This is worse than Sony-issue which completely loses some 1-pixel sized stars. Instead, we get smeared blobs all over.

Last edited by MJKoski; 09-16-2018 at 03:26 AM.
09-16-2018, 03:26 AM - 1 Like   #550
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
DO NOT use higher than ISO400 when exposing the night sky. "Underexpose" @ ISO400 and push in post. Star trail stacks will look worse than 10 year old DSLR cameras if you go over the filtering limit.
Interesting. Are we viewing 100% crops here?

Matti, do you have like-for-like examples between the K-1II and a 10-year-old DSLR that we can compare? It's a genuine question. I'd be interested to see the comparison. Your opinion is useful, and qualified, but as we've discussed and demonstrated before, there's often a subjective element involved...
09-16-2018, 03:34 AM   #551
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100% crops yes. Here is ISO400 crop from few weeks ago:



Absolutely beautiful rendition of night sky. All kinds of stars, bright and faint ones rendered like they should be. This kind of exposure will render smooth, clear, star trails. I will look at my archives for D3x frames, it is now 10 year old device.
09-16-2018, 06:01 PM   #552
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Glad I didn't upgrade I guess)
09-17-2018, 12:44 PM - 2 Likes   #553
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
Glad I didn't upgrade I guess)
This was actually my biggest concern about K-1 II, that you virtually have no control over its accelerator unit noise reduction process or algorithms.
Sure, you can try to work around its shortcomings by underexposing and then pushing ISO in post processing. But why can't you just turn this darn thing off when it is not needed is beyond my understanding. What Pentax engineers were thinking by implementing this "sledge hammer" noise reduction approach?
09-17-2018, 07:31 PM - 1 Like   #554
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
This is worse than Sony-issue which completely loses some 1-pixel sized stars. Instead, we get smeared blobs all over.
While I do not approve of Ricoh's mandatory RAW manipulation (they should have made it optional and thus could have avoided the DPReview drama and give photographers the choice they deserve), you haven't presented anything that corroborates your statements.

I actually mentioned astrophotography as one of the applications that could suffer from the mandatory noise reduction of the K-1 II but referred to stacking of noisy images. Whereas a stacking of K-1 RAW files should yield great detail, a stacking of K-1 II images (taken with an ISO setting >=640) should be less detailed as the stacking has to work with images that have already been tampered with and lost some detail.

However, again, while the above is a valid concern, you have not demonstrated any of that. Your blur could come from many sources and your comparison to another camera is not valid unless you can confirm that exactly the same settings and a very similar lens were used on the same day, showing the same part of the sky. EDIT: Just noticed that the comparison is not valid. BTW, at the specified ISO 400 setting for the other camera, the K-1 II should yield the same or better results as the "accelerator" won't have kicked in yet.

Last edited by Class A; 09-17-2018 at 07:39 PM.
09-18-2018, 12:21 PM   #555
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
Glad I didn't upgrade I guess)
That is not the usual view; apparently they are getting more upgrade requests than they expected.
K-1 II upgrade program extended in Canada due to unexpectedly high demand - PentaxForums.com
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