[stevebrot]

Can I ask... if the user chooses to shoot RAW only, and we know that in camera we can derive a Jpg of the shot with all the Jpg settings used at the time, can we do the same in 3rd party software such as LR?

Good question. There is a set of preview JPEGs embedded in the DNG RAW that are used by the rear LCD as well as the Adobe codec set.* Lightroom extracts them for use as its initial set of preview images during import. Rumor is that one of them is a full-resolution low compression version JPEG. I have been unable to extract that preview using the tools at my disposal (ExifTool and dcraw). Faststone might be a good option and might be worth playing with.


Steve

* The PEF has them too, though I have never attempted extraction from that source.

[biz-engineer]

so the buffer is getting throttled harder. Shooting RAW you always have the Jpg anyway and you place the buffer under less strain.

The buffer and image processor work harder but they also get more juice during the heavy-lifting , and I'm the guy who recharge their battery , so they should be grateful that someone employs them. A lot of image processors and buffers finish their lives on the dusty shelves of the used camera equipment for sale. So far, my image processor and buffer never complained about their fate even when I put them under pressure, coz I'm a good owner !

[BruceBanner]

Good question. There is a set of preview JPEGs embedded in the DNG RAW that are used by the rear LCD as well as the Adobe codec set.* Lightroom extracts them for use as its initial set of preview images during import. Rumor is that one of them is a full-resolution low compression version JPEG. I have been unable to extract that preview using the tools at my disposal (ExifTool and dcraw). Faststone might be a good option and might be worth playing with.


Steve

* The PEF has them too, though I have never attempted extraction from that source.

I did a quick test with FS Image Viewer, I took a RAW DNG from a RAW+ shot and saved as Jpg and it kinda worked (applied the Jpg Preview settings) but the file was only 3.97mb. If I look at it's Jpg counterpart on the SD Card (I took the shot RAW+) the jpg is actually 20mb+

The buffer and image processor work harder but they also get more juice during the heavy-lifting , and I'm the guy who recharge their battery , so they should be grateful that someone employs them. A lot of image processors and buffers finish their lives on the dusty shelves of the used camera equipment for sale. So far, my image processor and buffer never complained about their fate even when I put them under pressure, coz I'm a good owner !

Not sure I follow this. I'm not concerned with battery life, I'm concerned purely with the ability to toggle in and out of RAW>Jpg for the sake of improving the buffer limit. Try taking a brenizer portrait in RAW, 20-30 shots taken in quick succession and you'll say hello to the buffer lol. Of course it need not be brenizer, could be action/sport where Jpgs carry a significant advantage from burst shots etc.
I'm a good owner too...

[stevebrot]

I'm concerned purely with the ability to toggle in and out of RAW>Jpg for the sake of improving the buffer limit.

You can program the Fx button to do RAW/RAW+ ---> JPEG and forego RAW on SD1/JPEG on SD2.

Alternatively, you can move to a different brand with either greater buffer depth and/or support for the feature that does not work on Pentax...D810?


Steve

[BruceBanner]

You can program the Fx button to do RAW/RAW+ ---> JPEG and forego RAW on SD1/JPEG on SD2.

Alternatively, you can move to a different brand with either greater buffer depth and/or support for the feature that does not work on Pentax...D810?


Steve

I wouldn't even say the feature doesn't work on Pentax per se, it's just not working the way I'd like it to, and it's unfair for developers to have the foresight to include all the little tweaks and stuff to make everyone in the market happy.
I sometimes think people misunderstand me here. I'm a huge Pentax fan, I haven't even shot another brand. The point of this thread was to query whether I had discovered a bug (which I have not) and/or to also assist with my education in how something works (success!). I have been doing that for the past 2yrs of hanging around these forums which has catapulted my learning and I hope been reflected in my work. This forum is great, the help it has given me priceless. Before I wrote this thread I was under the impression RAW+ was writing a shot to SD1 as RAW and SD2 as Jpg. I now know differently! I never knew we could get the camera to actually write a RAW and Jpg to the same SD card, that's cool!

I'm 40, I've been around the block a few times with gadgets and have learned a thing or two. Sometimes the manuals aren't descriptive enough, sometimes you have to just have a 'play' with something to see what it really can and cannot do.
Before I got into photography I was a reviewer of mp3 players or DAPs (Digital Audio Players). I used to write reviews on some players that often would receive over 50,000-80,000 hits! (back when this was a thing, before the smartphone really took off to being the main music player for the masses). Cowon (an mp3 player manufacturer) was notorious for producing bad manuals, only once you had the player in your hand could you really actually see what could and could not be done. A lot of these manufacturers seemed to miss out on some very basic features for a dedicated music player, as if there was no R&D department at all, like no one actually tested the player 'in the field'. Some were just tragically buggy.
I can't help feel as though in some ways cameras can be a bit like that. I learned that with music players the way in which people consumed music varied enormously. Some were 'album people' and liked to listen to an album all the way through, some liked to 'Shuffle All', and some liked to add a new album and mix it with stuff they were already familiar with (so playlist building support both on and off the player) etc. I think cameras can be a lot like this, yes the end result is we all take a picture, but how we end up at that place can vary a lot.

Anyway...

It appears in this regard that the concept of shooting RAW primarily, writing to two cards at once (as a safety precaution), but then to toggle out of that scenario and into Jpg only (for those more hectic shooting conditions and therefore possibly also write just to one card for optimum write speed times) just doesn't seem to have been implemented very well. Some (like me) might find;

a) it takes too long to press the Fx1 button to toggle a File Format change and also hit the Info button to change the memory card option mode, a User Mode toggle is probably quicker?
b) the changes to the memory card option are fixed and the user will need to always remember to change that back.


I'm left with a couple of options. I could;

a) Shoot RAW+ and write a DNG and Jpg to SD 1 but not to SD 2, i.e. Sequential Mode (because I think in day to day shooting you might start to feel the buffer pinch quite easily if every shot you fire is being written 4x). Then use Fx1 to toggle to Jpg only (and thus capitalise on maximum Jpg burst/buffer headroom). However I'm still not convinced I need the Jpg along with the DNG in every shot (ie RAW+), so I could perhaps just go RAW > Jpg (to the one sd card). The risk of this is only writing data to one card, for professional jobs I'd feel a little uneasy about this.

b) Shoot RAW to SD 1 and SD 2 (Save to Both), and use Fx1 to toggle me to Jpg which would write a Jpg to both memory cards, this might give me less buffering headroom but at least with a power down or mode dial change (and come back to that mode again) it will reset me back to my preferred Image Capture Setting (RAW in this case) and not leave me on Jpg should I have forgotten to toggle back. In the real world I might not feel the pinch of writing Jpg to both cards, only testing and experiences will tell.

Having said all that, how I'm actually seeing my photography progression unravel is that in the near future I might start shooting Jpg the majority of the time and only using RAW for only those instances I feel it's really required. In this regard the One Push File Format I think is more ideally suited, that 'Cancel after 1 shot' option I think is a nod to this kinda thinking, that you have assessed the shooting scenario and feel a RAW is safer as you might need more dynamic recovery (such as a landscape shot etc).

I just don't think I like the idea of toggling memory card options, I think I'd get myself in trouble doing that.

[stevebrot]

The point of this thread was to query whether I had discovered a bug (which I have not) and/or to also assist with my education in how something works (success!). I have been doing that for the past 2yrs of hanging around these forums which has catapulted my learning and I hope been reflected in my work.

I have long known that your questions were to tap into and plumb the group's corporate expertise with the product and photography in general. You are doing some amazing work, though it is quite possible you might have figured all the crazy stuff out by doing what we have been doing...simply playing with the tools and applying what they do to the idea that we capture light. I usually come into your questions cold except for a small bit of domain expertise and figure it out pretty much as I type.

I'm 40, I've been around the block a few times with gadgets and have learned a thing or two. Sometimes the manuals aren't descriptive enough, sometimes you have to just have a 'play' with something to see what it really can and cannot do.

Yep...I am nearly 64 years old and for the last 25 years have worked in software development, a craft I taught myself, from scratch. Again, that is a realm where the manuals are often incomplete and details are frequently left out of published examples and where fate favors those who see potential beyond the mechanism and where intuitive bent is one's greatest asset.

FWIW, I use "Cancel after 1 shot" with the toggle to RAW+ option and am configured as sequential write, RAW only. Such reflects a partial facet of how I draw with light.


Steve

[BruceBanner]

I have long known that your questions were to tap into and plumb the group's corporate expertise with the product and photography in general. You are doing some amazing work, though it is quite possible you might have figured all the crazy stuff out by doing what we have been doing...simply playing with the tools and applying what they do to the idea that we capture light. I usually come into your questions cold except for a small bit of domain expertise and figure it out pretty much as I type.



Yep...I am nearly 64 years old and for the last 25 years have worked in software development, a craft I taught myself, from scratch. Again, that is a realm where the manuals are often incomplete and details are frequently left out of published examples and where fate favors those who see potential beyond the mechanism and where intuitive bent is one's greatest asset.

FWIW, I use "Cancel after 1 shot" with the toggle to RAW+ option and am configured as sequential write, RAW only. Such reflects a partial facet of how I draw with light.


Steve

I learn best through discussions. A certain amount of self tinkering is done but then that leads me to questions to answers I don't often have, or gets me to questions I didn't even know I needed to ask!

Currently I have shifted this debate towards the idea of staying away from RAW+ mode (as it consumes the buffer) but continue to write to both SD cards (especially during events, just to be sage) but then use the One Push File Format for Jpg shooting (and I think even though writing to both cards might slow things down, for the kind of shots I wanna do I think I'll get by, might even compare the quality of ** Jpgs vs *** etc.

I am now trying to see if I can pull out (from a DNG) the exact Jpg that the in camera Raw Development can manage, the thread is over here if you want to join in; FastStone Image Viewer and extracting Jpg's from RAW DNG's - PentaxForums.com

[monochrome]

If it takes so much to explain what you want to do no wonder it hasn't been implemented. K.I.S.S.

Yeah, I write software for a living

This thread is as convoluted as an undergraduate Philosophy 101 - Logic reading assignment I might have had 45 years ago.