[ogl]

So eager to attack others... yet you can't be bothered to make sense. The following message, you thought I desired it into appearing?And yeah, I know how to get rid of it.

I have no such message. What do I do in wrong way?

Attached Images

 

[Class A]

Something seems off with Lenstip's Pixel Shift images as they have a different white balance and do not show the increase in clarity one would expect.

My main point, though, is that I find it strange that sites like DPReview or Lenstip compare the K-1 (II) to cameras like the Sony A7RIII or Nikon D850.

Amazon prices:

1. K-1 II: $1,996.95 (100%)
2. A7RIII: $3,198.00 (160%)
3. D850: $3,296.95 (165%)

I'm assuming the differences would be even larger if I applied original introduction prices to all of these camera models.

I would expect better performance from sensors in these much more expensive cameras. Are the A7RIII and D850 then compared to MF cameras? I think not.
I don't know what Lenstip say (see below) but for sure DPReview is way off when evaluating the value for money proposition of the K-1 II.

Also, the difference in resolution (36MP vs 42MP) makes comparisons more difficult.

Regarding the IQ differences between K-1 and K-1 II, well-done comparisons reveal that there is noticeably less noise (in particular chroma noise) in the K-1 II images but that this comes at the expense of some slight loss of detail and sometimes some processing artefacts. After post-processing, a K-1 image can look better than a K-1 II image. EDIT: Different post-processing (including extra sharpening) can make the results look a lot closer, though. I'm seeing some artefacts in the K-1 II result and am sceptical whether this detail recovery is possible in other scenarios (e.g., the smudged dust on the electronic component in the pentaxforums.com comparison).

Some people are grateful for in-camera processing, others maintain that all RAW data manipulation is to be left for out-of-camera processing as otherwise information will be lost in the in-camera processing.

I'm very happy with my K-1 and whether or not the K-1 II will support an option to deactivate the currently mandatory RAW denoising is not much of a concern to me personally. However, for future Pentax FF DSLRs, I very much hope that there will be an option to avoid RAW denoising.

P.S.: I cannot read the Lenstip review due to the re-occurring cookie consent notification when viewing the translated page. This is a shame as the review seems interesting, but I'm not compromising my browser settings to accommodate the combination of a website and Google translate.

[Kunzite]

I have no such message. What do I do in wrong way?

Why are you even thinking about 'right' and 'wrong' when this is just about a difference in behavior?You might have that cookie already set (if so, the site doesn't show that message). Or Javascript disabled, as that's done by a script. I don't believe they're serving you a different version of the site, but that's theoretically possible, too.

Anyway, this was intended as an observation, not a prolonged discussion.

[teiki arii]

Something seems off with Lenstip's Pixel Shift images as they have a different white balance and do not show the increase in clarity one would expect.

My main point, though, is that I find it strange that sites like DPReview or Lenstip compare the K-1 (II) to cameras like the Sony A7RIII or Nikon D850.

Amazon prices:

1. K-1 II: $1,996.95 (100%)
2. A7RIII: $3,198.00 (160%)
3. D850: $3,296.95 (165%)

I'm assuming the differences would be even larger if I applied original introduction prices to all of these camera models.

I would expect better performance from sensors in these much more expensive cameras. Are the A7RIII and D850 then compared to MF cameras? I think not.
I don't know what Lenstip say (see below) but for sure DPReview is way off when evaluating the value for money proposition of the K-1 II.

Hello Class A, I do not feel offended at all by this comparison table! I feel normal that the reviewer compares respectively flagship vessels of different brands.
Despite the fact that A7RIII and Nikon 850 could produce better pictures (I am not sure of it), Pentax K-1/K-1 MKII is the only DSLR OVF FF body that includes SR/IBIS mode! Besides, despite the fact that sensor is "old", the way Pentax worked on it is very very good, even with K-1 MKII.. Of course, if the rewiewer had compared EOS 6D/MKII, Nikon D750/D610, Sony A7RII to K-1/MKII, it would have been a "fair" comparison according to price. Not about sensor comparison only but about individual needs....

[Rondec]

The interesting thing to me is that I don't really see that the D850 or A7r III give better image quality over the K1 II, they just give more images (faster frame rate) and 4K video. That something if you are interested in either of those things, but it is different from saying that the image quality in the K-1 II is inferior to that of newer cameras.

Unfortunately it also says that we may be getting to the end of what can be accomplished with sensor tech alone with regard to improving dynamic range and high iso performance and going forward those things will come more from software, whether in camera or out of camera.

[ogl]

Anyway, this was intended as an observation, not a prolonged discussion.

No any connection between cookies, Java and the review of K-1II.

[biz-engineer]

Unfortunately it also says that we may be getting to the end of what can be accomplished with sensor tech alone with regard to improving dynamic range and high iso performance and going forward those things will come more from software, whether in camera or out of camera.

The number of times that your camera settings are not maxing out the sensor capability... Lots of folk splitting hairs for 5% differences in noise or sharpness while their camera settings are off 1 or 2 stops away from using the max sensor capability in real life shooting. Using SR, TAv and using 4x normal shutter speed gives me only 400% better IQ, not mentioning ETTR. Just putting a little thinking before taking the shot gets me way beyond DPR comparison chart.

[beholder3]

My main point, though, is that I find it strange that sites like DPReview or Lenstip compare the K-1 (II) to cameras like the Sony A7RIII or Nikon D850.

Amazon prices:

1. K-1 II: $1,996.95 (100%)
2. A7RIII: $3,198.00 (160%)
3. D850: $3,296.95 (165%)

That is just one local view. In Germany:

Amazon prices:

1. K-1 II: 1,999 EUR (100%)
2. A7RIII: 3,724 EUR (186%)
3. D850: 3,799 EUR (190%) [lowest major dealer price, camera not available on Amazon other than marketplace]

So basically it is double price. And there is no other quality which buyers will use as much to limited choices of a comparison than price range.
Nobody who wants to buy a car compares the flagship Subaru against a flagship Bentley.

Then again the price difference between the two other cameras above compared to a 645Z or GFX50 is much smaller. And if price difference is not an issue then why not compare the flagships against the Phase One and hammer them all?

Then how consistent is it to begin a review with a personal opinion based on price level:

The K-1 II faces stiff competition from other full frame models at this price point, many of which out-spec it across the board.

and then suddenly forget the own statement and only compare to cameras which cost twice as much instead of "other full frame models at this price point"?

That is biased negative cherry picking.

[biz-engineer]

and then suddenly forget the own statement and only compare to cameras which cost twice as much instead of "other full frame models at this price point"?

The general background is Pentax is generally not liked by people who never used Pentax anyway, doesn't matter what the Pentax specs actually are, they don't know why but they know Pentax is not good. Even people who formerly used a Pentax camera are more moderate then people who have no idea of the Pentax specs. I was told straight in my face by a Nikon shooter, about the K1, "Throw away this s**t and get yourself a real camera" (a Nikon of course), after shooting side by side with him (D810) and getting the exact same photographs.. Looks like Pentax is the annoying villain that should be gotten rid of.

Personally, I prefer to let them talk and know that I spent half the money that they spent.

[Class A]

Hello Class A, I do not feel offended at all by this comparison table!

I don't mind it either, but it should be mentioned that the K-1 II is compared to cameras that are not in the same league.

In particular, when it comes to the "value for money" assessment, one must not forget how well the K-1 II is holding its own against much more expensive models in practically all areas except AF-C and fps.

Despite the fact that A7RIII and Nikon 850 could produce better pictures (I am not sure of it), Pentax K-1/K-1 MKII is the only DSLR OVF FF body that includes SR/IBIS mode!

Yes, you and I and many others know that but when you read DPReview's review you are made to believe that the K-1 II is outdated and is not worth your money.
Comparing against more expensive bodies is a way to support this view. I'm not saying they are doing it on purpose but it just turns out that many times the things they do conspire against a Pentax product.

Besides, despite the fact that sensor is "old", the way Pentax worked on it is very very good, even with K-1 MKII.

Yes, it is a great sensor and much more than good enough for most of us.

I'd rather have the K-1 than a Sony or Nikon star eater.

[teiki arii]

I'd rather have the K-1 than a Sony or Nikon star eater.

Yes, you're perfectly right, that's the point: but is K-1 MKII a "star eater"? Did someone make the experiment?

---------- Post added 03-06-18 at 05:26 ----------

The general background is Pentax is generally not liked by people who never used Pentax anyway, doesn't matter what the Pentax specs actually are, they don't know why but they know Pentax is not good.

Hello biz-engineer,
You are perfectly right, before going for Pentax, I had Minolta SLR, Nikon SLR, Leica SLR (I still use their fantastic lenses), Canon DSLR (to fit with my Leica lenses, Canon lenses considered too bad compared to Leica-R lenses)... Pentax was sounded really naff and old hat IMHO until Pentax K-1, I was completely wrong, I sincerely apologise. Even for Pentax lenses, there are ridiculously unknown gems like D-FA Macro 50, D-FA MACRO 100, vintage FA 85/1.4, D-FA 31 unlimited, HD D-FA 15-30, HD D-FA 70-200, vintage FA 28-80 and FA 80-200, DA 200, DA 300 usables on FF format and so on... The Achilles heel of the Pentax system is "sport" Autofocus for people who need it. But let's get serious, I made better pictures without than with Autofocus. I am from a generation of people who were born without autofocus, and we didn't wait for Autofocus to get great shots, did we? I understand for younger people that they think that Autofocus seems crucial to get a good shot but it's definitively not! So, not to have the last autofocus is not an issue...
I loved Canon EOS 6D, and I still think it is the best Canon DSLR camera according to my needs for the price, but Pentax K-1 plays in another league, that's all. It's just a matter of needs and performance price ratio, nothing less nothing more...

Personally, I prefer to let them talk and know that I spent half the money that they spent.

I prefer them to talk but I don't really mind if they spent more money, it's actually not my concern. Most of them want the last technology because of addiction and feeling of power than looking for a real good shot... That's my belief. Perhaps I am wrong, but it still doesn't matter anyway... I am in peace with myself and my own decision.

[Tan68]

No any connection between cookies, Java and the review of K-1II.

I agree. cookies, coffee, & K-1 got no thing in common :^)

+ nothing other than pleasing alliteration..


---------- Post added 06-03-18 at 09:42 AM ----------

Yes, you're perfectly right, that's the point: but is K-1 MKII a "star eater"? Did someone make the experiment?

DPR Rishi posted in a thread that he plans to do exactly this experiment.
I don't recall if he mentioned the plan would be to include results in the K-1 II review or to write a separate article as was done for original pixel shift or dynamic pixel shift.

+ as I posted in another thread here, Rishi also stated that K-1 II is a star-eater on steroids. Since this comment was made before any test performed, Rishi's interpretation of results could fall victim to ..conformal bias.

[teiki arii]

../.. as I posted in another thread here, Rishi also stated that K-1 II is a star-eater on steroids. Since this comment was made before any test performed, Rishi's interpretation of results could fall victim to ..conformal bias.

Yes that is a shame, isn't it? How can someone tell this camera is a "star eater" if he dind't make the experiment?! That's a nonsense or a scandale as you wish... These people invented themselves as "journalists"..
It reminds me: "we have prooves that russians interfered in our business to knock down" who you know, but nobody could show any prooves. As we forgot at the same time, that former US president interfered between the two rounds of the french Presidential election to support the new president... If russian had done it, what should happened in your view?