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05-29-2018, 03:48 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You need to get up to speed here. The DPR tests are ancient history.
Li had strong reservations with the K-1 II in the second video in regards to how it handles the notorious* "underexposed + pull values in post" use case. I am not fond of that technique (thread to follow in the near future telling why), but in addition to the things he called out, the loss of fine detail (e.g. rug) for the K-1 II was also quite evident.


Steve

* The behavior is of note, though I am not sure it makes sense to place full blame on the camera.

05-29-2018, 09:10 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You need to get up to speed here. The DPR tests are ancient history.
Sadly many reviewers don't know or at least don't understand that between different camera manufactures use different levels of highlight protection and think that iso 100 will give the same exposure across brands, It is these differences in exposure that give the false premise or inaccurate assumptions in there reviews.

The only reviews that I like to follow are the ones that know that different camera manufactures have different baseline exposure values for the raw converters to correctly develop the raw file.
Take the K1 and the D810 many think that the D810 somehow captures a larger signal at the same iso value and somehow cheats because of this increased signal it captures. Truth be told for the same iso the D810 captures 2/3rd or more less signal than the K1 or k1II2, If one was to look at the baseline exposure , look at the data in a raw viewer or use the cameras can quickly tell you that the pentax (in most of the cameras that I use) capture a larger exposure for the same iso.

and this will lead viewers to the wrong assumptions.
05-29-2018, 11:51 PM   #18
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Good statement:

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Also, can we please avoid derailing this thread into a flame war? I feel like there is potential for legitimate discussion as long as we keep things factual.
Followed by the exact opposite:

QuoteOriginally posted by rcolman Quote
What is wrong with you guys?
...
I am a troll, an agent of DPR, don't know what I am doing ...
the fanboys have nothing better to do.

Yep, the rcolman type of user is really adding attractiveness to a "friendly forum". Who doesn't want to come where those types yell rude stuff at the community at large.
05-30-2018, 01:07 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by rcolman Quote
*** I would be very surprised to see a firmware update that "fixes the IQ problem." If it was easy to fix in software, they would have done it before release. The engineers are not dummies. This smells like a "work-around" which is the best they can do with the current platform.
I would be surprised too, but for different reasons. Pentax needs to be convinced there is an issue first, before they can consider fixing it.
I am not privvy to the internals of the camera, but the evidence is that the accelerator NR is turned off at ISO < 640 . And ISO is a user-configurable setting in the firmware. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a way to code different firmware that just turns off the accelerator processing for all ISOs. It may be a marketing or engineering that led to the current state, or both. I think convincing Pentax a change is needed will be the more difficult thing.
Certainly, I'm happy with my K-1 II and love the images I'm getting out of it, including the lack of noise at high ISOs. If a firmware comes with a selectable option, I will be keeping the NR on. Haven't tried astro yet.

05-30-2018, 02:35 AM - 1 Like   #20
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I think for most purposes the K-1 II is preferable to the K-1, but it maybe for astro photography it isn't -- I haven't actually seen any photos that actually show it eating stars, but if it does, that wouldn't be great.

My guess is that Pentax will eventually release some kind of a firmware update that will allow the accelerator chip to be disabled, say, up to iso 6400. This seems like the best possible option to do their best to make everyone happy.

I don't think it would be that hard to switch the iso that the accelerator chip kicks in -- as it is, below iso 640 is shot without it as well. However, as Adam says, I think most people who are buying it or are upgrading their K-1s for it are pretty happy as is.
05-30-2018, 05:07 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think for most purposes the K-1 II is preferable to the K-1, but it maybe for astro photography it isn't -- I haven't actually seen any photos that actually show it eating stars, but if it does, that wouldn't be great.



So far, no "star eater" effect reported.

QuoteOriginally posted by SSGGeezer Quote
Looking at the uncropped and stacked images, you can see there is not a "Star Eater" here. Nice images. maybe one day soon it won't be raining, snowing or just cloudy and cold so I can get out in the yard and do some shooting.

Last edited by reh321; 05-30-2018 at 05:54 AM.
05-30-2018, 09:40 AM - 7 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by rcolman Quote
What is wrong with you guys?
Excuse me?

QuoteQuote:
I tried very hard to come up with a reasoned and logical assessment of what I have personally seen and done, based upon my needs as a photographer. I OWN/OWNED BOTH CAMERAS, and have many sample images.
Well, if you think that's really how your post came across---in the title and the first sentence!---and beyond---you and I have a fundamental disagreement on how one goes about engaging in civil discourse. You might consider some of the reactions you've received in that context.

QuoteQuote:
So, what is the majority response?
Majority? After just several replies?

QuoteQuote:
I am a troll, an agent of DPR, don't know what I am doing after 40 years in photography and 20 years doing astrophotography. I currently own an extensive line of Sony and now Pentax cameras and lenses. I have owned and used, and am quite familiar with Olympus, Canon platforms. I write software, some of it for imaging.

I expected better, but, it seems like the fanboys have nothing better to do.
I'm always amazed (so by now I guess I shouldn't be...) how someone will start off with an aggressive or vehement or confrontational post, and then be thin skinned about the responses they get to that. Irrespective of the other content in your post and its possible validity, you gave us some rudeness and got some back in return, and now you're upset about it. You'll get zero sympathy from me, and in fact the manner in which you have pursued this has completely undercut your credibility with me, regardless of your experience. If that was your intention, then congrats, you succeeded admirably. If not, might I respectfully suggest a softer touch next time? No so much with regards to our delicate feelings, but with a mind towards common civility.
05-30-2018, 01:02 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Excuse me?

Well, if you think that's really how your post came across---in the title and the first sentence!---and beyond---you and I have a fundamental disagreement on how one goes about engaging in civil discourse. You might consider some of the reactions you've received in that context.

Majority? After just several replies?

I'm always amazed (so by now I guess I shouldn't be...) how someone will start off with an aggressive or vehement or confrontational post, and then be thin skinned about the responses they get to that. Irrespective of the other content in your post and its possible validity, you gave us some rudeness and got some back in return, and now you're upset about it. You'll get zero sympathy from me, and in fact the manner in which you have pursued this has completely undercut your credibility with me, regardless of your experience. If that was your intention, then congrats, you succeeded admirably. If not, might I respectfully suggest a softer touch next time? No so much with regards to our delicate feelings, but with a mind towards common civility.


Well written, I thank you for expressing my thoughts exactly.

05-30-2018, 04:45 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Excuse me?

Well, if you think that's really how your post came across---in the title and the first sentence!---and beyond---you and I have a fundamental disagreement on how one goes about engaging in civil discourse. You might consider some of the reactions you've received in that context.

Majority? After just several replies?

I'm always amazed (so by now I guess I shouldn't be...) how someone will start off with an aggressive or vehement or confrontational post, and then be thin skinned about the responses they get to that. Irrespective of the other content in your post and its possible validity, you gave us some rudeness and got some back in return, and now you're upset about it. You'll get zero sympathy from me, and in fact the manner in which you have pursued this has completely undercut your credibility with me, regardless of your experience. If that was your intention, then congrats, you succeeded admirably. If not, might I respectfully suggest a softer touch next time? No so much with regards to our delicate feelings, but with a mind towards common civility.
Bravo.
05-30-2018, 11:50 PM   #25
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Original Poster
wrote the original piece as a description of my personal experiences and opinions.
I have no position, no axe to grind, nothing to gain or lose. In fact, I personally lost
about $500 switching back to the Mark 1.

At best, I was looking for a reasoned rebuttal of facts and data, something overlooked, something mistaken, etc.

I got darned few of those, but did get a number of FANBOY responses like:

"Do you own this camera, or are you just doing the parrot thing and repeating what a guy who is generally perceived to be an anti-Pentax moron over at DPR says."

"Is this like a robot troll bait post by DPR staff."

"He didn't even give us a shot at it. He just came and pontificated."

"The post is still a rambling bit of incoherence."

Calls for evidence to support some of my opinions will go unanswered.
Why would I want to subject myself to further abuse?

(unsubscribed)
05-30-2018, 11:58 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by rcolman Quote
wrote the original piece as a description of my personal experiences and opinions.
I have no position, no axe to grind, nothing to gain or lose. In fact, I personally lost
about $500 switching back to the Mark 1.

At best, I was looking for a reasoned rebuttal of facts and data, something overlooked, something mistaken, etc.

I got darned few of those, but did get a number of FANBOY responses like:

"Do you own this camera, or are you just doing the parrot thing and repeating what a guy who is generally perceived to be an anti-Pentax moron over at DPR says."

"Is this like a robot troll bait post by DPR staff."

"He didn't even give us a shot at it. He just came and pontificated."

"The post is still a rambling bit of incoherence."

Calls for evidence to support some of my opinions will go unanswered.
Why would I want to subject myself to further abuse?

(unsubscribed)
So, you've unsubscribed from your own thread because you did not like being called out on making a statement without backing it up?
That's a new tactic.
05-31-2018, 12:11 AM   #27
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Starting a thread with the intro sentence:

QuoteOriginally posted by rcolman Quote
What does it take for intelligent people to say stupid things?
now trying to call:

QuoteOriginally posted by rcolman Quote
I have no position, no axe to grind
...
And spitting on responses then:
QuoteOriginally posted by rcolman Quote
number of FANBOY responses

Nothing more to add to the excellent summary:
QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews:
I'm always amazed (so by now I guess I shouldn't be...) how someone will start off with an aggressive or vehement or confrontational post, and then be thin skinned about the responses they get to that. Irrespective of the other content in your post and its possible validity, you gave us some rudeness and got some back in return, and now you're upset about it. You'll get zero sympathy from me, and in fact the manner in which you have pursued this has completely undercut your credibility
05-31-2018, 05:01 AM - 1 Like   #28
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The DPReview of the K1ii is still the most comprehensive and complete review available for me. Pentax and Pentax forums worldwide have not provided more comprehensive data so far.
The general conclusion here is that DPR staff is stupid and against Pentax. They used one of the highest rated lenses in their review. I have not seen any discussion here why the highly regarded FA 50M failed in this review. DPR mentions that lack of a f/1.4 lens from Pentax for AF tracking - oops, Pentax' new line of f/1.4 is not existing. Any comments here? Other reviewers, appreciated highly in this forum, play around with two camera and Rokinon 14mm lenses... The Pentax forum review tries as well, but results are not the most convincing ones.

What do we expect from K1ii after announcement: K1 performance w.r.t. to noise levels were never a problem for me, handheld pixel shift is a nice to have feature, AF performance is most interesting. DPR commented on AF performance positivly compared to K1. More reviews with educated comments about AF would be interesting.
All this detective work in reviews of others are a waste of time.
05-31-2018, 06:19 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by rcolman Quote
wrote the original piece as a description of my personal experiences and opinions.
I have no position, no axe to grind, nothing to gain or lose. In fact, I personally lost
about $500 switching back to the Mark 1.

At best, I was looking for a reasoned rebuttal of facts and data, something overlooked, something mistaken, etc.

I got darned few of those, but did get a number of FANBOY responses like:

"Do you own this camera, or are you just doing the parrot thing and repeating what a guy who is generally perceived to be an anti-Pentax moron over at DPR says."

"Is this like a robot troll bait post by DPR staff."

"He didn't even give us a shot at it. He just came and pontificated."

"The post is still a rambling bit of incoherence."

Calls for evidence to support some of my opinions will go unanswered.
Why would I want to subject myself to further abuse?

(unsubscribed)
You might look yourself for evidence of "star eating", since you say "astro" is so important to you. You apparently have the experience and motivation to do something like that, and it would be a much better use of your time than throwing an emotional hand-grenade and then walking away from it all.
05-31-2018, 10:50 AM   #30
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I love my K-1ii, I shoot rock stars (low and variable light cast on a moving target) and pretty girls and flowers.. well pretty girls could mean the same thing as flowers.. but here I mean to suggest flora
Autofocus is snappy in S and C modes. So far I have primarily used my Pentax 28-105 and the Sigma 105 2.8 (sharp as a tack and fast). I also have a Sigma 24mm 1.8 and a Pentax 50mm 1.4
I moved up from the K-3 - I am keeping it to shoot ballerinas (very pretty girls) in action due to the faster frame rate.
DR rocks.
I can crop to the cows come home and still get a great image
I may try to eat a star in the future just to see the fascination with this type of photography.
THERE - there is my review.. I love it. >>>>> sidebar: I appreciate all of the technical discussions as I do learn new things.. but not as much as actually using the tool..
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