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08-09-2018, 01:30 PM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by rodaballo Quote
Please, could you develop this issue? Was your K-1 giving shutter shock with lenses other than the DFA 28-105? Has shutter shock disappeared on K-1 II under the same lens and conditions? This is strange, as apparently the shutter mechanism remains unchanged between K-1 and K-1 II. Would this mean that shutter shock can be avoided by software?
My K1 with the D FA 28-105 lens on it has the shutter shock . I would get around it using the electronic shutter or watching my shutter speed. One of the first things I did when I got my K1-II was try the same setup to see how bad it was. It is a non issue on mine. I don't call this a definitive statement as there are people with K1's who do not experience it either. But at least now I see a sample size of two from Andrea K.


Once I realized what was happening on my K1. I just took steps to avoid it no matter what lens was mounted on it so I can't really tell what other lenses I own may experience the issue. It is a harmonics issue, so changing the weight of the setup will have some effect on it. It just seems that the K1/D FA28-105 combination hits the sweet spot best. People with the D FA 24 -70 F2.8 lens mounted on the camera have reported fewer issues with it.


On my trip to Yellowstone this past May, I used both my K1 and my K1-II. The weather was heavily overcast and wet most of the time I was there. While reviewing some shots of antelope made at ISO 640 I did notice some loss of detail in their fur. I figured that it was made with my K1-II after all the discussion of loss of detail at ISO's over 500 or so. However the images came from my K1. Ooops!


I am happy with both cameras. All cameras have their quirks. It is up to the photographer to figure that out and how to get the best images out of the tools that he or she is using. I will not be upgrading my K1. That money was spent on the trip to Yellowstone and the upgrade is a limited time offer. I am already saving up for another go at Yellowstone next May.

08-09-2018, 02:32 PM   #32
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Thanks for your input, gaweidert. Are you reporting the issue at Yellowstone with the 28-105 or was it with with any other lens?
08-10-2018, 12:34 AM   #33
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Oh the shutter shock is there with MK2. Just use shutter speed between 0.5s and 1/20sec, put camera to multiexposure average mode and shoot the stack. Output is more or less messed up. Much less of an issue towards faster speeds or longer exposures.
08-10-2018, 02:49 AM - 2 Likes   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Oh the shutter shock is there with MK2. Just use shutter speed between 0.5s and 1/20sec, put camera to multiexposure average mode and shoot the stack. Output is more or less messed up. Much less of an issue towards faster speeds or longer exposures.
Multiexposure, then tripod, then mirror lock up. I think that the problem isn't the camera.

08-10-2018, 09:10 AM   #35
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Yes it is. If I hold the lens (Zeiss 50MP) tightly by hand and fire away with MLU I can still feel the shutter resonating thru the lens body (or tripod legs). Multiexposures cannot be used with electronic shutter (plain dumb feature) and firing away 256x exposures with MLU is even more hassle should it cure something (it does NOT). I have workaround for this - ND filter to make exposures long enough but not too long. Combining few second exposures with multiexposure averaging is superb technique for smooth IQ.
08-10-2018, 03:49 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Yes it is. If I hold the lens (Zeiss 50MP) tightly by hand and fire away with MLU I can still feel the shutter resonating thru the lens body (or tripod legs). Multiexposures cannot be used with electronic shutter (plain dumb feature) and firing away 256x exposures with MLU is even more hassle should it cure something (it does NOT). I have workaround for this - ND filter to make exposures long enough but not too long. Combining few second exposures with multiexposure averaging is superb technique for smooth IQ.
Have you noticed different problematic shutter speed ranges for different lenses, or do you avoid the same range of speeds for all your lenses?
08-10-2018, 05:45 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by rodaballo Quote
Thanks for your input, gaweidert. Are you reporting the issue at Yellowstone with the 28-105 or was it with with any other lens?
Other than the D FA 150-450 lens it was the only one I used. Once I knew about the problem I simply avoided a certain shutter range.
08-21-2018, 11:44 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
My K1 with the D FA 28-105 lens on it has the shutter shock . I would get around it using the electronic shutter or watching my shutter speed. One of the first things I did when I got my K1-II was try the same setup to see how bad it was. It is a non issue on mine. I don't call this a definitive statement as there are people with K1's who do not experience it either. But at least now I see a sample size of two from Andrea K.


Once I realized what was happening on my K1. I just took steps to avoid it no matter what lens was mounted on it so I can't really tell what other lenses I own may experience the issue. It is a harmonics issue, so changing the weight of the setup will have some effect on it. It just seems that the K1/D FA28-105 combination hits the sweet spot best. People with the D FA 24 -70 F2.8 lens mounted on the camera have reported fewer issues with it.


On my trip to Yellowstone this past May, I used both my K1 and my K1-II. The weather was heavily overcast and wet most of the time I was there. While reviewing some shots of antelope made at ISO 640 I did notice some loss of detail in their fur. I figured that it was made with my K1-II after all the discussion of loss of detail at ISO's over 500 or so. However the images came from my K1. Ooops!


I am happy with both cameras. All cameras have their quirks. It is up to the photographer to figure that out and how to get the best images out of the tools that he or she is using. I will not be upgrading my K1. That money was spent on the trip to Yellowstone and the upgrade is a limited time offer. I am already saving up for another go at Yellowstone next May.
Have you noticed better color rendition on your K1-II over the K1? Some assert this. Have you compared side by side images from both cameras and ensure that certain colors (red, blue, green...) look better or more accurate on the K1-II?

08-22-2018, 05:03 AM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
Have you noticed better color rendition on your K1-II over the K1? Some assert this. Have you compared side by side images from both cameras and ensure that certain colors (red, blue, green...) look better or more accurate on the K1-II?
I have not done any side by side comparisons for color. I really don't care if they look a bit different because all I have to do is move a slider on my screen to get any color I want, When using film you use a filter pack when printing the image to do the same thing, There is some variation between different batches of sensors and maybe even within the same batch of sensors. That is why the specification has a plus or minus range associated with it.


I spent most of my working career at Kodak concerned about color accuracy. Our color memory is very poor. (Of the 5 senses, smell is our most reliable and powerful memory.) When you look at a scene like the Grand Canyon, your first response is emotional. Fuji Velvia transparency film was the most popular film of it's type available for outdoor and nature photography because of it's WOW! factor. It had wildly inaccurate color rendition, but when you saw the shot you took at the Grand Canyon, you had that same WOW! moment.


There are so many factors involved in how we perceive color that any slight differences do not bother me. If you want to do a fun test. look at a white piece of paper or even a bed sheet. Look at it first with one eye and then the other. Does it look the same with each eye? For me, my right eye looks at the world with a slightly more magenta tone than my left eye, Which eye working correctly? Darned if I know.

Sorry for the long response, but since retirement I simply want to make pretty pictures. Since digital imaging makes it so much easier to correct for any perceived differences I just work with whatever I am given. In my opinion, the K1/K1-II is so good at what it does, that I no longer miss film. I do not plan on upgrading my K1 as I spent that money on the trip to Yellowstone. Starting to save up for another trip there next May.
08-23-2018, 12:48 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
I have not done any side by side comparisons for color. I really don't care if they look a bit different because all I have to do is move a slider on my screen to get any color I want, When using film you use a filter pack when printing the image to do the same thing, There is some variation between different batches of sensors and maybe even within the same batch of sensors. That is why the specification has a plus or minus range associated with it.


I spent most of my working career at Kodak concerned about color accuracy. Our color memory is very poor. (Of the 5 senses, smell is our most reliable and powerful memory.) When you look at a scene like the Grand Canyon, your first response is emotional. Fuji Velvia transparency film was the most popular film of it's type available for outdoor and nature photography because of it's WOW! factor. It had wildly inaccurate color rendition, but when you saw the shot you took at the Grand Canyon, you had that same WOW! moment.


There are so many factors involved in how we perceive color that any slight differences do not bother me. If you want to do a fun test. look at a white piece of paper or even a bed sheet. Look at it first with one eye and then the other. Does it look the same with each eye? For me, my right eye looks at the world with a slightly more magenta tone than my left eye, Which eye working correctly? Darned if I know.

Sorry for the long response, but since retirement I simply want to make pretty pictures. Since digital imaging makes it so much easier to correct for any perceived differences I just work with whatever I am given. In my opinion, the K1/K1-II is so good at what it does, that I no longer miss film. I do not plan on upgrading my K1 as I spent that money on the trip to Yellowstone. Starting to save up for another trip there next May.
You are right. And yes, I too see the world with very slight different tonality depending which eye I'm looking with.

Enjoy your next trip. I bet you will do!
08-25-2018, 02:20 PM   #41
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My K-1 has the very annoying shutter shock, so since learning from this forum that it wasn't user error, I have avoided a range of shutter speeds. For me, having that improved/fixed is enough for me to get the upgrade. I was also wondering about hand held pixel shift, 'cos sometimes I simply can't/don't want to set up a tripod.


Thanks Andrea for the user perspective - I am a hobbyist and pixel peeping/tech stuff isn't my thing, but your summary has answered many of my questions!
08-25-2018, 08:39 PM   #42
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Please, tell me, those of you are you who are finding shutter shock: do you report it with any lens or just with the DFA 28-105??
08-26-2018, 02:21 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by rodaballo Quote
Please, tell me, those of you are you who are finding shutter shock: do you report it with any lens or just with the DFA 28-105??
By "shutter shock" you mean slightly blurred images with lower speeds (1/125 and less)?

If so, I noticed slightly blurred images ("shutter/mirror shock"?) independently the lens I'm using (Zeiss Distagon 25/2.8, Zeiss Distagon 28/2, Zeiss Distagon 35/2, Pentax [Tamron] 24-70/2.8).

I was wondering why I do get less sharp images than my Nikon Coolpix A having 20 Mp less, for instance.

I guess the problem it's due to shutter shock, not the mirror, because shooting in Live View mode (mirror up) it happens the same thing: slightly blurred images with "Shake Reduction" off at lower speeds and sharp images with "Shake Reduction" on.

As I did never leave the "Shake Reduction" on, I started shooting with "Shake Reduction" always connected since few days ago and... Problem fixed! All images sharp even using low speeds. From now on I will always leave the SR "on". Anyways, it's certainly annoying that a high grade camera like this one suffers from this kind of problem.

Last edited by alvaro_garcia; 08-26-2018 at 03:25 AM.
08-26-2018, 05:11 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by alvaro_garcia Quote
\ Anyways, it's certainly annoying that a high grade camera like this one suffers from this kind of problem.
This is not just a Pentax problem.



D810 shutter shock workaround: Nikon FX SLR (DF, D1-D5, D600-D850) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
08-26-2018, 10:14 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
I guess so.

I prefer looking through a pentaprism viewfinder rather than an electronic one (DSLR vs mirrorless), however I recon that the future is for mirrorless cameras, compared to DSLRs they are:

- Much more efficient with the light.
- No vibrations that may affect the images.
- Much less problems with AF.
- Much more compact and lighter bodies.
- Presumably cheaper.
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