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05-25-2018, 01:55 AM   #1
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The CameraVille image quality comparison K-1 vs K-1 MKII

Lee from The CameraVille has posted his image quality comparison review on YouTube with some interesting results in terms of dynamic range and auto white balance.



05-25-2018, 02:37 AM   #2
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So, the major difference is a sligthly different AWB and ... the MK II's image being slightly more blurry (compare the texture on the two armchairs in, say the ISO6400 comparison shots).



And the strange violet tinge the MKII shows in the low-light dynamic range tests.


Maybe Lee should have used a fixed WB preset instead of AWB?


I've stopped using AWB 'bout 15 years ago. Never missed it since.


And I've yet to find a reason to shell out more than 500 bucks to "upgrade" my K-1. No, I'm definitively not impressed.

Last edited by funktionsfrei; 05-25-2018 at 02:38 AM. Reason: typo
05-25-2018, 02:56 AM   #3
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He has a good comparison between K-1 and $ony A7r3 and Nikon D850(those owners will be disappointed).
05-25-2018, 07:15 AM - 1 Like   #4
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About the blurry image - the focus point is different on those pictures.

05-25-2018, 08:13 AM   #5
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Interesting. But ultimately, punchier images from the K-1 mkII, better under-exposed images from the k-1, loss of detail at extremely high ISO, better to use the K-1.

My take is 100-800 at 0.0 EV where I like to shoot the K1-mkii will produce punchier images. What does that mean? Probably that I would alter my K-1 preset from a contrast value of 2 to1, and my contrast setting from 1 to .5, and get essentially the same image after step one of the PP process.

So far, not a lot of value to the K-1 mkII, unless it's to be found in the new AF algorithm.

It certainly doesn't look like the Accelerator chip did what it was supposed to do in very high ISO images.

QuoteQuote:
About the blurry image - the focus point is different on those pictures.
Same lens (Rokinon 14 2.8, which I own. The DoF is extremely wide. That's extremely unlikely. About half the play in the focus ring is in focal at any given setting. He would have had to move the hyperfocla setting to somewhere pass infinity to mess up that shot.
05-25-2018, 08:36 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Same lens (Rokinon 14 2.8, which I own. The DoF is extremely wide. That's extremely unlikely. About half the play in the focus ring is in focus at any given setting. He would have had to move the hyperfocal settings to somewhere past infinity to mess up that shot.
A correction of the above, post which for some reason, I can't correct.

Intersting, the comparison here. K-1 vs. Sony ARiii and Nikon D850

People can complain about the K-1, but that only begs the question, "what's better?" And, if you were a pentax user, for his test shots, a studio set with no movement, using pixel shift on the K-1 would probably have blown away the A7Rii as well.

Last edited by normhead; 05-25-2018 at 11:54 AM.
05-25-2018, 09:09 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
produce punchier images
Ya! It does so. But what I have seen is that this starts to happen as soon as the accelerator kicks in. Only radical difference I have noted at base ISO is that mk2 allows extremely long exposures without LENR. Not many are interested in those though it seems.
05-25-2018, 10:03 AM   #8
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Same dynamic range - Not the same WB

Relax. There is the same differentiation in the wood of the black table (darkest of the darkest parts of the picture). The whitebalance is not the same. K-1 II also has higher color saturation than K-1. K-1II needs to be properly calibrated by the raw software (where as i suppose the higher saturation will be pulled back and finally give nicer high ISO results than pushing paler K-1 images).

05-25-2018, 11:30 AM   #9
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The high ISO images out of the K-1 MkII are more malleable in post- better color saturation with less NR required to make them usable. If you are shooting ISO 6400 you are most likely not planning on making 36" wide prints from those images. When you zoom out to even 100% level on a nice monitor after typical post-processing, the K-1 MkII images are more pleasing.
This entire "issue" is being blown way way out of proportion by the pixel-peeping crowd, as per usual, since we have been at the point where image quality stopped being a limitation back when the K-5 was released.

Last edited by DennisP; 05-25-2018 at 11:36 AM.
05-25-2018, 11:48 AM   #10
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Obviously. starting with a better colour correction and vibrancy is in some cases going to be an advantage. Hence the mkII advantage. That is apparent up to 800 ISO where all your best shooting should be done in any case the mkII is net more desirable camera. As a landscape shooter, that's big. The high ISO results are a little frustrating, but since I rarely publish images taken over 3200 ISO on the K-1 or 640 ISO on the K-3, that is pretty much moot.

Or to be more blunt, those are not technically good pictures, no matter what you do. Only interesting subject matter might make them worthwhile, and even that's going to be a stretch.

Last edited by normhead; 05-25-2018 at 11:55 AM.
05-25-2018, 12:13 PM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by funktionsfrei Quote
So, the major difference is a sligthly different AWB and ... the MK II's image being slightly more blurry (compare the texture on the two armchairs in, say the ISO6400 comparison shots).



And the strange violet tinge the MKII shows in the low-light dynamic range tests.


Maybe Lee should have used a fixed WB preset instead of AWB?


I've stopped using AWB 'bout 15 years ago. Never missed it since.


And I've yet to find a reason to shell out more than 500 bucks to "upgrade" my K-1. No, I'm definitively not impressed.
I use AWB
I let the camera take a guess, then software can take a guess. If that is no good, there is usually something in the scene neutral enough to use for picking WB.

As for the purple.. DPR test shows the same and this is a disappointment. I asked Bill Claff about the purple and he said it was due to black point and could be caused by CFA.. this color shift in the DPR test could be due to camera variation. okay..

I wondered if maybe the CFA in the K-1 II could be different.. and if the shift is CFA-related and my K-1 doesn't do this color shift then maybe a K-1 upgraded to K-1 II would not show this shift to purple... I asked these questions and didn't get a reply and likely because he doesn't have info to give a good answer..

But here is another K-1 II with color shift...
Different CFA afterall or shift related to accelerator ?

+ if this shift is due to improper raw editor profile then that is okay; profiles will be created. I wonder what file format he is using. Looks like Adobe software but if the file info shown in the corner has format I can't read it.
05-25-2018, 01:02 PM   #12
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Y'all seem to be missing the part where on the best images the k-1II image is more true to life.

Someone needs to explain why you care if technically inferior images, taken at 6400 ISO with huge loss of both resolution and dynamic range, is being emphasized over a truer colour rendition at base ISO. I've been asking this question for years of various folks and always been met with the story wall of silence.

I have 2000 keepers on my SSD, not one 6400 image, and 73 3200 ISO images.
Do you guys actually keep 6400 ISO K-1 images? What percentage?

The point being, it would appear to me that you are discussing you are discussing images you probably don't want. Why you are doing that is beyond me. But I'm interested in some one saying "ya, I take a lot of 6400 ISO images and share an print them."

Tell me you're not just jawing about nothing here.
05-25-2018, 02:20 PM   #13
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If the CFA is not identical, how can they do the upgrade?
05-25-2018, 03:22 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
If the CFA is not identical, how can they do the upgrade?
I clutching for hope when I asked Bill about different CFA.

the hope clutch is slipping

---------- Post added 05-25-18 at 05:21 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Tan68 Quote
I use AWB
... I asked Bill Claff about the purple ...
This post, linked below, is the one I had in mind with my comment just above. I also asked if raw profiles could help with the color shift but got no response. The thread includes some figures Bill posts showing difference in black point between K-1 & K-1 II :
Help Sought Collecting Further PEFs for K-1 II Analysis at PhotonsToPhotos: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

This post in a different thread followed a few days later :
Pentax K-1 II Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) at PhotonsToPhotos: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
The post linked above includes :
Tan : If the result varies from one camera to the next, is this due to a characteristic of the sensor ?
Bill Claff : Not the sensor per se but circuits external to the sensor.
05-25-2018, 10:40 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I have 2000 keepers on my SSD, not one 6400 image, and 73 3200 ISO images.
Do you guys actually keep 6400 ISO K-1 images? What percentage?

The point being, it would appear to me that you are discussing you are discussing images you probably don't want. Why you are doing that is beyond me. But I'm interested in some one saying "ya, I take a lot of 6400 ISO images and share an print them."

Tell me you're not just jawing about nothing here.
I'm not complaining about the high-ISO performance of the K-1 ii (I mean, I'm still keeping an eye on how the testing goes), but yeah, I take a lot of ISO 6400 images and print them.

---------- Post added 05-25-18 at 10:43 PM ----------

I have more at 3200 on the K-5, which is probably comparable (if not slightly inferior) than the K-1 at 6400.
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