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05-07-2018, 09:49 AM - 2 Likes   #16
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That Review is not as false as you think.

Since this Forum has a family-appropriate-language rule I canít say what I want to. One would think a guy who brags about his Ph.D. would know how to set up a controlled Compare & Contrast evaluation. Not one setting, test parameter or lens is consistent between the two reviews.

OTOH, none of the bullet points in the Conclusion CONS column is untrue. They just donít matter to me.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-07-2018 at 10:25 AM.
05-07-2018, 09:55 AM   #17

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K1 ii should offer improved AF, lower noise and handheld pixel shift mode. Question is, is the upgrade worth the money.
DPR tells us that AF has improved.
Noise reduction in standard ISO range between 1600-6400 ISO did not improve - same for all other reviews I have seen before.
Handheld pixel shift stil sounds interesting, but long processing times make this is nice to have feature.

I will read more carefully all the details, but I think DPR saved me 500€ - money I cannot spend on lenses as Pentax has not presented much recently.
05-07-2018, 09:56 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
I have a K-1ii and I agree with much of the review. Sorry.

Users here have found the same issues with NR on higher ISO images. And the handheld PS isn't that big a deal. And the video is crap (although I suspect no one who buys the camera cares).

EDIT: oops. I didn't realize they used different lenses. The center has different results than the edges re the less sharp ii vs i. If you go to the dynamic range part of the review and compare the test shot vs K-1 the results differ widely depending on where on the image you look; lower right is much better on K-1 but other parts are the same or even favor the K-1ii. Lower left is quite different than upper right, eg.
Yep, we don't discover now the pro and cons of the "accelerator" unit but this review is real garbage. Settings, softwares, lenses... all is different between new and old k-1 and also between some scenes of the new one.
I downloaded the 12800 DNG shots (sadly no PEF from DPR), opened in DCU 5.8.1, removed all camera processing settings (D-Range, lens correction, NR, sharpening, etc.), set the same picture style (Bright) , aligned the exposure, saved in TIFF sRGB.
You can download from here:
K-1 Mk I with FA77 - ISO 12800
K-1 Mk II with DFA50 MACRO - ISO 12800

Same with the only 100 ISO DNG shot... here there also another difference, MkII has a DNG, MKI has a PEF. Here the TIFF:
K-1 Mk I Pixel Shift with FA77 - ISO 100
K-1 Mk II Pixel Shift with DFA50 MACRO - ISO 100

Added TIFFs from ISO 800 DNG, that is the first ISO value after RAW-NR enable:
K-1 Mk I with FA77 - ISO 800
K-1 Mk II with DFA50 MACRO - ISO 800

Result is less noise and little less details, and we do not know if this is due to DPR's method, but we are very very far from DPR comparison tool and evaluations (above all about colors).

In my opinion RICOH has reduced the wrong noise, the one that gives a sense of resolution, they should have reduced the chroma noise instead.

Last edited by Andrea K; 05-11-2018 at 01:14 AM.
05-07-2018, 09:58 AM - 1 Like   #19

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I think there's a focus/alignment issue with the K-1 II's samples. The cards are slightly out of focus...

05-07-2018, 10:35 AM - 2 Likes   #20
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It's good to actually download a couple of the charts to see what's up on your own computer. I downloaded a 12,800 sample from the K1 and K1 ll, since that seemed to be where some of the real softening kicked in. When I look at the files side by side, I just don't see a whole lot of difference. There's a slight color difference, but that could easily be from the different profiles. The K1 ll still does not have official profiles in Lightroom.

It's also clear the lenses are different. The 77 has its faults, but it is a high contrast lens, and I think you see that in the shots of the K1. Weird they switched to the D-FA for this comparison.

My take-away is to wait and see after profiles are developed and PEF's are officially supported, and don't expect any big image quality difference one way or another once you apply noise reduction and sharpening to taste.
05-07-2018, 10:57 AM - 3 Likes   #21
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I'm hitting a point where I think one particular review will really give many honest answers and give us some real comparisons to evaluate and be trust worthy. It's a review I know I can trust from the history of other reviews. It's the review that will be done here by Pentax Forums and Adam.
05-07-2018, 12:02 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
I have a K-1ii and I agree with much of the review.
I didn't realize they used different lenses.
Did you look at the end and the "Compare mode" against the K-1? K-1 II got less points in almost every category! That's insane and can only be a subjective opinion, bot no standardized test result.
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05-07-2018, 12:17 PM - 2 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by angerdan Quote
Did you look at the end and the "Compare mode" against the K-1? K-1 II got less points in almost every category! That's insane and can only be a subjective opinion, bot no standardized test result.
But the score is at a point in time, relative to the competitive landscape. Things move on, there are 2 years between the reviews.

Not necessarily defending DPR by the way. I don't spend much if any time over there.

05-07-2018, 12:26 PM - 2 Likes   #24
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Setting aside the lack of consistency in the testing what is funny to me is when you go to the Image Quality part of the review the section of the Studio scene comparison highlighted the K-1MKII is the most pleasing. It looks more like a printed card and not trying to make it look like a face. Checking a few areas the K-1MKII was consistently better and across ISO levels. Much better than the K-1.

I am also not seeing any uncontrollable noise reduction that is killing fine detail. What I am seeing that can only be attributed to the Accelerator Unit is better over all color fidelity which creates better tonal value changes that have an effect on the 3D quality of the image as a whole.
05-07-2018, 12:46 PM - 1 Like   #25
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The odd thing to me is that I too, find the "artifacts" they mention not to be significant and the lettering to be more readable with the K-1 II.
05-07-2018, 12:46 PM - 1 Like   #26
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Another indication of the review's stellar attention to detail:
The image stabilization seemed to work fairly well when panning but definitely suffered when walking along with the camera in hand (this is to be expected to some degree, as this is definitely a stress test for the IBIS system).
Note that this comes from the page of the review concerning _video_ performance. Unless I'm very much mistaken the IBIS system on recent Pentax DSLRs doesn't function during video recording. In that mode the shake reduction is electronic only. How could the reviewers not know that?
05-07-2018, 01:15 PM   #27
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After reading DP's friendly comments, it is spontaneous to wonder, would you work for this organization?

I think yes, DPreview is looking for a.....SSSDE
05-07-2018, 01:22 PM - 5 Likes   #28
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I've long been skeptical of the belief that DPR is for some reason biased against Pentax. The newDPR review of the K-1 M2 has convinced me I was wrong.

Methodological problems aside (what, shoot a side-by-side image quality test using the same lens?), I was amazed at the steady drumbeat throughout the review of calling the K-1 M2 too big and heavy: The criticisms "Camera is on the heavy side..", "Camera is large and intimidating...", "quite heavy...", "Large and obtrusive..." all appear on a single page ("What It's Like to Use"). The conclusion page repeats "Camera is quite heavy and bulky."

By contrast, the DPR review last fall of the Nikon D850, a more-expensive camera aimed at much the same market, doesn't mention its weight ó which is exactly 5 grams less than the K-1 M2 ó at all in its conclusions. While the D850 review does allow that the camera is "a bit heavy," the review never seems to find the D850 at all "intimidating" or "obtrusive," despite its larger physical bulk.

I'd say the jury is still out on how much the new K-1 cooks high-ISO RAW files. Yes, it might be better if the user had the opportunity to turn the accelerator off. But this review doesn't strike me as especially convincing in any regard.
05-07-2018, 02:02 PM - 1 Like   #29
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[quote=awscreo;4274326]I don't think we could've expected much higher rating for such a minor upgrade. I bet the true successor for K-1 would be much higher rated, I think a lot of review websites value tech and hardware upgrades highly (hence creaming over Sony's in general)[/quote

And I would think the new release wouldn't be rated lower than the previous model. Just because you own a website doesn't make you an expert on anything.

Simple fact, if building up Nikon, Canon and Sony makes DPR more income than building up Pentax they will do that. facts be damned.

They are basically corporate ho's selling exchanging credibility for a few bucks.

That being said, nobody seems to be able to support Pentax with their low market share, except for Imaging Resources. They seem to be able to do "just the facts ma'am" with impunity and are probably the only website other than this one worth supporting. I learn more from one image comparison on Imaging Resources than I have ever learned in all the nonsense posted on DPR.

DPR are neither credible, nor do they posses the integrity of a used ar salesman. As pointed out many times, they are so biased they can't even correctly interpret the meaning of their own sample photos.

Last edited by normhead; 05-07-2018 at 02:11 PM.
05-07-2018, 03:20 PM   #30

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@normhead Well, we're voting with our wallets here. They can do whatever they want on their website, but it's up to us whether we're clicking on their articles or not. I didn't even know they were reviewing the K-1 II before I saw this thread, and honestly that's the way I like it. I have plenty of other sources for information that I trust more out there.
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