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05-15-2018, 03:50 PM - 3 Likes   #346
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These are a couple of shots I took on an overcast day of some college women's softball. The first is the original, the second is a crop of that original. Of course when they are uploaded to the site they are reduced in size, but I thought I would post them anyway. I am not trying to prove any big point, but as I say I am enjoying my Pentax K-1 II. The lens used was the Pentax 70-200.


Last edited by C_Jones; 05-15-2018 at 04:13 PM.
05-15-2018, 05:20 PM   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by caliscouser Quote
... Not sure what the heck is going on because I'm very happy with the KP and coprocessor. ...
There is available no KP versus KP II comparison
05-15-2018, 05:34 PM   #348
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tan68 Quote
There is available no KP versus KP II comparison
This should not be an issue of comparison to a 'like' camera. The question should be "If you saw this image all by itself, would you find it to be acceptable?" .... "Is this image a 'keeper'?"
05-15-2018, 05:42 PM   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
This should not be an issue of comparison to a 'like' camera. The question should be "If you saw this image all by itself, would you find it to be acceptable?" .... "Is this image a 'keeper'?"
That is my point

05-15-2018, 07:38 PM   #350
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tan68 Quote
There is available no KP versus KP II comparison
There is a KP II ?
05-15-2018, 07:58 PM - 1 Like   #351
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
There is a KP II ?
No, someone is just trying to make a statement about a KP (since it has the accelerator chip,) into a false equivalence about a previous post. That post just stated that the accelerator equipped KP put out amazing images, which it does.
05-16-2018, 02:53 AM   #352
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QuoteOriginally posted by SSGGeezer Quote
No, someone is just trying to make a statement about a KP (since it has the accelerator chip,) into a false equivalence about a previous post. That post just stated that the accelerator equipped KP put out amazing images, which it does.
No, the previous post did not just state that the KP puts out amazing images.

In that post caliscouser is not sure what the heck is going on [with the K-1] and wonders if the K-1 sensor is not amenable to the co-processor...

In response, I suggest people are perfectly happy with the KP output because there is nothing to directly compare with the KP. Without doubt, this is possible :^)

People are comparing minutiae and finding some aspects of K-1 better and some aspects of K-1 II better.. it is possible these people teetering between K-1 better or K-1 II better would have been, without reservation, happy with accelerator had it been included with the K-1 and had there then been no opportunity to compare so exhaustively to a previous model... just as with the KP

Hope this clears up any confusion !

But, could you help me with a comment I find confusing?
What does this mean : "...into a false equivalence about a previous post."

05-16-2018, 04:25 AM   #353
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four times 24mp aps-c two with and two without nr chip:
Image comparison: Digital Photography Review
05-16-2018, 09:39 AM   #354
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
With all due respect, I think your idea of signal vs noise seems to be based on the notion of a "strong signal" with identifiable features against a "weak noise" floor and in my estimation such a perspective is too naive for high-ISO (read "low light") scenarios.

......

I believe this is an example of where your view on signal and noise may be too simplistic.

Have a look at this visual demonstration of signal surviving noise levels that exceeds signal noise. Interestingly, the blog entry makes reference to our friends at DPReview who apparently espoused the untenable notion of signal only being meaningful as long as SNR >= 1.

Note that the "signal" in the examples chosen is pretty regular and thus nurture your hopes of extracting it by looking at pixel correlation, but in general the signal could be more random and I dispute the notion that any signal that looks like noise is noise.
Perhaps I did not explain what I meant very well because what I meant does cover the low-SNR condition and certainly covers those interesting low-SNR images that you posted. Any analysis of pixel-to-pixel differences automatically handles low-SNR features such as those speckled radial triangles. That's what I meant about "structure."

Perhaps the strongest proof of the power of the accelerator chip is to look at a very low-SNR image taken with cameras without the accelerator (K-3 & K-3ii) versus with the accelerator (K-70 & KP).

Image comparison: Digital Photography Review

In the case of K-3 & K-3ii, most of the detail is lost in the noise and it's hard to make out the overall shapes of the grey logo on light-grey background. With the accelerator, the image has much better edge detail, much better shape preservation, and much lower noise.

P.S. It's also worth noting that the visibility of those low-SNR triangles says more about the human brain's ability to extrapolate expected detail than it does about images themselves. A low-SNR image that does not have a simple shape (e.g., that DPR logo) is much less easily recognized.
05-16-2018, 01:02 PM   #355
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DPReview now admits they will reshot K-1 & K-1 II with the FA 77mm 1.8 Limited lens:
Pentax K-1 II Review: A worthy upgrade?: Digital Photography Review



Last edited by angerdan; 05-17-2018 at 03:21 PM.
05-16-2018, 01:21 PM - 1 Like   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oakland Rob Quote
I have a K-1ii and I agree with much of the review. Sorry.

Users here have found the same issues with NR on higher ISO images. And the handheld PS isn't that big a deal. And the video is crap (although I suspect no one who buys the camera cares).

EDIT: oops. I didn't realize they used different lenses. The center has different results than the edges re the less sharp ii vs i. If you go to the dynamic range part of the review and compare the test shot vs K-1 the results differ widely depending on where on the image you look; lower right is much better on K-1 but other parts are the same or even favor the K-1ii. Lower left is quite different than upper right, eg.
The lens has much to say on that.

When I first tested my K1 with the kit 24-70 lens I was very disappointed, as the results were less sharp and contrasty than my 16 Mp APS-C Nikon Coolpix A compact camera.

Once I found the "clarity" parameter and set it to +4, the difference in quality was pretty obvious, gaining an outstanding transparency and natural contrast. However the sharpness still remained the same.

Once I swapped the Pentax-Tamron lens for Zeiss Distagon lenses, the change was really big, gaining micro-contrast and sharpness across the whole frame, but especially being more evident on the outer frame perimeter, where the sharpness of the Pentax-Tamron is certainly poor.
05-16-2018, 05:00 PM - 2 Likes   #357
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Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting
05-16-2018, 05:16 PM   #358
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That dr of almost 2 is impressive at iso 800. Seems a specific test needs to be done to appreciate this. Bclaff seems a genuine person but is great with what as opposed to why. Dpr has no horse in the race to show how this helps. Landscapers have a horse but don't care. It seems like a huge pentax edge that will go under the radar.
05-16-2018, 05:51 PM   #359
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05-16-2018, 06:09 PM - 2 Likes   #360
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
That dr of almost 2 is impressive at iso 800. Seems a specific test needs to be done to appreciate this. Bclaff seems a genuine person but is great with what as opposed to why. Dpr has no horse in the race to show how this helps. Landscapers have a horse but don't care. It seems like a huge pentax edge that will go under the radar.
Bill is a genuine person. FYI, I shot the K-1 II FF images that he used . Had to do it 4 times because the first 3 kept getting strange values and the program wouldn't accept the shots.

I think DPR's point of contention is the higher dynamic range at ISO>640 is coming from NR, and in theory is something you could achieve with the K-1 and noise reduction software in post. And some may not apply NR at all, though I think that is only likely for lower range ISO, ie. maybe 640-1600 . Beyond that, you probably would always apply NR unless you are doing very small prints, in which case sharpness/detail wouldn't matter. If you are doing crops, it's very likely you would apply some NR.

One odd thing is that K-1 produced some values outside of normal range above ISO 25,600, but K-1 II is normal range all the way to ISO 204,800 - even though it has the NR.
If you plot the 645Z against K-1 II, it's an interesting comparison, too.
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