[JPT]

There are two things I have observed that indicate that the K-1 II has has a successful launch in Japan - not stellar like the D850 or recent A7 cameras, but solid nonetheless.

Firstly, the position of all K-1 series cameras on kakaku.com has improved. (This is a price comparison site for online sellers)
- For several months the K-1 has been between 60th and 80th in ILC cameras.
- After the release, the K-1 price dropped and it went up to around 30th, even going above the KP, which has been the top Pentax almost constantly since it's release.
- Today, the K-1 II is at 45th, the K-1 at 55th, the K-1 silver at 118th, and the K-1 II lens kit at 121st. Given that K-1 sales are split across four kits now, that performance is not bad at all. The KP is back at 25th now, so still the top seller.
- You can see where the K-1 sits against other full frame DSLR kits at this link http://kakaku.com/camera/digital-slr-camera/itemlist.aspx?pdf_ma=14,58,251&pdf_Spec113=1 Hope the link works.

Secondly, Ricoh announced that the upgrade service would be delayed for some customers on May 31. The reason they gave was "we have received applications that far exceeded our initial expectation". So it looks like the upgrade service is popular too.

I think that Japanese customers are much more likely see the benefit of the accelerator because they tend to judge based on printed output. There are a number of influential print magazines that run reviews of cameras. What overseas websites think about pixel level detail won't bother them much.

[Rondec]

Crazy. You would think people would want purity in their RAW files.

Just another sign of the decay of Japanese culture...

/sarc

[LensBeginner]

That's a big market for them... hope it helps them staying afloat.

[howieb101]

I have just visited Japan and based on two second hand camera stores there seemed to be plenty of K1's. It seems to me that it was a reasonably good seller. I guess the question about these 2nd hand K1's is if the buyers upgraded to a K1 II or have decided to move elsewhere.

It's also interesting to note that you will not see a new K3 or K3 II anywhere in the main chain stores in Japan. The K70, KP and K1 II are well stocked. For any visitor I suggest going to Yodobashi in Akihabara. The best display of Pentax products I saw in Japan. Across BIC Camera and Yodobashi it's nice to see Pentax products properly represented although their range is very limited to other brands.

As a side note, in Japan you often get to see the Sigma Foveon camera's in the big two chains.

Also, skip Map Camera in Tokyo if you are looking to buy 2nd hand. You won't find a bargain there.

Howie Be

[JPT]

It's true that Map Camera isn't the cheapest place to buy second hand lenses, but in their defense cheapness isn't really the appeal. They often have multiple copies you can try and compare before you commit, and they also give you a remarkably good warranty. They are probably one of the safest places to buy a lens. Of course, if you are going to take it out of the country, you might not care about the warranty.

Just one example of a lens I've sometimes looked at, they currently have 11 copies of the DA* 50-135 at between 45,000 and 53,000 yen, and they all come with a 12-month warranty. That's the same as Ricoh offers for new goods. You can get that lens cheaper by hunting around, but If I was going to buy a used SDM lens, I'd want a warranty.

By the way, the number of K-1s in the used stores has exploded since the K-1 II came out. I think it's mostly upgraders. Also, I noticed the Tamron 28-75mm in K-mount has been selling quite well recently. It's a bit of an assumption, but I think the cheaper K-1s on the market are enabling a new lower budget crowd to buy in to full frame.

[normhead]

The more we hear, the more it sounds like Pentax is a Japanese company that suits the Japanese mentality. They don't need to change to stay in the Japanese market.

No one has ever come up with a business plan that has it being worth while for Pentax to be anything other than that. Retail for Japan, on-line value for people who can evaluate the technology and understand it, for the rest of the world. Everyone wants to blame Pentax for not doing enough. The question being, if they can survive, just by catering to the Japanese market, and camera sales are shrinking why would they invest in international sales?

The insight on the forum seems to be Pentax needs to conquer the world. The Pentax way of doing it is keep your core business afloat and profitable in Japan, and sell as many camera to the rest of the world as you can, without paying the amount of money it takes to create an advertising/marketing presence.

There is not a soul outside of Pentax HQ, who knows what the numbers are. Everyone assumes the Pentax strategy will lead to their demise. In fact the opposite may be true. The Pentax strategy may be ensuring their future.

There is not an "expert" on this forum who knows anything about the realities of that strategy.

That's the reality. The nonsense is people posting what they personally would like pentax to do, and claiming they would increase market share if they did it.

[ffking]

It's a bit of an assumption, but I think the cheaper K-1s on the market are enabling a new lower budget crowd to buy in to full frame.

it would be great if people did get into Pentax FF through that route - they'd certainly have a long hard look at the next FF body to come along

[normhead]

it would be great if people did get into Pentax FF through that route - they'd certainly have a long hard look at the next FF body to come along

Actually this eliminates the last advantage the K-1s less capable competitors had. The D600 and 6D were competitively priced because they were available second hand. Once used K-1s are on the market second hand they are pretty much over-priced bricks.

[LensBeginner]

Actually this eliminates the last advantage the K-1s less capable competitors had. The D600 and 6D were competitively priced because they were available second hand. Once used K-1s are on the market second hand they are pretty much over-priced bricks.

I guess you could look at it both ways...
a) more used FF on the market -> more FF users overall -> more lens are bought
b) more used FF on the market -> less FF bought new -> less income for Ricoh
This is not a fact, just speculation

[normhead]

I guess you could look at it both ways...
a) more used FF on the market -> more FF users overall -> more lens are bought
b) more used FF on the market -> less FF bought new -> less income for Ricoh
This is not a fact, just speculation

In the end, more total bodies and more Pentax users in total will lead to more future demand. That part is pretty simple.
The only thing in question is will there actually be more Pentax users in total.
There are still a lot of people so caught up in the Nikon, Sony and Canon marketing that there are a lot of people looking to full frame who honestly believe a 6D or D600 would be better for them than a k-1. We've all heard the market speak ad nauseam.

Pentax did say half of K-1 users were new to Pentax, discussed in a thread that brought howls of indignation from the haters. So there is some actual evidence that the K-1 has already led to an increase in the number of Pentax users in total.

[SSGGeezer]

Pentax did say half o K-1 users were new to Pentax, discussed in a thread that brought howls of indignation from the haters.

So, the usual suspects then? Nellie and Nancy? Or Just the standard "Pentax is DOOMED™" crowd?

[normhead]

So, the usual suspects then? Nellie and Nancy? Or Just the standard "Pentax is DOOMED™" crowd?

They all come out of the woodwork when you say something positive about Pentax. I don't really differentiate.

The trick is to not say anything positive about Pentax unless you're feeling fiesty.

OK , that's what I do, many others say something positive about Pentax and then never return to the thread so they don't have to hear all that out of tune singing from the haters choir.

No one ever seems to noitice how many people who are happy with Pentax gear get run out of threads by the haters.

[SSGGeezer]

The trick is to not say anything positive about Pentax unless you're feeling fiesty.

I thought you were always feisty when talking about photography?

[reh321]

I guess you could look at it both ways...
a) more used FF on the market -> more FF users overall -> more lens are bought
b) more used FF on the market -> less FF bought new -> less income for Ricoh
This is not a fact, just speculation

You have over-simplified the process.
How did used FF come to be on the market?
If they are result of people's abandoning Pentax, that is not good.
If they are result of people's purchasing K1ii, that is very good.

Ultimately, this is all speculation.
It raises the post count here, which could make a slight increase in demand for K-1 if @Adam gives one to someone like me who had not planned to purchase one, but we don't have enough facts to cast light on the situation.

[normhead]

I thought you were always feisty when talking about photography?

One of my buddies after one of my speeches used to always say, "OK Norm, but now tell us what you really think." It has nothing to do with photography.

He also used to say "Norm, I don't care what everybody else thinks about you, you're OK with me."

He was a work acquaintance, I miss that guy.