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11-04-2018, 05:36 PM   #1
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Vibration reduction in mirror Lock-up vs. Live View on a K-1 Mark ii

I am new to the K-1 Mark ii. When one wants to maximally control camera vibrations upon exposure (on a tripod), how does one choose between the following: (A) the mirror Lock-up function with the electronic shutter, which will cause less vibration than the mechanical shutter, but Shake Reduction (SR) necessarily off, or (B) Live View with electronic shutter on but Shake Reduction off, or (C) Live View with the mechanical shutter and partial Shake Reduction (SR) on (“Auto SR Off” disabled in menu C3_21 for the infrared remote)? The manual p. 52 says one cannot have both the electronic shutter and Shake Reduction on.

The web page <http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-1-2/feature/03.html> and <http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/support/pdf/k-1-2.pdf> say that
"The new-generation SR II (Shake Reduction II) features a
five-axis mechanism to compensate for camera shake caused by
horizontal and vertical shift* (often generated in macro
photography) and camera shake caused by roll, which is difficult to
handle by lens-installed shake reduction mechanisms, in addition to
more common camera shake caused by pitch and yaw.

*During Live View shooting, this mechanism does not compensate
for camera shake caused by horizontally and vertical shift."

Option (C) has the disadvantage that only three of five Shake Reduction modes are available, but perhaps pitch and yaw SR correct somewhat for linear vertical and horizontal movement, assuming pitch is movement along a very short horizontal arc of a circle, and yaw, a short vertical arc. Has this been your experience?

Option (B) has the disadvantage of no Shake Reduction. This would probably rule it out in a high wind but in still air perhaps the electronic shutter has enough less vibration than the mechanical shutter to more than compensate for no SR. Has anyone actually tested this? It also cannot be used with pixel-shift exposure (manual p. 52). Option (B) has the advantage over (A) of one being able to see the vibrations damp down.

Finally, option (A) also has the disadvantage of turning Shake Reduction off (though the terse user manual gives no hint of this). Does anyone know of any other drawbacks in still air?

Given these trade-offs, which mode do you generally use and why?

Thanks, Jack

11-04-2018, 05:52 PM - 1 Like   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by straton Quote
I am new to the K-1 Mark ii. When one wants to maximally control camera vibrations upon exposure (on a tripod), how does one choose between the following: (A) the mirror Lock-up function with the electronic shutter, which will cause less vibration than the mechanical shutter, but Shake Reduction (SR) necessarily off, or (B) Live View with electronic shutter on but Shake Reduction off, or (C) Live View with the mechanical shutter and partial Shake Reduction (SR) on (“Auto SR Off” disabled in menu C3_21 for the infrared remote)? The manual p. 52 says one cannot have both the electronic shutter and Shake Reduction on.

The web page and say that
"The new-generation SR II (Shake Reduction II) features a
five-axis mechanism to compensate for camera shake caused by
horizontal and vertical shift* (often generated in macro
photography) and camera shake caused by roll, which is difficult to
handle by lens-installed shake reduction mechanisms, in addition to
more common camera shake caused by pitch and yaw.

*During Live View shooting, this mechanism does not compensate
for camera shake caused by horizontally and vertical shift."

Option (C) has the disadvantage that only three of five Shake Reduction modes are available, but perhaps pitch and yaw SR correct somewhat for linear vertical and horizontal movement, assuming pitch is movement along a very short horizontal arc of a circle, and yaw, a short vertical arc. Has this been your experience?

Option (B) has the disadvantage of no Shake Reduction. This would probably rule it out in a high wind but in still air perhaps the electronic shutter has enough less vibration than the mechanical shutter to more than compensate for no SR. Has anyone actually tested this? It also cannot be used with pixel-shift exposure (manual p. 52). Option (B) has the advantage over (A) of one being able to see the vibrations damp down.

Finally, option (A) also has the disadvantage of turning Shake Reduction off (though the terse user manual gives no hint of this). Does anyone know of any other drawbacks in still air?

Given these trade-offs, which mode do you generally use and why?

Thanks, Jack
SR should always be off when on a tripod.

Using the electronic shutter will protect you against shutter vibrations in the 1/60s-1/180s range, give or take. Some cameras are affected worse than others by this.

Otherwise you're fine with using the regular shutter in either live view or viewfinder. The 2s timer takes care of mirror vibrations in the latter case, and should therefore always be used.


TLDR, the sturdiness of the tripod itself, and the use of a remote, is the most important. Using the 2s self timer as a go-to will deliver good results from the camera. You usually don't need to worry about any other settings.

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11-04-2018, 05:58 PM   #3
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You can use the electronic shutter in LV if you wish. That eliminates shutter shock, though it also turns off SR and may give you a rolling shutter effect for a fast moving subject.
11-04-2018, 06:37 PM - 5 Likes   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Using the 2s self timer as a go-to will deliver good results from the camera.
I will point out that with longer lenses the 2s MLU timer will not be long enough to allow for all vibrations to dissipate, so using the alternate two press MLU mode is more appropriate for telephoto lenses over 100mm

11-04-2018, 11:07 PM   #5
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From my experience with the K1 and long "footed" lenses on a tripod I found the following:

1. As Adam said, shutter shock only seen in the 1/60-1/180 range.

2. The shutter is the culprit, using MLU makes no difference if you use the above shutter speed range.

3. If you require 1/60-1/180 shutter range use LV with ES and shutter shock is eliminated.
11-05-2018, 04:43 AM   #6
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I've had no issue with shutter shock with long (heavy) lenses: the DFA* 70-200 and DFA 150-450. Their heft seems to stabilise the system. It's mostly the much lighter DFA 28-105 that is most vulnerable on my K1.
11-05-2018, 07:12 AM   #7
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My K-1 has shutter shock at least 1/15s - 1/160s and then start to become very minor at 1/200s - 1/250s. This is shame because it makes IBIS totally useless, if you want best sharpness. It might not matter that much with softer lens, but it would be a bit pointless to use DFA*50 lens and then have shutter shock softness.Pentax could at least do a firmware update which allows electronic shutter in optical viewfinder mode. There is another bizarre thing too because bracketing is a lot slower with electronic shutter, but pixel shift is still quick. At least allow us to have choices, if first curtain ES needs some kind of delay, but full electonic shutter does not.
11-05-2018, 09:00 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pikselisiirto Quote
My K-1 has shutter shock at least 1/15s - 1/160s and then start to become very minor at 1/200s - 1/250s. This is shame because it makes IBIS totally useless,
Now I have only seen shutter shock when using a tripod, and even then not with the DFA 24-70 or the DFA 50. Handheld, I have never seen it with any lens.

11-05-2018, 09:26 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pikselisiirto Quote
Pentax could at least do a firmware update which allows electronic shutter in optical viewfinder mode.
How might this work?


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11-05-2018, 10:02 AM   #10
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What I found was that when I first got my K1, I see little to no shutter shock in the images. Several hundred images later it started to creep in. I am not sure if anyone else has seen this . It maxes out with my D FA 28-105 lens. i wonder if this one one of the little tweaks that they do when you get you camera updated to the K1-II version. My K1-II seems very solid in this area and I am regretting not getting my K1 updated to the K-II version. It would have been interesting to see if shutter shock was eliminated by the upgrade.


For newbies, Shutter shock is common to other brand DSLR's and SLR's too. It is not a Pentax exclusive. With my K1 I simply work around it.
11-05-2018, 10:40 AM   #11
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I never heard of shutter shock before I came here. It would be very helpful to me if an example image could be posted please.
11-05-2018, 11:13 AM   #12
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Shutter shock is weird and not always predictable, because it seems to vary so much by user and lens/body combination. I was a doubter for a year or so with my Olympus EM1, which always seemed sharp. Then they issued a firmware fix that allowed 2nd curtain electronic shutter and all of a sudden my photos were even sharper, easily visible. With my K1 I mostly don't see it, but I know that doesn't mean it isn't there. For me, what I find is that the camera works best if allowed to "settle" into a scene for a half second or so. If I quickly move my K1 to my eye and snap a shot, it often comes out with what looks like serious shutter shock, probably because the SR hasn't functioned properly.
11-05-2018, 11:19 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
It maxes out with my D FA 28-105 lens
I don't own that lens and have seen great results with it from others. But it does appear as a culprit more so than any other lens when shutter shock is the topic. Yet some never experience it at all ?

---------- Post added 11-05-18 at 06:27 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by thepedant Quote
I never heard of shutter shock before I came here. It would be very helpful to me if an example image could be posted please.
Don't have an image to show you but here is a brief explanation.

The first shutter curtain is triggered and hits the buffers.....this creates a shock wave through the camera which in certain circumstances can cause the image to blur.

Above a certain shutter speed (1/180 ish) you wont see the effect, because the second curtain will have already closed before the resonance triggered can have an effect. Below a certain speed (1/60 ish) you wont see an effect because although the blur is there, the resonance is over before the majority of the exposure is captured.

Cameras with focal plane shutters have suffered from shutter shock from the day they were invented to this very day. All brands.

I notice it only on the K1 when using a long, footed lens on a tripod in the indicated shutter speed range. I have never seen it handheld although others have. The ES option in LV eliminates the problem

Last edited by pschlute; 11-05-2018 at 11:28 AM.
11-05-2018, 01:45 PM - 1 Like   #14
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When you view the movement of a camera mirror in slow motion you'll see why MLU is so important.



I will point out the Pentax K-1 has a better damped mirror mechanism than a Canon 5D. MLU is also very important for macrophotography especially at extremely high magnifications.

Last edited by Digitalis; 11-05-2018 at 01:52 PM.
11-06-2018, 08:03 AM   #15
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I have not experienced any so-called with the DFA 28-105, but I have experienced what I initially thought was shutter shock, and rather bad shutter shock at that, with lighter lenses such as as the F 17-28 and the FA 20-35 in the 1/60 to 1/125 range. Then I took some shots in the offending shutter speed range on a tripod using the two second timer, and the alleged shutter shock disappeared, which suggests it's shutter shock, but perhaps a mirror slap issue. Not sure if anyone else has experienced that, as shutter shock seems to be the far more prevalent phenomenon.
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