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05-06-2018, 06:15 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Did you have them at a similar angle of view? Did both images take in the same scene edge to edge? If one was wider or narrower the metering could be with different unless you use spot metering since the matrix style pattern metering can vary based on scene composition. (also I edited my post adding a number 5 btw).

---------- Post added 05-06-18 at 09:13 AM ----------



I missed that. Sorry.
Exactly the same frame, at the same time (few seconds difference from each other), same light, same ISO...

05-06-2018, 06:16 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
Well, it's not me who makes that statement, but many webs which I read along the years.
Anyone can write anything on the Internet.
Get a good book explaining the basics instead. No offense, but you're drawing a lot of incorrect conclusions.

What the K-1 tells you is that the scene it was taking a picture of is dimmer than the Nikon's.
05-06-2018, 06:19 AM - 1 Like   #18
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Post the shots with full exif when you can.
05-06-2018, 06:21 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Post the shots with full exif when you can.
I will tonight, once I get home (I'm out).

05-06-2018, 06:33 AM   #20
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Landscape on a K-1 should be shot at ƒ8-ƒ16. Use AV mode, set your ƒ-stop, let the camera do the shutter speed. Use a tripod if you have a long exposure and the shutter speed is slower than 1/6s.

An MF lens with hyperlocal settings is nice for getting everything in focus. If not find something a third of the way into the frame and focus on that.

Last edited by normhead; 05-06-2018 at 07:24 AM.
05-06-2018, 06:37 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
Why the hell (both cameras set to ISO-100 and focus to infinite) my APS-C Nikon yesterday shot a landscape at f/5.6 and 1/160, while my FF K1 did at f/3.5 and 1/20? (Regardless a FF sensor does have an inherent less DOF than an APS-C sensor, I'm talking about "f vs speed" equivalence).
FF does not change DOF. It is a fallacy spread by many, and accidentally misunderstood (yet still spread as truth) by even more.
If you were expecting the same image comprised of your f-stop, your aperture and the distance to subject (the three items that affect DOF), then you will get the same DOF.
FF will give you a greater field of view at the same focal length, but unless you change your parameters (such as moving closer to create a similar looking field of view as APSC), the DOF is not going to change.

If you're using the same lens in the same lighting conditions, I would not expect that a great of a difference between cameras.
05-06-2018, 07:05 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
Exactly the same frame, at the same time (few seconds difference from each other), same light, same ISO...
Since one is 28mm on apsc and the other is 28mm on full frame the second shot should take in a wider perspective. This could be related to how the two metering programs saw the scene.
05-06-2018, 07:15 AM   #23
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Also one thing us that even if Nikon says it is ISO 100, it could really be 160 or even closer to 200. That has been confirmed many times that compact cameras ISO can be something else than it says at display..

FF metering, it could be that it is gathering its metering from wider area, so it might appear to be darker. You should really master metering too. At this point actual pictures would be good. To point out how they did came out. If Nikon shot is accurate, then Pentax shot should be quite a bit over exposed.

05-06-2018, 07:27 AM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
FF will give you a greater field of view at the same focal length, but unless you change your parameters (such as moving closer to create a similar looking field of view as APSC), the DOF is not going to change.
Dude, we've been thought this. No one cares if the DOF is the same if it's a different picture, and if you change the field of view it's a different picture.

You have to use a shorter lens on APS_c to get the same field of view and the shorter lens will give you more DOF.

Get with the program.

It is simply astounding that there are still folks around who don't understand this after all we've been through. Same picture, same FoV, more DoF on APS-c. Dig it.

Same lens, same distance etc. same DoF, but different picture.
APS-c and FF picture (move back or change lenses, APS-c equals more DoF either way.
This ancient slight of hand, comparing the DoF on different images is getting really, really old. Anyone, absolutely anyone with expereince shooting different formats understands this.

"Hey to get the same FoV on my APS_c from the same spot on APS_c and FF, I have to change lenses."
It's not rocket science. ( But it is optical science.)

Last edited by normhead; 05-06-2018 at 07:34 AM.
05-06-2018, 07:28 AM   #25
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Nikon metering system do weird things because:
1 - being linked to AF, changing the focus point involves changes in the metering.
2 - Matrix metering makes a comparison between your framing and some preset scenes, thus the metering guesses by itself what is the best metering for your scene (trying to guessing your thoughts and intentions inside your brain)
3 - It does the above automatically in a point and shot camera.
05-06-2018, 07:30 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Since one is 28mm on apsc and the other is 28mm on full frame the second shot should take in a wider perspective. This could be related to how the two metering programs saw the scene.
No, the lens on the Nikon is 28mm equivalent in 35mm format. And the Zeiss on the Pentax is 28mm (of course in 35mm format).
05-06-2018, 07:31 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
No, the lens on the Nikon is 28mm equivalent in 35mm format. And the Zeiss on the Pentax is 28mm (of course in 35mm format).
Oh lol. Like the GR. I forgot. So 18mm roughly right?

---------- Post added 05-06-18 at 10:32 AM ----------

I need to wake up today!
05-06-2018, 07:35 AM   #28
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Hyperfocal focusing does not really work with 28/2 Distagon. Why? Its focusing field is almost spherical instead of flat plane. Use liveview to get it sharp where you want it sharp. Only at f/8 it gets somewhat flat.
05-06-2018, 07:36 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Dude, we've been thought this. No one cares if the DOF is the same if it's a different picture, and if you change the field of view it's a different picture.

You have to use a shorter lens on APS_c to get the same field of view and the shorter lens will give you more DOF.

Get with the program.

It is simply astounding that there are still folks around who don't understand this after all we've been through. Same picture, same FoV, more DoF on APS-c. Dig it.

Same lens, same distance etc. same DoF, but different picture.
APS-c and FF picture (move back or change lenses, APS-c equals more DoF either way.
This ancient slight of hand, comparing the DoF on different images is getting really, really old. Anyone, absolutely anyone with expereince shooting different formats understand this.
Exactly. But my concern is not the difference on DOF between both cameras (APS-C vs FF), but the metering which gives f5.6 & 1/160 on the Nikon and f3.5 & 1/20 on the Pentax with the same FOV (frame), ISO and light for both and even faster lens on the K1.

However, I'm going to double check once at home and will give you details tonight.

Last edited by alvaro_garcia; 05-06-2018 at 07:44 AM.
05-06-2018, 07:45 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
Exactly. But my concern is not the difference on DOF between both cameras (APS-C vs FF), but the metering which gives f5.6 & 1/160 on the Nikon and f3.5 & 1/20 on the Pentax with the same FOV (frame) and light for both.
The key thing here is 3.5 on the Pentax. Setting the camera to 8 and AV will solve that.

I'm not so concerned with the Nikon which to me is irrelevant. If you didn't have it in the mix what would be your advice for increasing DoF?

Personally, I'm not going to use any mode that tells me to use 3.5 for landscape, that's a pretty serious error just in itself.
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