MLU in HDR mode?

DanLumadue · 06-18-2018, 04:21 PM

Hello. I'd be grateful if anyone could answer the following: Is it possible to enable Mirror Lock Up and use the timer (either 2 or 12 seconds) when the K1 mii is in HDR mode?

I would like to use it to shoot landscapes but am concerned about mirror slap causing vibrations as the shutter opens and the sequential HDR captures are made in any of the HDR modes.

I know you can use MLU in other modes, and I know you can use it in HDR when using the shutter or remote, but I would like to use it with the timer to avoid having to push the shutter (thus causing camera shake), or using a remote from the front of the camera and risk getting in the shot. I also know you can use it on bracketed shots and make your own HDR in PP, but I would really like to use the HDR mode, especially since you can later separate the raw shots in the software if desired.

So - if someone could even run a test with their K1 mii (I haven't bought one yet as this is a big question for me) and let me know if, when in say HDR2 mode, and using the timer, if the mirror flips up (which I'm assuming would block the view through the viewfinder, so you could tell) before the shutter fires. If so, how long before the shutter fires does that mirror go up when using the 2 or 12 second timer.

Thanks so much!!!

pschlute · 06-18-2018, 05:40 PM - **1 Like**

I dont have the K1II and i have not used the k1 much in HDR mode. The DR of the K1 raw files are very easily processed to extend DR in a single capture.

A quick reading of the manual suggests you cannot use it with MLU, nor can you use it with LV Electronic shutter.

You can however use the remote to trigger the camera from behind as well as in front. Also from my experience mirror slap is not an issue with the K1, but shutter shock can be an isuue when used with a long (tripod mounted) lens in the 1/60-1/180 range. I have not seen it when the camera is mounted on a tripod (as opposed to the lens being mounted)

Hopefully someone with a Mark II can answer more fully.

Adam · 06-18-2018, 06:06 PM - **1 Like**

You cannot use MLU in HDR mode since the shots are taken in sequence, but if you are concerned about optimizing image quality you should just bracket normally, or use pixel shift. The in-camera HDR mode is more of a quick and dirty solution, though it does try to align the frames for you.

stevebrot · 06-18-2018, 06:09 PM - **1 Like**

Welcome to the Pentax Forums! The short answer is that HDR mode is not compatible with MLU.

Originally posted by DanLumadue

I know you can use MLU in other modes, and I know you can use it in HDR when using the shutter or remote

Unless something has changed, this is not true (see p108 in the K-1II user guide).

Originally posted by DanLumadue

I also know you can use it on bracketed shots and make your own HDR in PP

Unfortunately, this also is not possible. Drive modes are mutually exclusive and both bracketing and MLU are drive modes. Electronic shutter with MLU of a series using manual bracketing and wireless tether might work.

Steve

(...not a K-1/K-1II owner, but the conventions for HDR, bracketing and MLU on my K-3 are consistent with the K-1 series...)

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-18-2018 at 06:15 PM.

stevebrot · 06-18-2018, 06:14 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Adam

You cannot use MLU in HDR mode since the shots are taken in sequence

Thank you Adam. I was having difficulty figuring a way to explain "why not". Yes, HDR shots are done in sequence (one shutter push for all three exposures) and this does not work because MLU works by doing two shutter presses per exposure, the first to flip the mirror up and the second to make the exposure and let the mirror drop. I know, one would expect that choosing the option would flip the mirror up and leave it up until turned off, but that is not how it works. One would also think that both HDR and burst bracketing would be done on a single mirror cycle, but that also is not the case.

Steve

DanLumadue · 06-18-2018, 06:39 PM

Thank you all for your replies. I wonder if Pentax would ever do a firmware update that would allow the mirror-up and then the multiple HDR shots before cycling the mirror down. Meanwhile, I've been looking at a few of the HDR shots posted on the forum and some seem a little soft, so the traditional bracketing route may be best for now. Thanks for the input and ideas - much appreciated!

DanLumadue · 06-18-2018, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by pschlute

I dont have the K1II and i have not used the k1 much in HDR mode. The DR of the K1 raw files are very easily processed to extend DR in a single capture.

A quick reading of the manual suggests you cannot use it with MLU, nor can you use it with LV Electronic shutter.

You can however use the remote to trigger the camera from behind as well as in front. Also from my experience mirror slap is not an issue with the K1, but shutter shock can be an isuue when used with a long (tripod mounted) lens in the 1/60-1/180 range. I have not seen it when the camera is mounted on a tripod (as opposed to the lens being mounted)

Hopefully someone with a Mark II can answer more fully.

PSCHLUTE, it is helpful to know the remote triggers from behind as well. Thank you!

**SteveinSLC** · 06-18-2018, 07:44 PM - **1 Like**

Pretty sure you can use HDR in Live View mode though, which locks the mirror up by default(at least on the K-1).

pentaxfall · 06-18-2018, 07:56 PM - **1 Like**

MLU with Timer is not possible. I like that option but it is not there.

DanLumadue · 06-18-2018, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by SteveinSLC

Pretty sure you can use HDR in Live View mode though, which locks the mirror up by default(at least on the K-1).

Could anyone test SteveinSLC's idea on using HDR in Live View mode, please? That sounds like it might be just the ticket if it works.

biz-engineer · 06-18-2018, 10:09 PM - **1 Like**

In live view mode, the mirror does stay up when capturing an HDR sequence, but the mechanical shutter is still opening and closing three times.

biz-engineer · 06-18-2018, 10:14 PM - **1 Like**

All times activation of SR efficiently reduce the effect of mirror and shutter induced vibrations. SR On is now my default setting on the K1 and I am very happy with the results. And, permanent activation of SR combined with setting slow option on ISO deliver the best images I have seen. Of course, making full use of SR is limited to scene without moving elements.

pschlute · 06-18-2018, 10:28 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by DanLumadue

Could anyone test SteveinSLC's idea on using HDR in Live View mode, please? That sounds like it might be just the ticket if it works.

With K1 (and I presume the MkII version) you can use HDR in LV. However the shutter is still used to capture the pictures. In certain circumstances you may still see shutter shock. Using the Electronic Shutter in LV mode precludes the use of HDR mode.

You say you are thinking of the K1 for landscapes and are worried about shutter shock. What lenses do you anticipate using ? I have only seen shutter shock in the 1/60-1/200 range when using a long lens with the lens itself mounted on a tripod. In those circumstances I use LV ES to eliminate it completely. Shoot raw and you will be able to drag more DR out of your single image (not HDR) easily in PP

stevebrot · 06-18-2018, 11:21 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by DanLumadue

Could anyone test SteveinSLC's idea on using HDR in Live View mode, please? That sounds like it might be just the ticket if it works.

Yes, one can do HDR in Live View. The sequence goes like this:

Shutter closes
First, second, and third exposures in quick succession
Shutter opens
HDR processing

If 2s delay is used:

Shutter closes
2s countdown
First, second, and third exposures in quick succession
Shutter opens
HDR processing

With optical view:

Mirror up
First, second, and third exposures in quick succession
HDR processing
Mirror down

Optical view with 2s delay:

Mirror up
2s delay
First, second, and third exposures in quick succession
HDR processing
Mirror down

Steve

DanLumadue · 06-19-2018, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

All times activation of SR efficiently reduce the effect of mirror and shutter induced vibrations. SR On is now my default setting on the K1 and I am very happy with the results. And, permanent activation of SR combined with setting slow option on ISO deliver the best images I have seen. Of course, making full use of SR is limited to scene without moving elements.

Thank you for testing that for me, and I also like the SR in camera. It's good to know that it compensates for any movement caused by the mirror movement!

---------- Post added 06-19-18 at 02:14 PM ----------

Originally posted by pschlute

With K1 (and I presume the MkII version) you can use HDR in LV. However the shutter is still used to capture the pictures. In certain circumstances you may still see shutter shock. Using the Electronic Shutter in LV mode precludes the use of HDR mode.

You say you are thinking of the K1 for landscapes and are worried about shutter shock. What lenses do you anticipate using ? I have only seen shutter shock in the 1/60-1/200 range when using a long lens with the lens itself mounted on a tripod. In those circumstances I use LV ES to eliminate it completely. Shoot raw and you will be able to drag more DR out of your single image (not HDR) easily in PP

I was planning to use the FA L 28-105mm F3.5/5.6 ED Lens on the shorter end of the range, so it looks like that won't be a problem. I agree on raw - that's what I like to use, and I'm optimistic about the DR of the K-1 from everything I've seen. Thank you!

---------- Post added 06-19-18 at 02:16 PM ----------

Originally posted by stevebrot

Yes, in one can do HDR in Live View. The sequence goes like this:...

Thank you, Steve, this was extremely helpful to me! I appreciate it. I like that the mirror goes up and THEN the 2 second delay happens before the sequence continues... perfect! Thank you so much!

---------- Post added 06-19-18 at 02:18 PM ----------

Thank you all for your rapid responses and helpful information! I appreciate it and look forward to jumping in with the K1 mii soon!

06-18-2018, 04:21 PM	#1
DanLumadue New Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5	MLU in HDR mode? Hello. I'd be grateful if anyone could answer the following: Is it possible to enable Mirror Lock Up and use the timer (either 2 or 12 seconds) when the K1 mii is in HDR mode? I would like to use it to shoot landscapes but am concerned about mirror slap causing vibrations as the shutter opens and the sequential HDR captures are made in any of the HDR modes. I know you can use MLU in other modes, and I know you can use it in HDR when using the shutter or remote, but I would like to use it with the timer to avoid having to push the shutter (thus causing camera shake), or using a remote from the front of the camera and risk getting in the shot. I also know you can use it on bracketed shots and make your own HDR in PP, but I would really like to use the HDR mode, especially since you can later separate the raw shots in the software if desired. So - if someone could even run a test with their K1 mii (I haven't bought one yet as this is a big question for me) and let me know if, when in say HDR2 mode, and using the timer, if the mirror flips up (which I'm assuming would block the view through the viewfinder, so you could tell) before the shutter fires. If so, how long before the shutter fires does that mirror go up when using the 2 or 12 second timer. Thanks so much!!!

06-18-2018, 06:06 PM - 1 Like	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	You cannot use MLU in HDR mode since the shots are taken in sequence, but if you are concerned about optimizing image quality you should just bracket normally, or use pixel shift. The in-camera HDR mode is more of a quick and dirty solution, though it does try to align the frames for you. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

06-18-2018, 10:28 PM - 1 Like	#13
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	Originally posted by DanLumadue Could anyone test SteveinSLC's idea on using HDR in Live View mode, please? That sounds like it might be just the ticket if it works. With K1 (and I presume the MkII version) you can use HDR in LV. However the shutter is still used to capture the pictures. In certain circumstances you may still see shutter shock. Using the Electronic Shutter in LV mode precludes the use of HDR mode. You say you are thinking of the K1 for landscapes and are worried about shutter shock. What lenses do you anticipate using ? I have only seen shutter shock in the 1/60-1/200 range when using a long lens with the lens itself mounted on a tripod. In those circumstances I use LV ES to eliminate it completely. Shoot raw and you will be able to drag more DR out of your single image (not HDR) easily in PP Last edited by pschlute; 06-18-2018 at 10:48 PM.

06-18-2018, 11:21 PM - 2 Likes	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by DanLumadue Could anyone test SteveinSLC's idea on using HDR in Live View mode, please? That sounds like it might be just the ticket if it works. Yes, one can do HDR in Live View. The sequence goes like this: Shutter closes First, second, and third exposures in quick succession Shutter opens HDR processing If 2s delay is used: Shutter closes 2s countdown First, second, and third exposures in quick succession Shutter opens HDR processing With optical view: Mirror up First, second, and third exposures in quick succession HDR processing Mirror down Optical view with 2s delay: Mirror up 2s delay First, second, and third exposures in quick succession HDR processing Mirror down Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 06-19-2018 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Where did that word come from from...

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06-18-2018, 05:40 PM - 1 Like	#2
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	I dont have the K1II and i have not used the k1 much in HDR mode. The DR of the K1 raw files are very easily processed to extend DR in a single capture. A quick reading of the manual suggests you cannot use it with MLU, nor can you use it with LV Electronic shutter. You can however use the remote to trigger the camera from behind as well as in front. Also from my experience mirror slap is not an issue with the K1, but shutter shock can be an isuue when used with a long (tripod mounted) lens in the 1/60-1/180 range. I have not seen it when the camera is mounted on a tripod (as opposed to the lens being mounted) Hopefully someone with a Mark II can answer more fully.

06-18-2018, 06:09 PM - 1 Like	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Welcome to the Pentax Forums! The short answer is that HDR mode is not compatible with MLU. Originally posted by DanLumadue I know you can use MLU in other modes, and I know you can use it in HDR when using the shutter or remote Unless something has changed, this is not true (see p108 in the K-1II user guide). Originally posted by DanLumadue I also know you can use it on bracketed shots and make your own HDR in PP Unfortunately, this also is not possible. Drive modes are mutually exclusive and both bracketing and MLU are drive modes. Electronic shutter with MLU of a series using manual bracketing and wireless tether might work. Steve (...not a K-1/K-1II owner, but the conventions for HDR, bracketing and MLU on my K-3 are consistent with the K-1 series...) Last edited by stevebrot; 06-18-2018 at 06:15 PM.

06-18-2018, 06:14 PM - 1 Like	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Adam You cannot use MLU in HDR mode since the shots are taken in sequence Thank you Adam. I was having difficulty figuring a way to explain "why not". Yes, HDR shots are done in sequence (one shutter push for all three exposures) and this does not work because MLU works by doing two shutter presses per exposure, the first to flip the mirror up and the second to make the exposure and let the mirror drop. I know, one would expect that choosing the option would flip the mirror up and leave it up until turned off, but that is not how it works. One would also think that both HDR and burst bracketing would be done on a single mirror cycle, but that also is not the case. Steve

06-18-2018, 06:39 PM	#6
DanLumadue New Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5 Original Poster	Thank you all for your replies. I wonder if Pentax would ever do a firmware update that would allow the mirror-up and then the multiple HDR shots before cycling the mirror down. Meanwhile, I've been looking at a few of the HDR shots posted on the forum and some seem a little soft, so the traditional bracketing route may be best for now. Thanks for the input and ideas - much appreciated!

06-18-2018, 06:53 PM	#7
DanLumadue New Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5 Original Poster	Originally posted by pschlute I dont have the K1II and i have not used the k1 much in HDR mode. The DR of the K1 raw files are very easily processed to extend DR in a single capture. A quick reading of the manual suggests you cannot use it with MLU, nor can you use it with LV Electronic shutter. You can however use the remote to trigger the camera from behind as well as in front. Also from my experience mirror slap is not an issue with the K1, but shutter shock can be an isuue when used with a long (tripod mounted) lens in the 1/60-1/180 range. I have not seen it when the camera is mounted on a tripod (as opposed to the lens being mounted) Hopefully someone with a Mark II can answer more fully. PSCHLUTE, it is helpful to know the remote triggers from behind as well. Thank you!

06-18-2018, 07:44 PM - 1 Like	#8
SteveinSLC Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 568	Pretty sure you can use HDR in Live View mode though, which locks the mirror up by default(at least on the K-1).

06-18-2018, 07:56 PM - 1 Like	#9
pentaxfall Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Bangalore, India Posts: 581	MLU with Timer is not possible. I like that option but it is not there.

06-18-2018, 07:58 PM	#10
DanLumadue New Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5 Original Poster	Originally posted by SteveinSLC Pretty sure you can use HDR in Live View mode though, which locks the mirror up by default(at least on the K-1). Could anyone test SteveinSLC's idea on using HDR in Live View mode, please? That sounds like it might be just the ticket if it works.

06-18-2018, 10:09 PM - 1 Like	#11
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	In live view mode, the mirror does stay up when capturing an HDR sequence, but the mechanical shutter is still opening and closing three times.

06-18-2018, 10:14 PM - 1 Like	#12
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	All times activation of SR efficiently reduce the effect of mirror and shutter induced vibrations. SR On is now my default setting on the K1 and I am very happy with the results. And, permanent activation of SR combined with setting slow option on ISO deliver the best images I have seen. Of course, making full use of SR is limited to scene without moving elements.

06-19-2018, 02:10 PM	#15
DanLumadue New Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5 Original Poster	Originally posted by biz-engineer All times activation of SR efficiently reduce the effect of mirror and shutter induced vibrations. SR On is now my default setting on the K1 and I am very happy with the results. And, permanent activation of SR combined with setting slow option on ISO deliver the best images I have seen. Of course, making full use of SR is limited to scene without moving elements. Thank you for testing that for me, and I also like the SR in camera. It's good to know that it compensates for any movement caused by the mirror movement! ---------- Post added 06-19-18 at 02:14 PM ---------- Originally posted by pschlute With K1 (and I presume the MkII version) you can use HDR in LV. However the shutter is still used to capture the pictures. In certain circumstances you may still see shutter shock. Using the Electronic Shutter in LV mode precludes the use of HDR mode. You say you are thinking of the K1 for landscapes and are worried about shutter shock. What lenses do you anticipate using ? I have only seen shutter shock in the 1/60-1/200 range when using a long lens with the lens itself mounted on a tripod. In those circumstances I use LV ES to eliminate it completely. Shoot raw and you will be able to drag more DR out of your single image (not HDR) easily in PP I was planning to use the FA L 28-105mm F3.5/5.6 ED Lens on the shorter end of the range, so it looks like that won't be a problem. I agree on raw - that's what I like to use, and I'm optimistic about the DR of the K-1 from everything I've seen. Thank you! ---------- Post added 06-19-18 at 02:16 PM ---------- Originally posted by stevebrot Yes, in one can do HDR in Live View. The sequence goes like this:... Thank you, Steve, this was extremely helpful to me! I appreciate it. I like that the mirror goes up and THEN the 2 second delay happens before the sequence continues... perfect! Thank you so much! ---------- Post added 06-19-18 at 02:18 PM ---------- Thank you all for your rapid responses and helpful information! I appreciate it and look forward to jumping in with the K1 mii soon!