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10-02-2018, 01:36 AM   #1
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Pentax K-1 II and Capture One

Hello everybody,

I have my K-1 II now almost 3 months. For the RAW development I use Capture One. What bothers me now is that I have not been able to portray
the images so brilliantly in Capture One as the K-1 shows them on their display. Also, I have to adjust every picture a lot, until I like it.
I have now photographed my first wedding from a friend of me and would like to deliver perfect pictures.

I found today an ICC profile (Capture One Pro 11 - PentaxForums.com) that I will test at evening.

What I'm actually interested in is how other K-1 owners solve this problem. I have not really found much here in this forum.


Best regards
Stefan

10-02-2018, 02:00 AM   #2
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Shoot RAW+, and edit the Raws to match the Jpeg output?

(I use LR, which has a number of camera colour profiles. I have no experience with Capture One.)
10-02-2018, 03:04 AM   #3
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Hi Stefan,

I solved the problem by making custom profiles for my K1IIs DNG files

DCamProf
Look for the "profiling for capture one" part. You can download the photographed charts on the imagingressource website. You have to find the right datasheet (colorvalues) for the chosen chart. It is often part of the argyll-package.
Pentax K-1 II Review - Samples

The testcharts from Dpreview might work as well.


It will take you an evening until you get your batch files right.

When importing your DNG-Files apply a picture style with the icc profile embeded.
10-02-2018, 07:10 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by crash82 Quote
Hello everybody,

I have my K-1 II now almost 3 months. For the RAW development I use Capture One. What bothers me now is that I have not been able to portray
the images so brilliantly in Capture One as the K-1 shows them on their display. Also, I have to adjust every picture a lot, until I like it.
I have now photographed my first wedding from a friend of me and would like to deliver perfect pictures.

I found today an ICC profile (Capture One Pro 11 - PentaxForums.com) that I will test at evening.

What I'm actually interested in is how other K-1 owners solve this problem. I have not really found much here in this forum.


Best regards
Stefan
Hi Stefan,

First, make sure your computer monitor is calibrated using something like the Spyder 5. That’s a must-do. No way around that first step.

Second, Capture One is a beast but once tamed produces some of the best colors and contrasts you will see anywhere. I always start with a Linear Reponse under the Base Characteristics tool. Yes, the image will look flat but that shows you the raw, RAW files you are working with. The K-1 has lots of latitude so the image will crisp up nicely.

From there, in general do this :

1) Adjust white balance
2) Adjust exposure
3) Add contrast
4) Season the saturation to taste
5) Adjust highlights and shadows
6) Add some Clarity and Structure (using Natural or Punch), 15 and 10 are good values
7) Add sharpening. C1 is pretty conservative with sharpening. Something like 200/1/1 is a good boost.

From there you tweak as necessary. Adjust your levels, play with the curve. Save some presets so you can apply them with one click.

It takes a lot of practice to not only master the software but image processing in general. After a couple thousand images you’ll know what the image needs. Then it’s a matter of understanding the mechanics of what you click on and where to get the effect.

Try watching some of the Youtube tutorials too. Even if you only absorb 20% of the material that’s still 20% more than you had before.

10-02-2018, 10:00 AM - 1 Like   #5
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Guess you're pretty set on working in C1 (very nice controls in there) - personally I've been very satisfied with the camera profiles (mainly the "Natural" one) in Camera Raw. It matches the jpegs nicely but softer (less contrast and sharpening) if my memory serves me right.
Wrestling a generically profiled raw file to imitate the jpeg rendering is just a pain. But we don't all shoot the same things so the experience may differ.
10-02-2018, 11:21 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fabian Quote
Guess you're pretty set on working in C1 (very nice controls in there) - personally I've been very satisfied with the camera profiles (mainly the "Natural" one) in Camera Raw. It matches the jpegs nicely but softer (less contrast and sharpening) if my memory serves me right.
Wrestling a generically profiled raw file to imitate the jpeg rendering is just a pain. But we don't all shoot the same things so the experience may differ.
Tweaking colors without a specified K1II-ICC Profile is not worth the hustle. The DNG with Custom Profiles via Camera Test websites is just acceptable when you batch-apply a picture style. BTW Capture Ones ICC-Profile varie a lot in quality. So a custom profile may sometimes be more satisfying then the supplied one.
10-03-2018, 07:22 AM   #7
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C1P comes with a lot of camera profiles that you just can select. It doesn‘t matter if they are made for other brands / cameras. Maybe you find one that delivers close to your imagination?! Just an idea.
10-03-2018, 03:10 PM   #8
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I tried C1 which yeah can create some good pictures, but the workflow was just too different from LR, so I switched back to LR where I feel I have more control. Simply due to knowing the software better. It's a shame C1 is so damn expensive.

10-04-2018, 02:46 AM   #9
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Hi folks,

I've tried to create some profiles with dcamprof and used the pictures from image-resource.com.
The results are not so good so far, but i would continue experimenting with dcamprof. Thanks for the tips btw.
Does anyone use the GUI "Lumariver Profile Designer"?

I've used Lightroom in the past, but now I switched to C1 for 3 months and want to test it.
I's a shame that C1 does not have a color profile for the Pentax K-1 II yet.

But neither with Lightroom nor with C1 I'm pretty good at developing pictues from RAW.
That's the best conclusion .
After long sessions on weekend, i created some nice pictures
(after watching thousends of youtube-videos ), but I'm not satisfied yet.
10-22-2018, 01:29 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by acoufap Quote
C1P comes with a lot of camera profiles that you just can select. It doesn‘t matter if they are made for other brands / cameras. Maybe you find one that delivers close to your imagination?!
+1

That's what I did. Phase One does not appear to go through a lot of effort to create Pentax camera profiles. Even when the K-1 II will have official support, I wouldn't expect anything impressive.

Hence, just browse through the existing profiles and choose one that gives you a good starting point for further tweaking.
10-23-2018, 05:24 AM   #11
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I've never used Capture 1, so I can't say much on that, but generally I think using some sort of a preset may very well work, but then your work will look very similar to others who use the same presets. IMO, develop your own look, create your own profile (if you want / need one) and tweak each file accordingly. People will want to hire you based on your unique look, and possibly not so much for a more generic look that is similar to others. Some food for thought for you. :-)
10-23-2018, 12:41 PM   #12
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For anyone wanting a dedicated K1mkII profile in CO1: raise a support case. Only if some people raise a support case, will they actually support the camera with a small brand like Pentax.

Chris
10-23-2018, 11:58 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
For anyone wanting a dedicated K1mkII profile in CO1: raise a support case.
Creating a support ticket is easy and I find the staff to be very responsive and helpful.

However, I wouldn't expect much from a dedicated K-1 II profile. I don't think the K-1 profile is very good and Phase One has shown in the past that they don't really care much about Pentax camera profiles with a number of egregious errors occurring. I feel the best way is to select one of the existing profiles (even if they are for different cameras) and make it the default. Alternatively, one can use the excellent colour editor of C1 to tweak the existing camera profile and then save it as an ICC camera profile.

I can wholeheartedly recommend C1 as a RAW editor and in my view it is superior to LR in any way I care, just the Pentax support isn't that hot.

If anyone creates a support ticket for a K-1 II camera profile, they should also ask for proper Pentax EXIF support. It would be very easy to get the correct lens information extracted by C1 but sadly they haven't attended to that issue despite its long history.

They have been really good, though, in addressing other issues and implemented a large number of suggestions for improvement I made, so overall I'm very satisfied with C1 and Phase One.
10-24-2018, 02:33 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Creating a support ticket is easy and I find the staff to be very responsive and helpful.

However, I wouldn't expect much from a dedicated K-1 II profile. I don't think the K-1 profile is very good and Phase One has shown in the past that they don't really care much about Pentax camera profiles with a number of egregious errors occurring. I feel the best way is to select one of the existing profiles (even if they are for different cameras) and make it the default.
This is however not a very reliable way to get good color out of CO1, because the profiles work in tandem with the assignment of white balance values in CO1 based on the RAW values. This can easily be checked by changing a model name in the metadata, and see that the exact same file has two very different white balance settings with different model names. So the color profile is only "correct" if it fits the camera model name and according white balance settings. I noticed this with Sony A7rII > Sony A7rIII, but also with Pentax K3 > Pentax K3II. Also, the input tone curves are custom to a camera model.

I wish it were as easy as simply choosing an input color profile, but this is not the case. The only way out, is to get Phase One to profile the camera.

B.t.w.: they did nót profile the K1, and neither the KP. They simply use the embedded DNG color profile, which gives a rather uninspiring output. The K3II has a proper profile though.


QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Alternatively, one can use the excellent colour editor of C1 to tweak the existing camera profile and then save it as an ICC camera profile.

I can wholeheartedly recommend C1 as a RAW editor and in my view it is superior to LR in any way I care, just the Pentax support isn't that hot.

If anyone creates a support ticket for a K-1 II camera profile, they should also ask for proper Pentax EXIF support. It would be very easy to get the correct lens information extracted by C1 but sadly they haven't attended to that issue despite its long history.

They have been really good, though, in addressing other issues and implemented a large number of suggestions for improvement I made, so overall I'm very satisfied with C1 and Phase One.
10-24-2018, 03:00 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
This is however not a very reliable way to get good color out of CO1, because the profiles work in tandem with the assignment of white balance values in CO1 based on the RAW values.
I always tweak WB values anyhow.
The colours using an incorrect profile look infinitely better than the original ones.

QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
I wish it were as easy as simply choosing an input color profile, but this is not the case.
I realise that I'm not getting strictly correct colours but then many manufacturers go for pleasing colours rather than technical correct colours anyhow.

I do know, though, that in particular skin looks infinitely better using a number of incorrect profiles compared to the standard Pentax one which often features weird shifts and has too much contrast between colours occurring in faces overall.

QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
B.t.w.: they did nót profile the K1, and neither the KP. They simply use the embedded DNG color profile, which gives a rather uninspiring output.
I know and wished it would be "uninspiring" rather than "often rather ugly".
I love my Pentax cameras but I don't like the embedded DNG colour profiles.

As I said before, I really like C1 and don't know any RAW converter that I'd prefer, but I'm disappointed that Phase One's promise to engineer a dedicated profile for each camera they support is essentially a lie.
"All cameras are individually optimized by a special/unique Phase One technology process."
Yeah, nah, not true, unfortunately.

Last edited by Class A; 10-24-2018 at 03:18 AM.
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