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05-16-2018, 04:21 AM   #1
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K-1mkII overpowered NR. Firmware update?

After reading pages and pages of hate towards DPR K-1mkII review and disappointment in overpowered NR in RAW, there is no answer, even on theoretical level; Can it be adjusted via next firmware update?


Last edited by Racer X 69; 05-17-2018 at 04:18 AM.
05-16-2018, 04:51 AM - 3 Likes   #2
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Of course it can be adjusted in a future update. The fact that it is turned-off at low ISO implies it can be turned off.
05-16-2018, 04:53 AM - 1 Like   #3
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Possible it may be, but if done nobody know.
05-16-2018, 05:05 AM - 1 Like   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Of course it can be adjusted in a future update. The fact that it is turned-off at low ISO implies it can be turned off.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Possible it may be, but if done nobody know.
Sooo, is hope for future firmware update enough for spending 500$ on upgrade K-1 to mkII?

05-16-2018, 05:25 AM - 2 Likes   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Sooo, is hope for future firmware update enough for spending 500$ on upgrade K-1 to mkII?
Respectfully, only you can answer that as it pertains to you.

There hasn't been any announcement from Ricoh that the image accelerator's noise reduction will become switchable or adjustable via firmware. Personally, I think it will be dealt with in an update, but there's always a chance that it won't - or that the update will take some considerably time to appear.

I advise what I always advise - don't buy something (camera or upgrade) unless it does exactly what you want right now. Buying on the basis of "what might be" will lead to frustration if delays occur, and certain disappointment if it doesn't materialise. You might be better off keeping your K-1 original for now, then if and when the firmware update appears, sell the K-1 and buy the K-1II...
05-16-2018, 05:40 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Respectfully, only you can answer that as it pertains to you.

There hasn't been any announcement from Ricoh that the image accelerator's noise reduction will become switchable or adjustable via firmware. Personally, I think it will be dealt with in an update, but there's always a chance that it won't - or that the update will take some considerably time to appear.

I advise what I always advise - don't buy something (camera or upgrade) unless it does exactly what you want right now. Buying on the basis of "what might be" will lead to frustration if delays occur, and certain disappointment if it doesn't materialise. You might be better off keeping your K-1 original for now, then if and when the firmware update appears, sell the K-1 and buy the K-1II...
Well I'm just voicing question witch every K-1 owner have in their mind now.
05-16-2018, 05:52 AM - 3 Likes   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Well I'm just voicing question witch every K-1 owner have in their mind now.

Well, not everyone is concerned about being able to switch the accelerator's NR off... I've read a couple of posts already from people that are delighted with the K-1II's image quality right out of the box. It's going to be an individual thing as to who cares and who doesn't. But my advice to those that do care would be precisely what I've stated - don't buy the upgrade or the new camera on the basis of an update that may or may not occur. That way, there can be no frustration or disappointment
05-16-2018, 06:49 AM - 5 Likes   #8
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I am in the same boat... love my K-1, but would like the promised better AF, and the possibility of getting more FW updates in the future as the K-1 falls off the update list.

As to an update to specifically choose where NR kicks in and out of RAW, that would be most helpful to allay a lot of peoples angst.

BUT... I'd like to mention something else which I feel is a little bit of a 900lb silent gorilla in the room:

When I first got my K-1, coming from a K-5 classic, I was surprised a little by the amount of noise at base iso and 100% viewing compared to the K-5, and I find myself applying NR in post to RAW in ACR to files as early as iso600 or so. This takes time, and effort... if the built in NR just mildly puts back what I was used to with the K-5 as to noise, and doesn't smear it any worse than I would do with ACR in PP, then is there really a problem??? I realize there is the whole viewing size / number of pixels equation, I get that, don't please start with the math. I totally get that too.

Why worry about noise at 100%? Who cares what files look like at 100% ? Well what about 80% or 60% which is more likely to be a common crop? Well, if you want to get a sharp shot with a steady hold on your lens wide open for that creamy bokeh without a lot of noise ruining the shot on a shorter brighter lens, and / or your lens minimum focus distance doesn't let you fill the screen with your subject, or you don't have time to change to your long lens, or you didn't bring your long lens, you didn't bring your macro, or your subject is moving and you are trying to keep in inside the AF points border, or... or... or... lets suffice it to say there are a whole lot of reasons you might be doing heavy cropping.

Finally... my last thought that nags at me... The percentage of missed focus pics is going to ruin a whole lot more shots and be a whole lot more noticeable than any baked in mild NR applied!!!!

I guess I am trying to talk myself back into doing the upgrade, and that is my current rational. Still kinda on the fence, but I hate the idea of being left out in the cold on future FW updates... plus, part of me wonders if there will be even more AF tweaks in future FW updates, made possible by the new board, that my old K-1 won't be able to use.


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05-16-2018, 07:07 AM - 7 Likes   #9
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I don't care if Pentax makes the iso that the accelerator kicks in optional or not. I think these threads are full of pixel peepers perseverating over very tiny differences that just aren't going to make any difference for 98 percent of images shot at normal viewing/printing sizes. Beyond which, if you are wanting to print maximal sizes, you are going to want to shoot as low iso as possible -- not in the iso 800 plus where the accelerator chip will be kicking in.

Long story short, DP Review has made Much Ado about very little and while you can pick out miniscule differences between the K-1 and k-1 II, the end results are going to be more similar than different.
05-16-2018, 07:15 AM - 2 Likes   #10
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The seeming difficulty in getting a very clear answer what and where are the purported deterioration in quality due to the variety of post processing chains has made me think that this is overblown.

There are likely corner cases where it becomes an issue. Every body/sensor combination has corner cases, as well lenses. Every body that I have bought has require me to adjust my post processing, and find the different limits. It takes me a year because each season presents different lighting situations.

So where are they with the mark II? I intend to find out. I expect more in focus shots, better color in the difficult conditions that I find myself in, and less of the type of noise that is difficult to remove.

I was shooting the other day with my K1 and wishing I had the layering function.

Each to his own. Don't trust a review that can't get the test shots in focus.
05-16-2018, 07:59 AM - 1 Like   #11
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Why would anyone want to turn off the Accelerator Unit so the images look like what the K-1 delivers? The Accelerator Unit is a huge improvement over what the K-1 delivers. Most especially at the pixel level. What is happening at the pixel level translates into more natural 3D rendering when viewed at full view. Like when you make a print. Isn't that the end goal after all?

This whole fallacy that there is blurring and smoothing loss of detail happening due to the Accelerator Unit just isn't true. If it were happening it would be happening evenly across the image which it is not. The only areas (lower left corner and upper right corner) that are blurred in the DP Studio Scene are spots that are out of focus due to lack of squareness to the focal plane which has nothing to do with what the Accelerator Unit is doing.

Even the PF Studio setup shows no loss of detail due to the Accelerator Unit. PF needs to do a more professional comparison image as well. Because the scene is not centered the same for both cameras creates distortion between the two images that make it unreliable to judge things equally. Such as the writing on the PCI card. The slight difference in angle of view the letters are going to have a slightly different shape which can make one appear "more" sharp than the other at the pixel level.
05-16-2018, 08:09 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Can it be adjusted via next firmware update?
It is difficult to know whether the engineers left one or more "hooks" accessible to the high level firmware. How anyone on this site would know about this possibility is even harder to plumb.


Steve

(...waiting for the inevitable comment suggesting other makers are much better at rolling out feature-rich firmware updates...)

Last edited by stevebrot; 05-16-2018 at 08:21 AM.
05-16-2018, 08:15 AM - 2 Likes   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
Why would anyone want to turn off the Accelerator Unit so the images look like what the K-1 delivers?
There are probably 100+ comments detailing the rational. I would suggest that it follows the same logic as removing the anti-alias filter, but providing emulation via the SR system. Why would anyone want to intentionally blur the capture by switching on the emulation? (Hint...it might improve photos of some subjects.)


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05-16-2018, 08:38 AM - 1 Like   #14
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I suppose only the Pentax/Ricoh engineers that applied any type feature would be the only people who know actually to what extent the features are being applied and what the characteristics are. Obviously if they see that something has an ill affect on performance, they are going to know where it originates. These cameras are thoroughly tested and analyzed. If a minimal problem is noticed and is proved to actually exist, I am sure the Quality Assurance and engineers would give it attention and remedy it as needed. I don't use post processing for a majority of my images and am satisfied with the excellent resolution I am getting from my K-1 II.
05-16-2018, 09:29 AM   #15
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I'm waiting on a couple things. More user reports, and the redone DPR tests with the same lens.

What's interesting to me is that when it came to the K1 ll samples at DPR, everyone in the comments seemed to like them. I downloaded several raw high iso samples and liked them.

There are areas in the +6 EV iso 100 push comparison chart (such as the brown hair) where the K1 does much better than the K1 ll. If the K1 ll is doing no NR at iso 100, then it must be the lens, or there is some other kind of signal processing going on, or the tests were different in some other way.
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