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05-08-2018, 07:23 PM   #91
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05-08-2018, 07:52 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElrondElensar Quote
I don't own a K1/K1II but ... what exactly is this "star eater" thing now with the K-1II ?
Interesting thread though.
05-08-2018, 08:05 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
DennisP have you done any B&W conversions in ACR. This is were I see the Accelerator Unit paying dividends also.
No, I did not. But I did notice that fine details in the B&W areas of the test image were noticeably better on the K-1 Mk2.
05-08-2018, 08:27 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
This test chart comparison is a good example showing the better color coming from the K-1KMII. I am assuming the K-1KMII is the one in the middle. The magnification is a little different in each image but you can clearly see the frosted color filter effect the K-1 has against the K-1KMII.
The one from the middle is the K1 jpg the bottom is the k1mk2 jpg and the top is synthetically derived from the known values of the color check Prophoto RGB so it represents as true a color value for that checker in a digital file.

05-08-2018, 08:48 PM - 1 Like   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
I don't own a K1/K1II but ... what exactly is this "star eater" thing now with the K-1II ?
Interesting thread though.
Fur of dead animals looks dead is not quite a "star eater" phenomenon; in fact, in the one case I know of photographing the heavens, all stars were present and accounted for - people are driving this completely beyond reasonable.
05-08-2018, 09:19 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
The one from the middle is the K1 jpg the bottom is the k1mk2 jpg and the top is synthetically derived from the known values of the color check Prophoto RGB so it represents as true a color value for that checker in a digital file.
Ian the images are all sized differently which makes a difference in how they appear which makes it difficult to ascertain clearly one from the other.
05-08-2018, 09:33 PM   #97
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Rishi is very low on people skills... and rather high on arrogance. Interesting combination. But when you see that you can counter for it.. or at least ignore it knowing it is what it is.

But the review on the whole seemed fairly accurate to me... albeit I think they reached far for some of the 'what we dont like' in certain sections.

For instance, they don't like that there aren't more modern lenses for it... yet then complain there aren't enough compact lenses for it. Uhmmm... most modern FF lenses are not exactly what I'd consider compact. So I'm not sure DPRs angle there.

But that is not really a major situation.. most of the 'what we dont like' I didn't like either.

I think the issue is, a review site took the current flagship K mount body and put it through the ringer.. and there are a lot of emotions triggered here about that. When you have a relationship with a brand, it becomes a troublesome situation when that relationship is reviewed actively and potentially negatively.

DPR also seems to review with their baseline expectations to be a more all-purpose type camera. They are entirely judging on not the design and function of the camera as the manufacturer envisioned it, but on some all-purpose multi-functional view of what they expect in 2018 (time of this review) for a camera in that price range. So I can understand why they'd be disappointed..
05-08-2018, 10:01 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Rishi is very low on people skills... and rather high on arrogance. Interesting combination. But when you see that you can counter for it.. or at least ignore it knowing it is what it is.

But the review on the whole seemed fairly accurate to me... albeit I think they reached far for some of the 'what we dont like' in certain sections.

For instance, they don't like that there aren't more modern lenses for it... yet then complain there aren't enough compact lenses for it. Uhmmm... most modern FF lenses are not exactly what I'd consider compact. So I'm not sure DPRs angle there.

But that is not really a major situation.. most of the 'what we dont like' I didn't like either.

I think the issue is, a review site took the current flagship K mount body and put it through the ringer.. and there are a lot of emotions triggered here about that. When you have a relationship with a brand, it becomes a troublesome situation when that relationship is reviewed actively and potentially negatively.

DPR also seems to review with their baseline expectations to be a more all-purpose type camera. They are entirely judging on not the design and function of the camera as the manufacturer envisioned it, but on some all-purpose multi-functional view of what they expect in 2018 (time of this review) for a camera in that price range. So I can understand why they'd be disappointed..
I wouldn't say "all purpose" but whatever they feel that a camera should be is built entirely around what CaNikon cameras do well - video, super fast AF, gimmicks for noobs etc. Pentax feels that a camera should be something else - solid build quality, well thought-out controls, designed for photographers who know how to use a camera, not ripping them off - and so they get poorer reviews. I happen to agree with Pentax's "how to build a camera" philosophy. You would think that with the number of staff they have on DPR they would have someone with a more Pentaxian view of what a camera should be, or maybe they do but that gets hidden for fear of being fired for not getting with the CaNikoSony love vibe over there.

05-08-2018, 11:13 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElrondElensar Quote
KII start eater on "steroid"
I believe they never tested the K-1 II at astrophoto... which would mean Rishi made that up.
He's doing precisely the thing he complained of being accused of. Nice job, Rishi!
05-08-2018, 11:57 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I believe they never tested the K-1 II at astrophoto... which would mean Rishi made that up.
He's doing precisely the thing he complained of being accused of. Nice job, Rishi!
Why don't you say that on DPR? - Oh, no! - you can't!
05-09-2018, 02:03 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I think the issue is, a review site took the current flagship K mount body and put it through the ringer.. and there are a lot of emotions triggered here about that. When you have a relationship with a brand, it becomes a troublesome situation when that relationship is reviewed actively and potentially negatively.
I do not understand why someone should have a relationship with a brand producing cold lifeless electric gadgets. After all those are not considered human beings, yet...
05-09-2018, 02:07 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
Why don't you say that on DPR? - Oh, no! - you can't!
Don't worry, that's just a temporary (7 days) setback.

---------- Post added 09-05-18 at 12:12 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Rishi is very low on people skills... and rather high on arrogance. Interesting combination. But when you see that you can counter for it.. or at least ignore it knowing it is what it is.

But the review on the whole seemed fairly accurate to me... albeit I think they reached far for some of the 'what we dont like' in certain sections.

For instance, they don't like that there aren't more modern lenses for it... yet then complain there aren't enough compact lenses for it. Uhmmm... most modern FF lenses are not exactly what I'd consider compact. So I'm not sure DPRs angle there.

But that is not really a major situation.. most of the 'what we dont like' I didn't like either.

I think the issue is, a review site took the current flagship K mount body and put it through the ringer.. and there are a lot of emotions triggered here about that. When you have a relationship with a brand, it becomes a troublesome situation when that relationship is reviewed actively and potentially negatively.

DPR also seems to review with their baseline expectations to be a more all-purpose type camera. They are entirely judging on not the design and function of the camera as the manufacturer envisioned it, but on some all-purpose multi-functional view of what they expect in 2018 (time of this review) for a camera in that price range. So I can understand why they'd be disappointed..
Well, he finally started discussing the issues raised, instead of rejecting them altogether. His point about the lens being at fault - and not the chart alignment - is sound.

What annoys me the most is that, due to the tests' faults, I cannot use the review for the one and only reason it would be useful to me: to decide if to upgrade or not. I have doubts even about the areas where Rishi claims there's no issue.
DPR's recent efforts of "proving" that Pentax is no good are secondary to that.
05-09-2018, 02:29 AM - 2 Likes   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
I do not understand why someone should have a relationship with a brand producing cold lifeless electric gadgets. After all those are not considered human beings, yet...
And yet you regularly complain that your Pentax isn't doing what you want it to when using it in conditions way out of specification - is your relationship with the brand understandable?
05-09-2018, 02:41 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Rishi is very low on people skills... and rather high on arrogance. Interesting combination. But when you see that you can counter for it.. or at least ignore it knowing it is what it is.

But the review on the whole seemed fairly accurate to me... albeit I think they reached far for some of the 'what we dont like' in certain sections.

For instance, they don't like that there aren't more modern lenses for it... yet then complain there aren't enough compact lenses for it. Uhmmm... most modern FF lenses are not exactly what I'd consider compact. So I'm not sure DPRs angle there.

But that is not really a major situation.. most of the 'what we dont like' I didn't like either.

I think the issue is, a review site took the current flagship K mount body and put it through the ringer.. and there are a lot of emotions triggered here about that. When you have a relationship with a brand, it becomes a troublesome situation when that relationship is reviewed actively and potentially negatively.

DPR also seems to review with their baseline expectations to be a more all-purpose type camera. They are entirely judging on not the design and function of the camera as the manufacturer envisioned it, but on some all-purpose multi-functional view of what they expect in 2018 (time of this review) for a camera in that price range. So I can understand why they'd be disappointed..
Good points. Photography is an experience. Handling a camera, travelling with a camera, taking an image, perhaps participating in the image, developing it, viewing it. All experiences.

Many modern reviews pay little attention to this perhaps because reviewers who can do a good job of evaluating and expressing something so subtle are very rare. Statistical tests and grandly titled Lab Reports are the easy part, in fact. They are relied on far too much, imo. And many modern reviews are under the usual pressures of time and money from commercial sites for which any review is just editorial content to pull in the eyeballs and the click-throughs. This probably applies in spades to the Amazon empire.

That said, DPR’s actual findings are broadly in line with those from others, so far as I can tell. But the tone isn’t, of course. I usually find field reviews from actual users to be most helpful. So best to wait a few months after first release. The general performance of a camera can be guesstimated from the specs and maker’s history anyway. That’s usually not much in doubt, bar nuances.
05-09-2018, 02:55 AM - 1 Like   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
I do not understand why someone should have a relationship with a brand producing cold lifeless electric gadgets. After all those are not considered human beings, yet...
Folks here have a "relationship" with the k mount. I, personally, have spent several thousand dollars on k mount lenses. That is a lot of money for a hobby photographer with four kids. If Pentax went away tomorrow or just stopped investing R and D money in new K mount cameras, I would have to spend quite a bit of money to switch brands.

As to the whole DP Review review, I think the big thing is that it would be nice if there was consistency in the reviewing process. Cameras like the D850 should be slammed for being big if that's a problem. There needs to be a deep level search for cooking of raws and demote all cameras for those sorts of things -- including Sony's lens adjustments, if they can't be turned off. Overall there needs to be a greater emphasis on real world shooting and printing. MJKoski, you have specific needs for a camera and it seems as though the K-1 II isn't the right one for you. As I recall, the original K-1 (without accelerator chip) wasn't right either. But few of us are shooting the same sorts of things or printing at the size you are and few cameras are up to that challenge. That doesn't mean that all of those cameras that won't hold up to a ten minute exposure or printing to two meters on a side are terrible cameras, but they certainly are the right camera for you.
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