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05-06-2018, 08:21 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The key thing here is 3.5 on the Pentax. Setting the camera to 8 and AV will solve that.

I'm not so concerned with the Nikon which to me is irrelevant. If you didn't have it in the mix what would be your advice for increasing DoF?

Personally, I'm not going to use any mode that tells me to use 3.5 for landscape, that's a pretty serious error just in itself.
I think the title is misleading. The main problem seems to be a 5 stop difference at the same iso. Seems really off. I'd guess something is set different.

05-06-2018, 08:24 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
Well, it's not me who makes that statement, but many webs which I read along the years. But thanks for your contribution.

---------- Post added 05-06-18 at 05:35 AM ----------



Yes, I know it's needed stopping down a higher f/ with the Pentax to get the same DOF than the Nikon.

Besides, both photos look with similar lighting, but the one from the Pentax look with much less DOF than the one from the Nikon.

I will post both once at home and will give you the exposure details.

Besides, the shooting mode was "Auto", but when setting it to "Landscape", the f/ stopped down to 11.

So weird that huge difference...
You need to include iso in the equation.

Also, in body stabilization should compensate and make 1/20 easy compared to nikon that would require a tripod, giving you a cleaner image (ff iso 100 is cleaner than iso 100 on apsc), with more dynamic range.
05-06-2018, 08:32 AM   #33
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I took my camera with me and realized that I didn't delete those photos.

Ok, I commited a mistake. While the Nikon shot at f5.6 & 1/160, the Pentax in "Auto" mode shot at f3.5 to f4 & 1/125 to 1/160, and in "Landscape" mode shot at f11 & 1/15 to 1/20.

I apologize. However, there's still a difference between both cameras. I'm using a Zeiss circular polarizer on the Pentax too.
05-06-2018, 08:43 AM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
I took my camera with me and realized that I didn't delete those photos.

Ok, I commited a mistake. While the Nikon shot at f5.6 & 1/160, the Pentax in "Auto" mode shot at f3.5 to f4 & 1/125 to 1/160, and in "Landscape" mode shot at f11 & 1/15 to 1/20.

I apologize. However, there's still a difference between both cameras. I'm using a Zeiss circular polarizer on the Pentax too.
As I said, forget what the Nikon is doing, just learn to get the image you want with your K-1. Auto mode is not your friend. and while ƒ11 is a nice safe landscape aperture, so are ƒ8 and ƒ16, depending on the scene being captured. Take control of that stuff. AV mode all the way.

Start with the aperture you want, turn on the histogram, use the EV adjustment to centre your histogram. Chimp your images to make adjustments. What your Nikon is doing is irrelevant. It won't help you get better images on your K-1. The K-1 has everything you need. You're complicating the issue.

05-06-2018, 08:57 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
As I said, forget what the Nikon is doing, just learn to get the image you want with your K-1. Auto mode is not your friend. and while 11 is a nice safe landscape aperture, so are 8 and 16, depending on the scene being captured. Take control of that stuff. AV mode all the way.

Start with the aperture you want, turn on the histogram, use the EV adjustment to centre your histogram. Chimp your images to make adjustments. What your Nikon is doing is irrelevant. It won't help you get better images on your K-1. The K-1 has everything you need. You're complicating the issue.
Yes, I agree. I should start taking more control with AV mode and let the camera choosing the speed.
05-06-2018, 09:06 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
Yes, I agree. I should start taking more control with AV mode and let the camera choosing the speed.
And don't forget to learn to use the histogram. The camera can choose the speed it thinks is best, you still need to set it to the speed you think is best for maximum results. The EV adjustment is your friend. My range of EV settings ranges from -3 to +2 EV, depending on what I'm shooting.

The camera doesn't know if you want to keep all the highlights and clip the shadows ore exposes for maximum shadow detail. The cameras light meter gives what it guesses you might want to shoot. Most of the time what want to shoot is different, tot he pint where many of my cameras are set to -0.7 EV by default. I just find if i start from 0EV and am paying attention, that's where I end up, and that's ben true for every Pentax camera I've owned be it my XG-1, my Optio 90 or my Nikon 120 AW. - 0.7 EV seems to be my style, You should be figuring out what yours is.

When I live the house, my camera is set to -0.7 EV, I'll change it if it seems necessary.

Last edited by normhead; 05-06-2018 at 09:19 AM.
05-06-2018, 10:06 AM   #37
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Good to see a potentially contentious thread come to an amiable conclusion. Keeping the details straight always helps, especially comparing across brands.

And the famous "Pentax exposes (a full stop-A half stop-way too much) under what i get on my (any other camera)" is only amenable to experience with Pentax.
05-06-2018, 10:56 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
Considering that an f/2.8 lens on an APS-C sensor (like on my Nikon Coolpix A, 28mm equiv.) is roughly equivalent to an f/4 lens on a FF sensor (but the one I have on my K1 is a 28mm Zeiss Distagon f/2) and hence my K1 should be able to shoot for instance sunsets hand held while my Nikon should need a tripod:

Why the hell (both cameras set to ISO-100 and focus to infinite) my APS-C Nikon yesterday shot a landscape at f/5.6 and 1/160, while my FF K1 did at f/3.5 and 1/20? (Regardless a FF sensor does have an inherent less DOF than an APS-C sensor, I'm talking about "f vs speed" equivalence).

I assumed that the K1 should improve both parameters or at least one over the other (especially considering the bigger sensor and the much faster lens), but not getting worse both of them!

I could understand that if the Nikon shots at f/5.6 and 1/160, the Pentax would do it at f/6.3 and 1/125 or at f/4 and 1/250, but not at f/3.5 and 1/20 which needs a tripod!

I'm lost.
There's a menu setting for program line. Set it to "depth" if you want the camera to prefer narrower apertures.

Apart from that it sounds like there's also a difference in metering/exposure in this particular case.


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05-06-2018, 11:05 AM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote

I apologize. However, there's still a difference between both cameras. I'm using a Zeiss circular polarizer on the Pentax too.
This gets worse!

A CPL will rob you of a couple of stops. I pack one as a kind of ad hoc ND filter.

I don't think you're making stunning discoveries overturning science, AG, I really think you're not controlling variables here.

Next time, about the best thing you can do is put up your two best photos that demonstrate what you're not sure about.
05-06-2018, 11:10 AM   #40
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Yes that CP will account for the extra couple stops you were missing.
05-06-2018, 11:21 AM   #41
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As for the Equivalence stuff you read on the web, check a recent misunderstanding from a fellow forum member here, AG:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epentaxforums%2Ecom%...6&share_type=t

05-06-2018, 02:02 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
... bollocks ...
He has a misunderstanding of equivalence but that can be corrected..

---------- Post added 05-06-18 at 03:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
FF does not change DOF. It is a fallacy spread by many, and accidentally misunderstood (yet still spread as truth) by even more.
If you were expecting the same image comprised of your f-stop, your aperture and the distance to subject (the three items that affect DOF), then you will get the same DOF. ...
Okay. There are some other elements that affect perceived depth of field when the image is viewed.

QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
... unless you change your parameters (such as moving closer to create a similar looking field of view as APSC), the DOF is not going to change. ...
Yes the same focal length on FF will give you a wider field of view, but ..you hit on something here. For me, it is really about the picture I want to take and that includes framing.

You comments about greater depth of field with FF are specious because of course I (as well as many other people) will either adjust my position or change lens focal length to get the framing I want. Why would I accept any different subject composition just because I swapped sensor format? Else, to get the framing I want, I would have a lot to crop from that FF image and I would be back to APS-C :^)
05-06-2018, 02:35 PM   #43
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Nikon Coolpix A (APS-C) samples:

Photo 01 = f5.6 1/320
Photo 02 = f5.6 1/640 (Switched on "Active D-Lighting" Dynamic Range boost to its maximum value "H+")

(Each photo is named with its data)
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
COOLPIX A  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
COOLPIX A  Photo 

Last edited by alvaro_garcia; 05-06-2018 at 02:45 PM.
05-06-2018, 02:40 PM   #44
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Pentax K1 (FF) samples:

Photo 01 = f3.5 1/160 ("Program Line" on "Auto")
Photo 02 = f4.0 1/160 ("Program Line" on "Auto")
Photo 03 = f11.0 1/15 ("Program Line" on "Deep [Landscape]")
Photo 04 = f11.0 1/20 ("Program Line" on "Deep [Landscape]")

(Each photo is named with its data)
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-1  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-1  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-1  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-1  Photo 

Last edited by alvaro_garcia; 05-06-2018 at 02:49 PM.
05-06-2018, 02:58 PM - 1 Like   #45
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