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10-18-2018, 06:40 AM   #31
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Is there a post-process way to manage reflections then? That's a main reason I carry (or wish I had carried) a CPL.

10-18-2018, 09:58 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcdoss Quote
Is there a post-process way to manage reflections then? That's a main reason I carry (or wish I had carried) a CPL.
Yes and no. I find the DXO PhotoLab Clearview setting to help but not as much as directly as a CPL. The clearview can often replicate some of the benefits of a CPL but at some cost to the image if you go too far.
10-23-2018, 09:14 AM   #33
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Use of filters at night using DSLR

I sure have enjoyed this discussion and have learned much. I must admit that at first I was convinced that I should not use any filters, which is still a viable option for many purposes, then I see the value of using filters under certain scenes and desired effects.


I would like to know if any of you use filters for night scenes? Would it be better to just use PP instead?

Also, would you use filters with artificial lighting present? Would it be better to just use PP instead?
10-23-2018, 06:35 PM - 3 Likes   #34
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Northrup often has pretty good advice. That particular video was disappointing. Yes, there are numerous times when no filter is superior to using one. The cases he made though didn't illustrate the uses of filters when they are most effective. It's as if the all the cases he made were to specifically sell that you shouldn't usually use one. (imagine that...)


A little knowledge about the physics of polarization can go a long way towards getting the best use of one.

- There is no direct substitute in post processing because our consumer cameras don't record raw polarization data, only illuminance.

- The strongest sky darkening always occurs when your shooting axis is at 90 degrees from the sun. (or whatever the illumination is if it's at night.) Shooting near 0 or 180 from the sun especially is often unproductive.. but not always because sometimes bounced light needs to be modified.

- Unless you're intentionally creating an uneven effect, don't exceed 45 or so degree angle of view as you will be unable uniformly apply to all areas in frame.
- Particulate haze and smoke can respond to polarizers in some circumstances, but it depends on the size of the particulates.

- Glare reduction and sky darkening are not the only uses of a polarizer. Tony fails to mention that a polarizer can also positively accentuate reflections and illumination when desired for creative use. - Including eyes.

- Some materials (pearlescents, fine grained sparkles) can respond superbly to polarizers because the nature of the shimmer is from reflecting light from many angles. You can shape the nature of the glimmer.
- I've used DXO Clearview a quite lot, It can be useful, but lacks the nuance possible with a polarizer. I have sometimes use both in the same image because they accomplish things differently.

- Utterly indispensable when you want to blacken a lit LCD screen near your subject. Has saved me from extensive post editing on several corporate gigs, not to mention easier metering.
- Nothing makes a rainbow pop like a polarizer because the internal reflections within the raindrops are different polarization than the surface reflections (but wide angle of view may be a limiting factor.)

10-24-2018, 04:50 AM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by wings Quote
I sure have enjoyed this discussion and have learned much. I must admit that at first I was convinced that I should not use any filters, which is still a viable option for many purposes, then I see the value of using filters under certain scenes and desired effects.


I would like to know if any of you use filters for night scenes? Would it be better to just use PP instead?

Also, would you use filters with artificial lighting present? Would it be better to just use PP instead?
I suspect that you could try some PP filters of night shots to get some ideas, but as in daylight shooting, they only way to get the right effect is to use a filter when taking the shot. I'd think a colored filter would have interesting effects against artificial lighting used at night.

In a location with a lot of light pollution/illumination at ground level you could try an inverted ND filter to reduce the lighted areas while talking shots of starry skies.

A CPL will reduce reflections from lights when shooting through windows at night, as it does in daylight.
10-24-2018, 05:54 AM - 1 Like   #36
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Check out these links - a lot of this has been covered, but I still think they are worth checking out. Good info and presentation:

How to Use a Polarizing Filter - Photography Life

Must-Have Filters for Landscape Photography - Photography Life

Lens Filters Explained
10-24-2018, 06:39 AM - 2 Likes   #37
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In a few weeks I'm heading off on the photographic trip of a lifetime. The only filters I'm taking are (expensive) high transmission circular polarisers for my DFA28-105 and DFA150-450.

For my purposes, ND, graduated ND and colour correction filters can all be simulated in PP or with interval shooting.
10-24-2018, 09:13 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
In a few weeks I'm heading off on the photographic trip of a lifetime. The only filters I'm taking are (expensive) high transmission circular polarisers for my DFA28-105 and DFA150-450.

For my purposes, ND, graduated ND and colour correction filters can all be simulated in PP or with interval shooting.
The Force is strong with this one

I look forward to seeing the results.

10-24-2018, 09:36 AM   #39
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I only use a filter when the filter has a photographic purpose such as enabling wider aperture or doing long daylight exposures (ND's in various strengths), overcoming contrast issues (graduated ND's) or removing glare or enhancing colors (CPL). I can't see any photographic purpose for any other filters so I do not own any.

I always use a lens hood, even at night to up contrast, minimize flare or light leakage and protect the lens from bumping into stuff. I've never, in 13 years of shooting DSLR's and hundreds of thousands of exposures damaged the front element of any of my lenses either by mechanical impact or careful lens cleaning. I'm on my fifth Pentax body and some lenses have been with me since my first Pentax K110D.

I've stopped reacting to people using UV or "protection" filters IRL just as I've stopped reacting to people who shoot with the lens hood reversed on the lens - I just can't take anything these people do serious.
10-24-2018, 10:49 AM - 2 Likes   #40
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I have used the Hoya Red Intensifier for astrophotograpy. It does help with sodium light pollution.
10-25-2018, 10:54 AM   #41
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RAW mode and polarizing filter

QuoteOriginally posted by jbondo Quote
Northrup often has pretty good advice. That particular video was disappointing. Yes, there are numerous times when no filter is superior to using one. The cases he made though didn't illustrate the uses of filters when they are most effective. It's as if the all the cases he made were to specifically sell that you shouldn't usually use one. (imagine that...)


A little knowledge about the physics of polarization can go a long way towards getting the best use of one.

- There is no direct substitute in post processing because our consumer cameras don't record raw polarization data, only illuminance.
All of your comments were very interesting and insightful, but I especially noticed the first one.

I thought that when a scene is shot in RAW mode that it captures the complete essence or range of illumination and color, limited only by the quality of the lens and sensor and also the camera settings aperture, speed etc. So if the same scene is photographed with a polarizing filter in RAW mode then it too will capture the full range of illumination and color, except that which the PF removes or filters out depending upon the design which I assume would reveal an aspect of the scene that would not normally be seen or am I way off on this? I guess that I was thinking that the data recorded in RAW would encompass the full range of illumination and color so it would only be a matter of subtracting what the PF had filtered out. It would be interesting to see photos of scene RAW, PF RAW and PP RAW.
10-25-2018, 01:39 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by wings Quote
All of your comments were very interesting and insightful, but I especially noticed the first one.

I thought that when a scene is shot in RAW mode that it captures the complete essence or range of illumination and color, limited only by the quality of the lens and sensor and also the camera settings aperture, speed etc. So if the same scene is photographed with a polarizing filter in RAW mode then it too will capture the full range of illumination and color, except that which the PF removes or filters out depending upon the design which I assume would reveal an aspect of the scene that would not normally be seen or am I way off on this? I guess that I was thinking that the data recorded in RAW would encompass the full range of illumination and color so it would only be a matter of subtracting what the PF had filtered out. It would be interesting to see photos of scene RAW, PF RAW and PP RAW.
Let's talk about RAW... Sensor | Color Filter Array (CFA) | Light < --------

Each sensor dot can only detect light of the color that is passed to it and only the intensity of that light. It doesn't record other properties such as the polarization of the light. (Polarization being due to the physical orientation in space of the wave). Thus there are two properties at least that may not be recorded by a given pixel. One is the intensity (if the light is green and the filter above that spot is red for example), the other is polarization. There may be other properties but for the moment that's sufficient to explain why you can post process polarization since you don't know the polarization of the light captured.
10-25-2018, 07:43 PM   #43
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Can't replace a polarizer in post. And nd filters are great, saves me stacking dozens of pictures in photoshop to achieve similar effect (its not that similar actually but close). I don't use any other filters personally, but I have a cpl i can use with all of my lenses, and its worth the investment for me.
10-26-2018, 10:23 AM - 1 Like   #44
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Good discussion - thanks. I'm refreshing my knowledge after a hiatus.


One point I did NOT see is that the OP was talking about film experience and filters and most pointed out the utility of polarizers (which I agree with) but NOT that the old PL filters are BAD on dSLRs and that it needs to be a Circular Polarizer (CPL) to not cause artifacts with the digital sensors.
10-26-2018, 01:49 PM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Good discussion - thanks. I'm refreshing my knowledge after a hiatus.


One point I did NOT see is that the OP was talking about film experience and filters and most pointed out the utility of polarizers (which I agree with) but NOT that the old PL filters are BAD on dSLRs and that it needs to be a Circular Polarizer (CPL) to not cause artifacts with the digital sensors.
It is my understanding that the problem with linear polarizers has nothing to do with the sensor - it is the focusing system and or metering system that gets in trouble with linear polarizers since they often rely on semi-silvered translucent mirrors that siphon off some light. I have found many many references to CDAF and DFD based mirrorless systems using Linear Polarizers without problems. I am not certain if PDAF on chip sensors are negatively impacted. In any case it is also true that even full blown Linear polarizers don't seem to interfere with most newer DSLR's - this may be a problem that was huge when first introduced but over time became a non-issue or one where conventional wisdom prevailed over actual fact. Theory says you could have a problem, but it is hard to find evidence of the problem in actual use.
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