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03-19-2019, 11:27 PM   #1
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K-1 One File Push Format Bug?

I think I found a bug for the K-1, would appreciate if other K-1 users could confirm.

I was playing with the idea of having a User Mode where I wrote 1 RAW to SD 1 and 1 Jpg to SD 2, ok? Yeah fine. Cool.

BUT I wanted my RAW/Fx1 button to toggle things, so that with a press of that button it would toggle the settings to being Jpg SD 1 and Jpg SD 2.

So, I want to go from;

RAW (SD1) + Jpg (SD2) > Jpg (SD1) + Jpg (SD2), and back again, at the push of the RAW/Fx1 button. I do not believe this is possible.

All I can achieve is a RAW + RAW > Jpg + Jpg

Let's be clear, RAW+ should be RAW written to one SD Card and Jpg to another, confirm yes? Because Under Menu 5>Button Customisation>Fx1 Button>One Push File Format> there is an option to select RAW+ > Jpg but it doesn't seem to work at all.

It gets quite convoluted because under Menu 2>Memory Card Options you might also have to select the right thing (write to one SD card, write to both, or write to RAW 1 and Jpg 2 (which I always took to being RAW+ mode).

Firmware 1.50.

Can anyone manage the holy grail and actually achieve either of these two combos (with the toggle of the Fx1 Button);

RAW SD1 + Jpg SD2 > JPG SD 1 + Jpg SD 2?

OR...

RAW SD1 + Jpg SD2 > Jpg SD 1 + nothing.


TIA!

Bruce

03-20-2019, 12:02 AM   #2
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The toggle of Fx1 only switches between two options (I first thought it could be a firmware bug, so I checked also on my K1 II and it's the same..), unless I missed something I haven't been able to switch over more than two settings by pressing Fx1 multiple times or long press. So, I've assigned the RAW/RAW+/JEPG to the first three tiles on my Info menu. The reason I've assigned the RAW/JPEG choice to the info menu is because if I shoot JPEG I may also want to change sizes (e.g. in case I shoot burst in low light) and if I apply a filter or not. I use the Fx1 button to switch On/Off SR or camera tilt display in the viewfinder.

Edit: the Fx1 button switches from current format to another format. Example, Fx1 switch defined as:

JPEG -> RAW = this means If the format is currently set to JPEG, pressing Fx1 will change the format from JPEG to RAW.
RAW -> RAW+ = this means If the format is currently set to RAW, pressing Fx1 will change the format from RAW to RAW+.
RAW+ -> JPEG = this means If the format is currently set to RAW+, pressing Fx1 will change the format from RAW+ to JPEG.

But pressing twice on Fx1 will not scroll through the format settings, it will simply revert to the previous format setting.


A change from anything to RAW+ will affect the SD1/2 setting, but a change from RAW to JPEG or JPEG to RAW won't affect SD1/2 settings.
The SD1/2 setting can be changed separately via camera menu or via customer tile in the Info menu.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 03-20-2019 at 12:41 AM.
03-20-2019, 12:43 AM   #3
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I just think it's broken. Consider this;

One Push Button set to RAW+ > Jpg

Now go to Menu 2>Memory Card Options, set it to any of the 3 options. You will never get a change in any setting that results in something > Jpg.

RAW+ > Jpg, be in Memory Card Option 1 (write to SD 1 only), press the RAW Fx1 Button and you toggle between > RAW SD1 RAW SD2 > RAW+ SD1 RAW+ SD2 (I guess it's writing a DNG + Jpg to both SD Cards?)

RAW+ > Jpg, be in Memory Card Option 2 (write to SD 1 and 2), press the RAW Fx1 Button and you toggle between > ^ exactly the same as above.

RAW+ > Jpg, be in Memory Card Option 3 (RAW SD1, Jpg SD2), press the RAW Fx1 Button and you toggle between > RAW SD1 JPG SD2 > RAW SD1 JPG SD2 (ie it doesn't toggle at all).

That doesn't seem right.


The Info shortcut is not a bad idea, I might see if that works as a workaround.

---------- Post added 03-20-19 at 06:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The toggle of Fx1 only switches between two options (I first thought it could be a firmware bug, so I checked also on my K1 II and it's the same..), unless I missed something I haven't been able to switch over more than two settings by pressing Fx1 multiple times or long press. So, I've assigned the RAW/RAW+/JEPG to the first three tiles on my Info menu. The reason I've assigned the RAW/JPEG choice to the info menu is because if I shoot JPEG I may also want to change sizes (e.g. in case I shoot burst in low light) and if I apply a filter or not. I use the Fx1 button to switch On/Off SR or camera tilt display in the viewfinder.

Edit: the Fx1 button switches from current format to another format. Example, Fx1 switch defined as:

JPEG -> RAW = this means If the format is currently set to JPEG, pressing Fx1 will change the format from JPEG to RAW.
RAW -> RAW+ = this means If the format is currently set to RAW, pressing Fx1 will change the format from RAW to RAW+.
RAW+ -> JPEG = this means If the format is currently set to RAW+, pressing Fx1 will change the format from RAW+ to JPEG.

But pressing twice on Fx1 will not scroll through the format settings, it will simply revert to the previous format setting.


A change from anything to RAW+ will affect the SD1/2 setting, but a change from RAW to JPEG or JPEG to RAW won't affect SD1/2 settings.
The SD1/2 setting can be changed separately via camera menu or via customer tile in the Info menu.
That's the issue. It doesn't toggle in this mode, when I am set to RAW+ already. I want it to go from RAW+ (ie SD1 RAW, SD2 Jpg) to being (SD1 Jpg and either SD2 nothing or another Jpg). SO basically... depending on how you have the Memory Card Option set up, it can actually do no toggling at all.

---------- Post added 03-20-19 at 06:52 PM ----------

It gets more weird, because you might think RAW+ could mean writing a RAW and Jpg to a single SD card, but I don't think that occurs ever, it always seems to write one RAW to one card and one JPG to another. So what does it think RAW+ > Jpg would do with the toggle under any Memory Card Option. I think this setting is actually pretty broken in many ways.
03-20-2019, 01:10 AM - 7 Likes   #4
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Why make life so complicated?

03-20-2019, 01:42 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Why make life so complicated?
Lmao. You love it Sandy! I keep the post and thread count high!

Would you actually be interested to know why I might like to toggle from RAW SD 1 Jpg 1 > Jpg 1 (and only Jpg 1, or the option of Jpg 2 as well)? It's actually quite logical.
03-20-2019, 02:23 AM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Would you actually be interested to know why I might like to toggle from RAW SD 1 Jpg 1 > Jpg 1 (and only Jpg 1, or the option of Jpg 2 as well)? It's actually quite logical.
Yes. I really would like to know why you would want to push an operating system beyond what any reasonable software engineer would consider to be required.

Just for fun, does any other camera manufacturer have a system which accommodates your perceived needs?
03-20-2019, 02:25 AM - 2 Likes   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Lmao. You love it Sandy!
No. I really don't. I only care about forum traffic from a qualitative viewpoint.
03-20-2019, 03:38 AM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
That doesn't seem right.
I think that you did not understand what I wrote (or I failed to write in a way to be understood).

The logic is that the goal of Fx1 is to change the file format used for storing images, but whether the files go into SD1 only [A], SD1 and SD2 (redundancy) [B], or RAW in SD1 and JPEG in SD2 [C] isn't programmed by Fx1.
So, if you want [A] or [B] or [C], you use the menu setting that defines where you want the files to go [SD1, SD1+SD2 etc]. And if you want to change the file formats from the current format set in your camera to another format you can either define it with Fx1 or go in the menu, or add those menu settings in you Info menu. The goal of Fx1 is to quickly alter just before a new shot, the default format you are using, it's no meant to go thru file format settings (the goal of Fx1 is to be quick).

Pentax fail to write extensive manuals, so we have to figure things out a bit, sometimes.

Anyway, I solved this problem in two ways, I don't use Fx1 for file formats. I customized my Info menu and I also have direct settings via User settings. For example, when I want to shoot dynamic, I have a user mode # 1 for landscape, usermode 2 for portraits and user mode 3 for dynamic shots, I turn the dial two clicks (I could even set User1 to portrait and U2 to landscape, so I'd only click the dial once) and everything is setup to shoot moving subjects (AFC Sel M, shutter speed 1/500, JPEG M ***, AWB, center weighted exposure). I turn the dial and it change a dozen of settings all at once, much better than Fx1.

The K1 settings are open in such way that we have to figure out how to set the camera for out own preferences, so it requires some thinking and tweaking and Ricoh Imaging can do it for us.


Last edited by biz-engineer; 03-20-2019 at 03:56 AM.
03-20-2019, 06:07 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Yes. I really would like to know why you would want to push an operating system beyond what any reasonable software engineer would consider to be required.

Just for fun, does any other camera manufacturer have a system which accommodates your perceived needs?
I have never used any other camera other than a K-50 then K-1 and then a KP. I think the Pentax is the most customisable?

I'll explain my reasoning below (but I'm really only qualifying if I have found a bug or not, that's the point of this thread). Besides, gaining further insight into the deeper workings of the system actually can make this simpler and more streamlined, not complicated... the exact opposite. First we have to understand it's inner workings. Only a few days ago did I discover a new cool feature of Live View AF! If you select AF focus to being Multiple AF Points (in LV) and then press the little directional pad button above the main D Pad, scrolling the aperture wheel changes the size of the multiple AF point grid, right down to a single point (and moves faster around the grid than the 'Select AF' point mode. You can also place that grid selection around the place a bit, neat! I've shared this feature with 3 other long term Pentaxian users this week who never knew about it (but appreciated it).

QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
No. I really don't. I only care about forum traffic from a qualitative viewpoint.
Savage remark!

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I think that you did not understand what I wrote (or I failed to write in a way to be understood).

The logic is that the goal of Fx1 is to change the file format used for storing images, but whether the files go into SD1 only [A], SD1 and SD2 (redundancy) [B], or RAW in SD1 and JPEG in SD2 [C] isn't programmed by Fx1.
So, if you want [A] or [B] or [C], you use the menu setting that defines where you want the files to go [SD1, SD1+SD2 etc]. And if you want to change the file formats from the current format set in your camera to another format you can either define it with Fx1 or go in the menu, or add those menu settings in you Info menu. The goal of Fx1 is to quickly alter just before a new shot, the default format you are using, it's no meant to go thru file format settings (the goal of Fx1 is to be quick).

Pentax fail to write extensive manuals, so we have to figure things out a bit, sometimes.

Anyway, I solved this problem in two ways, I don't use Fx1 for file formats. I customized my Info menu and I also have direct settings via User settings. For example, when I want to shoot dynamic, I have a user mode # 1 for landscape, usermode 2 for portraits and user mode 3 for dynamic shots, I turn the dial two clicks (I could even set User1 to portrait and U2 to landscape, so I'd only click the dial once) and everything is setup to shoot moving subjects (AFC Sel M, shutter speed 1/500, JPEG M ***, AWB, center weighted exposure). I turn the dial and it change a dozen of settings all at once, much better than Fx1.

The K1 settings are open in such way that we have to figure out how to set the camera for out own preferences, so it requires some thinking and tweaking and Ricoh Imaging can do it for us.
Yeah I do this too, in fact I use all my 5 User Modes up (I even bought a KP as my backup camera because it too has 5 User Modes that I could set as close to being the same as the K-1 for ease of operation when going between the two systems). I make sure to investigate all the shortcut things that were quick to do on the back of the camera without a Mode dial flip (such as change in metering mode, toggle to AF.C quickly etc) and try not to make a new User Mode for those kind of changes, instead the User Modes would be quite different, as you say 'Portrait' 'Landscape' etc where multiple things are quite drastically different.

Where I stumbled upon this is me actually trying to combine a couple of my User Modes into one mode so that I could free up a User Mode slot. I have two modes that are similar except one currently is set to Jpg only as it's geared towards action or brenizer shooting and therefore the quick shots and higher buffer ceilings are welcomed (as well as actually computing 30-50 DNG files in a brenizer is actually very intensive for my PC and is overkill), the other RAW.

Currently I shoot mainly RAW and write to both cards at once. So under Menu 2>Memory Card Options I am currently set to option 2 which is to write to both cards at the same time (Save to Both). I would like to try out shooting RAW+Jpg so that one card is RAW and the other card gets the JPG (Memory Card Option 3). But at the push of a button (Fx1 set to 'One Push File Format' (which I haven't actually used before and had that Fx1 set to something else in the past...) I would like it to toggle me from being my current set up (ie RAW+Jpg) to being Jpg only (because I will still get buffer issues if writing RAW as well as Jpg) with the single push of a button, but it doesn't appear you can actually do that combo. As soon as you set RAW SD1 and JPG SD2, the Fx1 toggle does nothing.


The best I can do is either;

a) Use one slot only and toggle between RAW>Jpg (and back again of course) or
b) Use both slots and be writing RAW to both and toggle both to Jpg (and back again of course) or
c) Use one slot only as RAW+ (writing a RAW & Jpg together to that one slot) > Jpg only or
d) Use both slots and be writing RAW+ (writing a RAW & Jpg together to each slot) > Jpg to each slot


So then, this leads me to ask this question. Why would anyone want to really use RAW+ function, it seems like it has no real benefit? Like... ok... so when you take a RAW file and look at the back of the LCD you're seeing the JPG Preview even when shooting just 'RAW'. You can prove this point by setting the camera to shoot BW (Monochrome), the review is monochrome but we all know that when you take the RAW file to whatever app you like to edit on it will be colour (ie RAW, and different software will render that RAW differently etc).
You can always derive the Jpg (as it was taken with those Jpg specific settings such as monochrome) from the RAW by having the SD card in the camera and then doing Playback>Downward Arrow>RAW Development>Single Image (or multiple or folder)>Develop images as shot. Surely this is doing exactly the same thing yet not placing the buffer and write speed under strain during the moment of shooting?

Furthermore, we can't actually have a User Mode where one writes to both cards at once (whatever you like, RAW + RAW, or RAW+ + RAW+ or Jpg + Jpp or RAW + Jpg) and then another User Mode set to write to just one card (such as Jpg), when you make those changes they apply (global) to all User Modes, correct?

So I get into trouble if I wanted to for example shoot and write to both cards at the same time (such as RAW on one card, Jpg the other, or RAW to both cards), and then toggle out to writing to just one card and select Jpg only, because once I finish that shot or session, even when I turn a User Mode dial I am left still shooting to one card (and it stays like that till I change it, even power downs won't reset it. I dunno... seems a little daft, I would have thought of all the combinations you can have a sensible one would be to be able to toggle with ease from shooting 2 cards at once (RAW for example) to shooting JPG only to one card (for maximum buffer experience) at the push of the file format button. Or that simply you could have one User Mode bound to writing to two cards and the other User Mode writing to one card, and you could toggle between the two, but unfortunately that setting is global, if you toggle out of writing to two cards you need to remember to toggle back again afterwards

I've been shooting a couple of years now, I rarely have buffer issues, but when I do it's a brenizer shot, shooting in a concert pit, a frantic wedding moment etc. It's the sort of thing you want to switch to for a moment and when the shot or panic is over resume (safely) as normal.

Why we're given the option of writing a RAW and Jpg to both SD Cards at once, seems like a ridiculous combo option, no (yes... that's 4 files written in a single shutter shot lol)? I just took a 5 bracketed shot (set to take the shots with one press of the shutter button) in RAW+ mode writing to both cards at once, the orange write button was lit for 30secs after the shot was taken lol (that's 20 shots it had to write in a single shutter press heheh)


Long story short, if you have RAW SD 1 and Jpg SD2 (Menu 2>Memory Card Option> Option 3) then One Push File Format just doesn't work in that mode at all.
03-20-2019, 06:25 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
So then, this leads me to ask this question. Why would anyone want to really use RAW+ function, it seems like it has no real benefit?
Or when not sure about exposure shoot RAW+ so that in case the JPEG is not recoverable redevelop the corresponding RAW with exposure adjusted in case of overexposure or underexposure?

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
when you make those changes they apply (global) to all User Modes, correct?
I'm not sure about that as it depends on what parameter is decided to be saved into memory, there is a branch of the menu for that.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
So I get into trouble if I wanted to for example shoot and write to both cards at the same time (such as RAW on one card, Jpg the other, or RAW to both cards), and then toggle out to writing to just one card and select Jpg only, because once I finish that shot or session,
You can do what you want with two parameters. 1) Get rid of one parameter you happen to never use in your info menus or a parameter that you can already program with the smart dial or any direct button already there for it; and set the SD1-2 memory slot selection at the tile that you freed up; 2) Use the Fx1 button to switch from RAW to JPEG.

Other possibility is to use the Fx1 button to do a function that is in your Info menu, get rid of a tile you never use, and used two tiles of the Info menu to set both RAW/JPEG and SD1/2 settings, you'll be fine with that.

For example, if you use SR in the Info menu, it is redundant because SR can be set via the top dials or via Fx1, etc. If you have AF mode and AE metering modes in the Info menu it is also redundant because you can change those with direct buttons, so that you can free up some tiles to add RAW / SD12 in the Info menu.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 03-20-2019 at 06:41 AM.
03-20-2019, 06:29 AM - 3 Likes   #11
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If it takes so much to explain what you want to do no wonder it hasn't been implemented. K.I.S.S.

Yeah, I write software for a living
03-20-2019, 06:47 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Long story short, if you have RAW SD 1 and Jpg SD2 (Menu 2>Memory Card Option> Option 3) then One Push File Format just doesn't work in that mode at all.
If you avoid the cases that don't work, and try to use the cases that do work, all of a sudden life becomes easy :-)

---------- Post added 20-03-19 at 14:51 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
If it takes so much to explain what you want to do no wonder it hasn't been implemented. K.I.S.S.
Had Pentax fitted only one SD cards like Canon and Nikon in their new models, the question of how to switch SD card modes wouldn't exist. That said, the sole SD card topic raised waves of criticism... camera customers are kinda tricky to deal with sometimes.
03-20-2019, 10:09 AM - 1 Like   #13
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Once again, suckered in by a strange and vain report of a feature that does not extend endlessly to satisfy a user's whim. (I am in a flourished prose mode this morning.)*

These posts are entertaining in that they are similar to math story problems from middle school. The first task is to pare away the superfluous details. The second is to divine the rational that drives the whim so that a constructive comment might be crafted! Unfortunately, this particular stream of discussion has failed to engage, so I deign not to give it much thought. (How is that for pompous conceit?)

Still though, I did give this one a try, even though the RAW/Fx button is one I seldom use and the case of RAW --> SD 1 and JPEG --> SD 2 is one I have no need for. The analysis is as follows:
  • With RAW as the usual capture mode, the behavior of the RAW/Fx button push is to put the camera in RAW+ mode (capture is written to both RAW and JPEG). The same is true if JPEG is the usual capture mode.
  • When in RAW+ set as a menu or control panel option, the RAW/Fx button does nothing unless configured in-menu to be either RAW or JPEG
  • RAW --> SD 1 and JPEG --> SD 2 is treated by the camera as a special case of RAW+. This is evident in that RAW+ is disabled as a menu option when RAW --> SD 1 and JPEG --> SD 2 is active. Also note that the viewfinder display indicates RAW+.
Conclusion: Most of the information in the three points above is extraneous except for the behavior of the button when RAW+ mode is the result of a menu or control panel setting. The case to toggle from explicit RAW+ using the RAW/Fx button is not supported unless explicitly set in the menu as JPEG or RAW (default is RAW+). Of course, this is the behavior on the K-3 (I don't have a K-1) which does not have more than one Fx button, but I would expect the behavior to follow, however. It may just be me, but this behavior seems logical.
Edit for clarity: Most of the information in the three points above is extraneous except for the behavior of the button when RAW+ mode is the result of the special case for RAW --> SD 1 and JPEG --> SD 2 where the button does nothing. In that case, there is ambiguity in regards to card save rules vs. button mapping. The camera assigns priority to the card save rule, simple as that. Giving button mapping priority would create issues of what card save convention to fail over to. Of course, this is the behavior on the K-3 (I don't have a K-1) which does not have more than one Fx button, but I would expect the behavior to follow, however. It may just be me, but this behavior seems logical.

Tomorrow's very important assignment: Fully explore the details of exposure bracketing, in particular the behavior when both EV comp and bracketing are used together with other than the default bracket order.


Steve

* This tone of this comment is whimsy and not intended to mock. Bruce's active mind often leads us into the bushes and sometimes the bushes hide very interesting things.

Last edited by stevebrot; 03-20-2019 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Completeness and correction
03-20-2019, 10:54 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Why would anyone want to really use RAW+ function
That is a very good question. The answer has to do with work flow and frequency of need. Remember that RAW+ is a mode, not a function. Using the Fx to toggle into RAW+ reflects infrequency of need. Setting it as the default means it satisfies a particular and persistent need, e.g. automated publication of JPEG during tethered operation or something similar.

My camera is set up with the default (both RAW and JPEG --> RAW+) for its RAW/Fx button. This suits me well in that I sometimes have an immediate need to share a JPEG image without having time to fiddle with in-camera RAW--JPEG or other RAW conversion.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 03-20-2019 at 11:24 AM.
03-20-2019, 01:30 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Or when not sure about exposure shoot RAW+ so that in case the JPEG is not recoverable redevelop the corresponding RAW with exposure adjusted in case of overexposure or underexposure?
But you get that when shooting simply 'RAW'. The point being every time you choose to shoot RAW+ you are writing data twice rather than once, so the buffer is getting throttled harder. Shooting RAW you always have the Jpg anyway and you place the buffer under less strain.


QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I'm not sure about that as it depends on what parameter is decided to be saved into memory, there is a branch of the menu for that.
Yes I had a look at that too, there is no way to get the Memory thing to assist here, with or without User Mode assistance. Choosing whether to write to one sd card, both sd cards or one RAW and one Jpg is a global setting carried over between shutdowns and not stored in User Mode settings. There's a few things that are global that we cannot bind to a user mode, such as Menu 5>Viewfinder Overlay and the various settings within. You can set some on/off, save User Mode but it doesn't matter, it won't stick, it simply will just be whatever you last left it at (the same way as what mode you choose to write the data too).
[I]We must also be clear that RAW+ and storing a RAW image on SD 1 and a Jpg on SD 2 is not the same thing.[/I]



QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
You can do what you want with two parameters. 1) Get rid of one parameter you happen to never use in your info menus or a parameter that you can already program with the smart dial or any direct button already there for it; and set the SD1-2 memory slot selection at the tile that you freed up; 2) Use the Fx1 button to switch from RAW to JPEG.

Other possibility is to use the Fx1 button to do a function that is in your Info menu, get rid of a tile you never use, and used two tiles of the Info menu to set both RAW/JPEG and SD1/2 settings, you'll be fine with that.

For example, if you use SR in the Info menu, it is redundant because SR can be set via the top dials or via Fx1, etc. If you have AF mode and AE metering modes in the Info menu it is also redundant because you can change those with direct buttons, so that you can free up some tiles to add RAW / SD12 in the Info menu.
I can do what I want with a few shortcut buttons, the issue is the change is permanent, it requires me to consciously 'put it back' after I go from say 'RAW SD1, JPG SD2 > JPG SD 1 only. I was really hoping the One Push File Format button was going to be the option to 'put things back' (or that a shutdown and reboot puts things back).


QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
If it takes so much to explain what you want to do no wonder it hasn't been implemented. K.I.S.S.

Yeah, I write software for a living
I'm actually trying to keep it simple.

Here's the point. We all know the Pentax write speeds and buffer limits are slightly trying at times. The K-1 gives us dual slots which many professionals will use in such a way to write data to both cards at once, so that if one sd card is lost, destroyed, gets buggy etc we still have the data on the other card. However writing to two cards at once places strain on the buffer. The idea of the One Push File Format button (I would have thought) would give the user the option to quickly stop writing to both cards at once and only use one, furthermore change the format to perhaps Jpg only (thus increasing our buffer limits). Or... A jpg shooter and wants to toggle to taking a shot with a RAW as well, just in case. This mode does indeed seem to be able to do that. It's just we seem to get some other odd combos such as writing a RAW and Jpg to both cards at once lol

But this mode actually cannot do that at all. It can't change you from writing from 2 cards to 1, you must still make that change in the menu or bind to Info shortcut, and if you actually have the Memory Option set to RAW 1 and Jpg 2 then the One Push File Format doesn't work at all.

The closest I can get is to choose RAW+ as my 'Menu 2>Image Capture Settings' and then write to one sd card only (risky), then I can use the One Push File Format button to toggle that from being a Raw & Jpg written every shot to just a Jpg. But as I am figuring out now I'm not sure there is any point at all to writing a RAW and a Jpg same time anyway, you get better buffer limits from writing just one RAW only (and you can get the Jpg from it any time you like).

Do we know if writing a RAW and Jpg to one sd card is quicker or slower than when we write a RAW to one sd card and the Jpg to the other?


QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Once again, suckered in by a strange and vain report of a feature that does not extend endlessly to satisfy a user's whim. (I am in a flourished prose mode this morning.)*

These posts are entertaining in that they are similar to math story problems from middle school. The first task is to pare away the superfluous details. The second is to divine the rational that drives the whim so that a constructive comment might be crafted! Unfortunately, this particular stream of discussion has failed to engage, so I deign not to give it much thought. (How is that for pompous conceit?)

Still though, I did give this one a try, even though the RAW/Fx button is one I seldom use and the case of RAW --> SD 1 and JPEG --> SD 2 is one I have no need for. The analysis is as follows:
  • With RAW as the usual capture mode, the behavior of the RAW/Fx button push is to put the camera in RAW+ mode (capture is written to both RAW and JPEG). The same is true if JPEG is the usual capture mode.
  • When in RAW+ set as a menu or control panel option, the RAW/Fx button does nothing unless configured in-menu to be either RAW or JPEG
  • RAW --> SD 1 and JPEG --> SD 2 is treated by the camera as a special case of RAW+. This is evident in that RAW+ is disabled as a menu option when RAW --> SD 1 and JPEG --> SD 2 is active. Also note that the viewfinder display indicates RAW+.
Conclusion: Most of the information in the three points above is extraneous except for the behavior of the button when RAW+ mode is the result of a menu or control panel setting. The case to toggle from explicit RAW+ using the RAW/Fx button is not supported unless explicitly set in the menu as JPEG or RAW (default is RAW+). Of course, this is the behavior on the K-3 (I don't have a K-1) which does not have more than one Fx button, but I would expect the behavior to follow, however. It may just be me, but this behavior seems logical.
Edit for clarity: Most of the information in the three points above is extraneous except for the behavior of the button when RAW+ mode is the result of the special case for RAW --> SD 1 and JPEG --> SD 2 where the button does nothing. In that case, there is ambiguity in regards to card save rules vs. button mapping. The camera assigns priority to the card save rule, simple as that. Giving button mapping priority would create issues of what card save convention to fail over to. Of course, this is the behavior on the K-3 (I don't have a K-1) which does not have more than one Fx button, but I would expect the behavior to follow, however. It may just be me, but this behavior seems logical.

Tomorrow's very important assignment: Fully explore the details of exposure bracketing, in particular the behavior when both EV comp and bracketing are used together with other than the default bracket order.


Steve

* This tone of this comment is whimsy and not intended to mock. Bruce's active mind often leads us into the bushes and sometimes the bushes hide very interesting things.
Bahahaha



QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is a very good question. The answer has to do with work flow and frequency of need. Remember that RAW+ is a mode, not a function. Using the Fx to toggle into RAW+ reflects infrequency of need. Setting it as the default means it satisfies a particular and persistent need, e.g. automated publication of JPEG during tethered operation or something similar.

My camera is set up with the default (both RAW and JPEG --> RAW+) for its RAW/Fx button. This suits me well in that I sometimes have an immediate need to share a JPEG image without having time to fiddle with in-camera RAW--JPEG or other RAW conversion.


Steve
Good points.

Can I ask... if the user chooses to shoot RAW only, and we know that in camera we can derive a Jpg of the shot with all the Jpg settings used at the time, can we do the same in 3rd party software such as LR? So, we eject the SD card from camera, put in PC, Import file to LR, it appears 'flat and RAW like' at first, taking on none of the appearance of how it was shot at the time, is there something we can do in LR or some other program that simply chews out the Jpg version from the RAW? I tried in my LR but can't figure out how to manage that.

Example; I just had my camera set to RAW only, I set my 'Custom Image' settings to BW (Monochrome), took the shot, and indeed it shows as being monochrome on the back of the LCD even though it's a RAW file (yes we know all this...).

I eject the SD card from the camera and let FastStone Image viewer 'look' at the image, it's showing the Jpg preview of the RAW file, I'm seeing it as monochrome. I import it to LR and despite playing around with the Camera Calibration processes and profiles I cannot see/generate the Jpg version as it was shot (monochrome/BW etc).

It might be that I can extract a Jpg from using FastStone, I just don't use that program in that way very much, I typically use it to view DNG's quickly and then choose which platform to launch for the edit (LR, PS, RawTherapee etc).

It's just it strikes me that if the Jpg Preview sticks with the RAW when you make a RAW, and the camera can extract a Jpg from the RAW during the in camera Raw Development mode, can we do the same but from a computer whereby we do it with many files and with stronger computing power (get the Jpgs from the RAWs quicker)? (FWIW I realise we can batch in camera also, it just takes a long time. I have had shooting sessions before, written only RAW and then on the way home set the camera to generate Jpgs from all the shots taken in the session, camera can be on for like an hour doing this task if there are a lot of shots...)
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