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04-25-2019, 05:57 AM - 2 Likes   #1
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Instant Review Bug?

I have a small little inconsistent quirk that I cannot figure out if it's a bug or a setting I need to change/have active in order to make the K-1 (and possibly KP though I haven't tested on that system) work 'properly'.

As a few of you know I like taking Brenizer shots from time to time, small brenizers such as these shots;







Each of these shots is 3 portrait orientated FA43 shots, 1 centre and 1 left and right.

Each of the shots was taken in Live View mode using AF Face Detection mode. I use Back Button focus only (AF2) and also have Custom Menu>8 AE-L with AF Locked selected (2). When I focus on the first shot (AF back button, shutter button does not activate focus) I now have my exposure locked for the next shots so long as I DO NOT take my thumb off the AF back button.

My erratic issue is that once you take a shot, sometimes whilst holding down the AF Button the Instant Review of the image just stays... it doesn't go away till you release the AF Button, and this then means you lose the AE-L. I have tried playing around with the Instant Review settings, 1 sec, 3, 5, Hold and even Off. When the bug occurs even in Off mode you just have a black screen INDEFINITELY until you release the AF button!! (in other Instant Review modes such as 1, 3 or 5secs it would just keep the review until you release.. ie you could hold for 30secs and the image will still be up and not resume to shooting mode).

Curious thing however is this is erratic and other times everything works as you'd expect. i.e. You focus with AF Back Button, whilst keeping it held down you take the shot with the shutter button, review comes up for a split 1/2 second, processes the shot and then takes you back to shooting mode (and you may now continue taking further shots with the AE-L still locked from the previous shot taken, which is what you want with this technique).

When I get the bug (and it's pretty often) it's like it's gone into Instant Review Hold mode regardless (even if you selected Off as the Instant Review mode!). The Instant Review shows and it will never go away until you release the AF Button (like I said... even when the Instant Review is set to Off or 1, 3 or 5 secs etc).

Has anyone noticed this quirk at all before?


TIA!

Bruce

04-25-2019, 06:45 AM   #2
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Is it possible you're accidentally bumping the review button? That wouldn't explain the blank screen though...
04-25-2019, 08:12 AM   #3
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Can't help with the question but I am loving the pictures
04-25-2019, 08:21 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
My erratic issue is that once you take a shot, sometimes whilst holding down the AF Button the Instant Review of the image just stays...
Just remove the instant preview then.

Nice pics, BTW. I give you a like :-)

04-25-2019, 12:36 PM   #5
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I thought it was standard practice with the Brenizer Method to use manual focus and exposure, and just leave them fixed for all shots.
04-25-2019, 01:32 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by BugsDogsAndSunsets Quote
Is it possible you're accidentally bumping the review button? That wouldn't explain the blank screen though...
Yeah nah that's not it.

QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Can't help with the question but I am loving the pictures
Thanks, I have more shots like these to take for an event tomorrow and would like to replicate this process smoothly.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Just remove the instant preview then.

Nice pics, BTW. I give you a like :-)
Nah that doesn't even work! As I said in my post, even if you set Instant Review to Off, then what happens is you take the shot holding the back AF button in LV, it processes the image, gives you a black screen and it will just stay indefinitely black until you release the Af button!

PS Thanks for the Like

QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
I thought it was standard practice with the Brenizer Method to use manual focus and exposure, and just leave them fixed for all shots.
As with all things there's more than one way to do things. I just streamlined my Av mode to behaving like this in case I wanted to do a brenizer that way. Once the AE-L is activated it's like as if you're taking the shots in Manual mode, everything stays fixed for the rest of the shots.
In the beginning I tried doing Manual Focus but I found my first shots on the subject would be a little off (nothing worse than asking for a person to stand still for a 30-60 brenizer shot only to review the first shot taken on the subject and it's soft focus!), which is why I then thought about the options of how to approach the shot with AF involved.
These shots I have here use Face Detection, which I find accurate and gives me greater peace of mind for the remaining shots involved, I hardly ever get bum FD shot, usually the Contrast Detection AF comes through with far more in focus shots vs PDAF.
Furthermore, when shooting wide open and then not using centre AF points, in PDAF you run an even stronger risk of the shot being out of focus, with CDAF (and like how I have illustrated with these shots) you can nail focus on the faces pretty well even when the AF point is far away from centre (mine would have been towards the edges here as I had my camera orientated in portrait mode rather than landscape).

I'm not sure how successful I would be to do an epic brenizer in LV mode, even when it works properly it is quite a lot slower in recovery between the shots, compared the 'pew pew pew' in OVF mode But for small portrait brenizers like this I find it works quite well (except for the odd occasion this bug seems to rear it's ugly head)!

Oh and you also want fixed WB for brenizer.
04-25-2019, 02:10 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
In the beginning I tried doing Manual Focus but I found my first shots on the subject would be a little off (nothing worse than asking for a person to stand still for a 30-60 brenizer shot only to review the first shot taken on the subject and it's soft focus!), which is why I then thought about the options of how to approach the shot with AF involved.
The technique I have seen recommended is to use AF for the very first shot, focusing on the subject's eye for example, and then switch to MF for all the rest.
04-25-2019, 02:26 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
The technique I have seen recommended is to use AF for the very first shot, focusing on the subject's eye for example, and then switch to MF for all the rest.
Yeah that can work too, that was my next 'evolution' step once I found 'all manual focusing' had it's risk. However, fumbling for that little AF/MF lever and togging off became more annoying than simply using AF Back Button focusing. As long as you select AF2 then the front shutter doesn't focus, use the rear AF Button for the first shot then either let go and front shutter the rest of the shots, or hold it down if not in Manual mode and make sure AE-L with AF Button is activated in menu. Back Button Focusing is made for Brenizers, it's super handy imo.

I'm all about User Modes, I use all 5 up, I would like more, and if I can I will 'double up' some types of shooting techniques into one mode, which is very much what this is doing. Av mode and Brenizer doesn't sound like it would work, and it doesn't, but with AE-L to AF selected and using Back Button Focus it works very well. Whether you choose to use OVF (faster but perhaps less accurate) or LV (arguably more accurate but slower) is up to you of course. I tend to use OVF for the large ones and LV for small 3-4 shots.

The odd thing is this bug. I mean I have literally had this happening so consistent that I can menu dive between attempts, change Instant Review from 1 sec to 5, or Off etc, try again and observe what happens. At first I thought I was going crazy, but no... there do seem to be random occasions where it doesn't matter what is selected in Instant Review, if you hold the AF Back Button focus button down it just simply 'locks up' after the shot. Like I said, it's like the Instant Review is in 'Hold' mode, but even if you have it set to Off it will Hold a black screen till you let go of the AF Button :/

Othertimes (thankfully more often than not) it will behave properly, you take the shot, and whilst AF button is still held down it processes the shot quickly, and even if Instant Review is set for 5secs it will not do that, it will sense that the AF Button is still pressed down and assumes the user wants to continue shooting. The Instant Review 1, 3 or 5 sec thing seems to only kick in when the shot is taken and then all hands off buttons and controls.

I've been trying to figure out of there is consistency with the bug, like perhaps I am in Single Frame mode vs High Continuous, or AF.S vs AF.C etc. Thus far it feels like it's just random.

04-25-2019, 05:03 PM   #9
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Ok here's some more info.

When I get this bug it doesn't matter if I set the IR (Instant Review) to 1, 3, 5 sec, Hold or even Off! What happens is this;

1) Live View Mode
2) Face Detection (but I bet it doesn't matter, another AF mode probably will do this bug too)
3) BBF, lock on face etc.
4)
5) Image is processed and review is displayed and will not ever ever go away unless I release the BBF. If I have the IR set to Off it keeps a blank black shot until BBF is released... :/

What SHOULD happen is this;
1) Live View Mode
2) Face Detection
3) BBF, lock face etc.
4) Take the shot using Shutter button (BBF still held down, front shutter button released)
5) Image is processed (you see the 'thinky circle icon thing briefly), but then SKIPS the IR completely REGARDLESS of setting (it's as if it knows you want to take another shot immediately because it can sense the BBF is still pressed down)
6) Resumes to shooting mode (ie you can see the LV screen, subject, even the FD box is moving around hunting again, but not locked... focus is still locked from the shot before) and you can take another shot (with exposure still locked from before due to never releasing the BBF).

This morning I have not encountered the bug and my system is doing it properly like in the latter explanation.

What I did note that was interesting and somewhat similar is doing the following;

1) Use OVF mode this time.
2) Have settings same as before, BBF and bound to AE-L with AF etc.
3) Have IR set to 1 sec only
4) Have Highlight alerts on.
5) Focus using BBF (I was in SEL mode)
6) Take the shot using Shutter button (BBF still held down, front shutter button released)
7) With the BBF still pressed down, note how the IR is on/showing... however it never goes away, it's on for 10secs or however long I hold the BBF button down for... completely overriding the 1 sec setting.
8) When I RELEASE the BBF the IR stays for an additional 1 sec and is only NOW showing the Highlight Alert.

So it's like IR is not actually kicking in until the very end, when you release the button, before is just showing a Review whether you like it or not... and if you set the IR to Off it will do the same thing but hold a blank black screen.

This is kinda perculiar, like I would have expected using the OVF for you to not get a constant review screen but instead return you to the info stuff of the back of the screen that is present in OVF mode before you take the shot (ISO, exposure meter and all that stuff). Hmm...

It's like because you are holding a button down, it's doing the IR Hold thing first, and then once released will then do whatever other IR setting you have selected (1, 3 or 5 sec etc).
Well... this is kinda the same thing I am getting when I do it in LV occasionally, it should let me resume shooting quickly and skip IR but it won't, kinda like how it behaves in OVF mode.
04-25-2019, 11:30 PM   #10
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The bug aside, why doesn’t you use the dedicated AE-L button?
Doesn’t it work to AF, AE-L, shoot. -Reframe, AF, shoot. -Reframe, AF, shoot.
No need for holding buttons down.
04-26-2019, 12:19 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
The bug aside, why doesnít you use the dedicated AE-L button?
Doesnít it work to AF, AE-L, shoot. -Reframe, AF, shoot. -Reframe, AF, shoot.
No need for holding buttons down.
On the KP because I think I have that button set for something else, for the K-1... because I'm lazy?

No but actually seriously I did some further testing today and here's what I discovered.

When things are actually working properly, what happens is actually pretty cool. When you are in LV mode, focus using the BBF, keep the button pressed down, take the shot with the shutter button, then the IR (Instant Review) is basically 'skipped' entirely and you are returned back to LV shooting mode as quick as it can manage (not obviously as fast as shooting OVF mode). I don't think having AE-L locked to AF matters in this regard, it's like the camera is aware you have BBF still pressed down and are therefore not finished shooting, instead of messing around and initiating any IR setting you have it takes you straight back to get shooting again. This is all because you keep the BBF button pressed down throughout.

If I was to use the AE-L button as you suggest, take the shot, release the BBF button... then the IR actually kicks in, and I might have to wait 1sec or 3 sec... whatever I have it as selected. It's slightly annoying that you can't bind the IR setting to a User Mode as it's global. So... from my perspective Pentax have perhaps intuitively or accidentally done something here that I appreciate (namely sensing you have an action button still held down and skips the IR and puts you right back in the action), it's just that the bug seems to occasionally not skip the IR and in fact is not using the IR setting, it just holds up the review for as long as you have the BBF button held down.

I'm not sure why it does it sometimes and other times not.

As I wrote before you can see a similar effect happening in OVF mode with BBF enabled.
04-26-2019, 01:11 AM   #12
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IIRC you can abort the IR by pressing a button, so are you sure you are not sort of wiggling the AF button sometimes which abort the IR, and sometimes you donít which give you the bug behavior?
(I donít have my K1 with me so canít test it myself at the moment.)
04-26-2019, 01:18 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
IIRC you can abort the IR by pressing a button, so are you sure you are not sort of wiggling the AF button sometimes which abort the IR, and sometimes you donít which give you the bug behavior?
(I donít have my K1 with me so canít test it myself at the moment.)
Nah it's nothing like that. I have a couple of users reporting they have experienced the same bug as well (different forum group, a facebook group). It's really noticeable because I shoot like this a lot, and then sometimes it just won't ever return to the shooting mode. You can have 1 sec IR selected, but it will act like 'Hold', only moving onto the actual IR selected (such as 1, 3, 5 secs or even off) after you let go of BBF. Usually occurs when you are doing paid work!
04-26-2019, 01:21 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Usually occurs when you are doing paid work!
Of course.
04-26-2019, 09:29 AM   #15
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I'm just curious to see the 3 shots that you merge.... only 3 shots seems to me a stiching not a Brenizer shots then I'm intrigued
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