K1 Mode dial issue - Self serve and problem part identified

K-amps · 09-07-2018, 09:13 AM - **6 Likes**

Hi guys:

I got the dreaded mode dial issue on my K1. I am out of warranty and got my K1 from the pre-order batch from B&H around the May 2016 timeframe. I have over 12k actuations, so was luckier than other folks. Since I was out of warranty, Precision Camera said they would charge $358 to fix it.

I thought it was a bit stiff for a known issue that should have been a recall type scenario. And not gotten a favorable response from Pentax (they just referred me to Precision), I deliberated on what to do. On a couple of threads, someone said it might be a cold solder , or a bad ribbon connection... then doing some more googling, ran into a youtube video on how to replace the top cover of the K1. That got me thinking if I could repair this myself since it seemed something a handy person could do.

**********************************

I am here to share my experience. And provide some info on what is the issue (at least the issue that I had) . I cannot provide repair services or advice since this is a delicate piece of equipment. Please do not open your K1 unless you feel qualified to do so and assume the responsibility to do so.

*********************************

The broken part:

If you see the photo's, there is a black plastic dial that holds a metal prong (spring contact thingie) that contacts a pcb which governs the Camera mode (M, B, Av Tv etc). This piece sits directly under the Mode dial.

The metal contact piece is held on to the plastic dial by 4 tiny projections. These are less than half a millimeter each. These projections attach to 4 holes on the metal contact. What keeps the metal piece attached is that they melted 2 of the 4 prongs on to the metal piece. That melted portion breaks off over time and the metal pieces comes loose. When that happens, the tension of the spring is lost and it no longer contacts the dial mode pcb which being an open circuit defaults to M mode.

My first thought is, even if they wanted to attach a high tension part to the plastic piece, they should have melted all 4 prongs instead of just 2. But overall, a better design should have been thought of. The part looks very cheap and like a toy from Hong Kong from the 60's... (for those old enough to know the reference).

The Fix:

I am not sure I did a good job, but I just superglued the metal part to the plastic dial... hope it stays on, now that there is more adhesive area than 2 melted prongs, on the other hand, superglue is brittle. I cannot be sure this will hold on for long...

However it held through testing.

I closed up the part, reattached all screws and tested and it works fine.

I can choose all Modes correctly. looks like my K1 is working fine for now.

Hope this helps you guys.

Much thanks
Arif

PS: In the photo's I marked 2 prongs with an "X" these were the ones that were melted and broke off. The other 2 with check marks could be reused and melted to re-attach the metal prong again.

Last edited by K-amps; 09-07-2018 at 11:28 AM.

**jatrax** · 09-07-2018, 09:21 AM - **1 Like**

Thanks for the nice write up!

stevebrot · 09-07-2018, 10:33 AM - **1 Like**

Thanks for the excellent contribution!

Originally posted by K-amps

The part looks very cheap and like a toy from Hong Kong from the 60's... (for those old enough to know the reference).

It is sometimes best not to see the insides of our cameras. I saw a photo once of the inside of a Yashica TLR (don't remember which model) where a part was crafted from a portion of an Asahi beer can, label still visible.

I am curious about the design of the replacement part used for K-1 mode dial repairs.

Steve

victormeldrew · 09-07-2018, 11:00 AM - **1 Like**

Some 2-pack epoxy would do a more reliable job than superglue there. But well done getting it apart and fixed...that's a lot of money to save!

jack002 · 09-07-2018, 11:09 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by victormeldrew

Some 2-pack epoxy would do a more reliable job than superglue there. But well done getting it apart and fixed...that's a lot of money to save!

I thought that too. JB Weld has two types. One is slow and strong, one is fast and less strong. Can be trusted more than super glue.

Not a Number · 09-07-2018, 02:26 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

I am curious about the design of the replacement part used for K-1 mode dial repairs.

Odds are they either put a dab of hot glue over the other two pins or just made the pins longer so there is more material when melted down.

**UncleVanya** · 09-07-2018, 06:02 PM - **1 Like**

Epoxy does not bond to plastic well. Plastic bonds poorly to a lot of glues.

Not a Number · 09-07-2018, 07:46 PM - **2 Likes**

This stuff works rather well on plastic and metal:

PlasticWeld Syringe | J-B Weld

Quote:

PlasticWeld is a specially formulated two-part adhesive and epoxy filler system that provides for strong, lasting repairs. PlasticWeld will bond a variety of surfaces, such as metal, composites, fiberglass and others. PlasticWeld sets in 5 minutes at room temperature and is fully cured in 1 hour. Using a 1:1 mixing ratio, PlasticWeld combines to a tensile strength of 3200 PSI and cures to an off-white color.

Great For

Most Hard Plastics
ABS
Fiberglass
PVC
Glass
Vinyl
Most Composites

biz-engineer · 09-07-2018, 09:20 PM - **1 Like**

Thanks for sharing.

rawr · 09-07-2018, 10:38 PM - **1 Like**

Pity a plastic part worth 5c can disable a $2000 camera and require a $358 repair. Not good industrial design.

I wonder what type of plastic was used for the part? ABS? Nylon? If it's easily meltable, and so easily subject to wear, probably not ABS. Certainly looks 3D printable if need be, perhaps using tougher plastic.

Not a Number · 09-08-2018, 07:36 AM

It's probably the same design they've been using since the Z series film cameras. It was probably just a bad batch - either the plastic was defective or the tool that melts the post down was set incorrectly or the post was too short. A lot the DIY electronic and plastic model kits that I had in the 70s used battery contacts that you'd secure by melting a plastic post with a heated nail head, screwdriver or knife. If you didn't melt it down enough the contact would be loose and the post would get worn away or break. Melt it too much and there wouldn't be enough material so the melted "button" would break off. Almost all the battery operated plastic toys I grew up with used the same method.

Screws might be better but take more time to assemble. They can always work loose and potentially cause much other damage.

**jatrax** · 09-08-2018, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Screws might be better but take more time to assemble. They can always work loose

+1 The melted post attachment is well proven and has been used successfully for decades in situations where a screw might either work loose or where there is not enough room to use one of sufficient length. Like @Not a Number says: bad batch. They either under or over heated the connection posts.

09-07-2018, 09:13 AM - 6 Likes	#1
K-amps Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Fishers, IN Posts: 271	K1 Mode dial issue - Self serve and problem part identified Hi guys: I got the dreaded mode dial issue on my K1. I am out of warranty and got my K1 from the pre-order batch from B&H around the May 2016 timeframe. I have over 12k actuations, so was luckier than other folks. Since I was out of warranty, Precision Camera said they would charge $358 to fix it. I thought it was a bit stiff for a known issue that should have been a recall type scenario. And not gotten a favorable response from Pentax (they just referred me to Precision), I deliberated on what to do. On a couple of threads, someone said it might be a cold solder , or a bad ribbon connection... then doing some more googling, ran into a youtube video on how to replace the top cover of the K1. That got me thinking if I could repair this myself since it seemed something a handy person could do. ******************************** I am here to share my experience. And provide some info on what is the issue (at least the issue that I had) . I cannot provide repair services or advice since this is a delicate piece of equipment. Please do not open your K1 unless you feel qualified to do so and assume the responsibility to do so. ******************************* The broken part: If you see the photo's, there is a black plastic dial that holds a metal prong (spring contact thingie) that contacts a pcb which governs the Camera mode (M, B, Av Tv etc). This piece sits directly under the Mode dial. The metal contact piece is held on to the plastic dial by 4 tiny projections. These are less than half a millimeter each. These projections attach to 4 holes on the metal contact. What keeps the metal piece attached is that they melted 2 of the 4 prongs on to the metal piece. That melted portion breaks off over time and the metal pieces comes loose. When that happens, the tension of the spring is lost and it no longer contacts the dial mode pcb which being an open circuit defaults to M mode. My first thought is, even if they wanted to attach a high tension part to the plastic piece, they should have melted all 4 prongs instead of just 2. But overall, a better design should have been thought of. The part looks very cheap and like a toy from Hong Kong from the 60's... (for those old enough to know the reference). The Fix: I am not sure I did a good job, but I just superglued the metal part to the plastic dial... hope it stays on, now that there is more adhesive area than 2 melted prongs, on the other hand, superglue is brittle. I cannot be sure this will hold on for long... However it held through testing. I closed up the part, reattached all screws and tested and it works fine. I can choose all Modes correctly. looks like my K1 is working fine for now. Hope this helps you guys. Much thanks Arif PS: In the photo's I marked 2 prongs with an "X" these were the ones that were melted and broke off. The other 2 with check marks could be reused and melted to re-attach the metal prong again. Last edited by K-amps; 09-07-2018 at 11:28 AM.

09-07-2018, 07:46 PM - 2 Likes	#8
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	This stuff works rather well on plastic and metal: PlasticWeld Syringe \| J-B Weld Quote: PlasticWeld is a specially formulated two-part adhesive and epoxy filler system that provides for strong, lasting repairs. PlasticWeld will bond a variety of surfaces, such as metal, composites, fiberglass and others. PlasticWeld sets in 5 minutes at room temperature and is fully cured in 1 hour. Using a 1:1 mixing ratio, PlasticWeld combines to a tensile strength of 3200 PSI and cures to an off-white color. Great For Most Hard Plastics ABS Fiberglass PVC Glass Vinyl Most Composites

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09-07-2018, 09:21 AM - 1 Like	#2
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Thanks for the nice write up!

09-07-2018, 10:33 AM - 1 Like	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Thanks for the excellent contribution! Originally posted by K-amps The part looks very cheap and like a toy from Hong Kong from the 60's... (for those old enough to know the reference). It is sometimes best not to see the insides of our cameras. I saw a photo once of the inside of a Yashica TLR (don't remember which model) where a part was crafted from a portion of an Asahi beer can, label still visible. I am curious about the design of the replacement part used for K-1 mode dial repairs. Steve

09-07-2018, 11:00 AM - 1 Like	#4
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493	Some 2-pack epoxy would do a more reliable job than superglue there. But well done getting it apart and fixed...that's a lot of money to save!

09-07-2018, 11:09 AM - 1 Like	#5
jack002 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Missouri Photos: Albums Posts: 727	Originally posted by victormeldrew Some 2-pack epoxy would do a more reliable job than superglue there. But well done getting it apart and fixed...that's a lot of money to save! I thought that too. JB Weld has two types. One is slow and strong, one is fast and less strong. Can be trusted more than super glue.

09-07-2018, 02:26 PM - 1 Like	#6
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by stevebrot I am curious about the design of the replacement part used for K-1 mode dial repairs. Odds are they either put a dab of hot glue over the other two pins or just made the pins longer so there is more material when melted down.

09-07-2018, 06:02 PM - 1 Like	#7
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,460	Epoxy does not bond to plastic well. Plastic bonds poorly to a lot of glues.

09-07-2018, 09:20 PM - 1 Like	#9
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,247	Thanks for sharing.

09-07-2018, 10:38 PM - 1 Like	#10
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Pity a plastic part worth 5c can disable a $2000 camera and require a $358 repair. Not good industrial design. I wonder what type of plastic was used for the part? ABS? Nylon? If it's easily meltable, and so easily subject to wear, probably not ABS. Certainly looks 3D printable if need be, perhaps using tougher plastic.

09-08-2018, 07:36 AM	#11
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	It's probably the same design they've been using since the Z series film cameras. It was probably just a bad batch - either the plastic was defective or the tool that melts the post down was set incorrectly or the post was too short. A lot the DIY electronic and plastic model kits that I had in the 70s used battery contacts that you'd secure by melting a plastic post with a heated nail head, screwdriver or knife. If you didn't melt it down enough the contact would be loose and the post would get worn away or break. Melt it too much and there wouldn't be enough material so the melted "button" would break off. Almost all the battery operated plastic toys I grew up with used the same method. Screws might be better but take more time to assemble. They can always work loose and potentially cause much other damage.

09-08-2018, 08:11 AM	#12
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Not a Number Screws might be better but take more time to assemble. They can always work loose +1 The melted post attachment is well proven and has been used successfully for decades in situations where a screw might either work loose or where there is not enough room to use one of sufficient length. Like @Not a Number says: bad batch. They either under or over heated the connection posts.