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08-17-2019, 12:26 PM   #1
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Unwanted double exposures....

Hello,
I did bring my k1 mark 2 at the races last weekend..... Did used a pentax 150-450 dfa lens with a monopod.... I taught that I was stable enough to get some nice racing pics but I did ended with something that looks like double exposures.... But my camera was not set to take double exposures.... here a sample of what I got.... And you can see the ghost image when you zoom in....
thank you for all suggestion.

Charles

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08-17-2019, 12:32 PM - 1 Like   #2
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here what it look like in lightroom

here what it look like in lightroom when zoom in
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08-17-2019, 12:36 PM   #3
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Hello and welcome to the forums

At first glance, that looks to me like camera shake... which, given that you're shooting at 1/250s with a 450mm focal length, is possible (the camera's SR, if switched on, is good - but only so good)... I would try shooting at a higher shutter speed and see how you get on... at least 1 / focal length or faster to begin with...
08-17-2019, 12:49 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Hello and welcome to the forums

At first glance, that looks to me like camera shake... which, given that you're shooting at 1/250s with a 450mm focal length, is possible (the camera's SR, if switched on, is good - but only so good)... I would try shooting at a higher shutter speed and see how you get on... at least 1 / focal length or faster to begin with...
Ok that is a good advice.... I will try that and let you know as soon as I have the opportunity to try it.
thank you very much

Charles

08-17-2019, 01:58 PM - 1 Like   #5
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Hi Charles, and welcome to the wonderful world of Pentax Forums. Like BigMackCam said, I would start at 1/450 second shutter speed, or whatever the closest value is on this camera. Pentax's Shake Reduction is not supposed to be turned on when you are using a tripod. Using a monopod is the middle ground between tripod and handheld as far as camera movement goes. I would rather rely on faster shutter speeds, which I know will work. With your K-1 mark 2 you could certainly crank up your ISO higher than 640 and still get low noise images. My K-5 IIs can give respectable results up to about ISO 1600. It's much older than your K-1, and I'm sure ISO 1600 (or higher) on your camera would produce much better images. A higher ISO setting will let you use faster shutter speeds while keeping your aperture at f16. If I was shooting race cars, I'd want my shutter speed as fast as possible to freeze action and eliminate blur.
08-17-2019, 02:55 PM - 1 Like   #6
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I agree, it looks a lot like camera shake. I often shoot with my D-FA150-450 handheld, usually for birds in flight. I put the camera in TaV mode, and rarely shoot at a speed lower that 1/1000 and almost always a f8, where I've determined my lens resolves the sharpest image (note, there is not a lot of IQ difference between 5.6 and 8, so if it's a cloudy day, I'll open up my f-stop for more light). I set the Auto ISO cap at 12800. Personally, I found that camera shake with the D-FA150-450 is the number one reason I don't get a sharp image.


If you want figure out which combination of shutter speed, aperture and ISO work best for you, you can try this test. Mount the camera on a tripod, put the camera in AV mode, set the aperture to what is sharpest on your lens (usually f8 or f11), set the ISO at 100. Find a static object about 100 to 200 feet away from you, use Live View to focus on the subject, and take the shot (I like to test my camera lens by shooting the tops of power poles. There's always text and phone numbers on the equipment, so I know right away if my image is sharp or not. And it's not something I can see with the naked eye from a hundred or two hundred feet away). The resulting image is now your baseline image, and should be in the "tack" sharp category. (This is the key, you have to establish a baseline tack sharp image, whether you use Live View or Single Spot AF is up to you, I like to use Live View personally). Once you've established the baseline image, take the camera off the tripod, put it in TaV mode, keep your same aperture setting, start with a shutter speed of 1/500 and start taking handheld images of the same subject, increasing the shutter speed with each image, until you get an image that is equal to your baseline image. Once you have that, you know the neighborhood of settings you'll want to start with (there will always be variations based on a million outside factors). I recommend saving those settings in one of the USER modes, so you can just jump to them without have to remember them (then you can make minor adjustments as needed based on "environmental" conditions - i.e. shade vs. sun). You can do the same thing, using the monopod. Presumably the monopod will add another level of stability between the tripod technique and the handheld technique.


I find that the problem most people have using a long lens at the long end, is they haven't practiced enough with it to understand it's limits and it's strengths. A Super telephoto zoom is a lot less forgiving than a stand telephoto zoom and even more so than standard zooms.


When I first got my D-FA 150-450 lens, I found this particular PF article to be incredibly useful in learning how to really use this lens. I started with this and then made changes to the settings based on my shooting workflow style.

Guide to Camera and Autofocus Settings for Shooting Sports - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com
08-17-2019, 03:40 PM   #7
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I like it! I get the feel of the movement versus something completely frozen that looks parked, to me its more motion blur than shake since yer using a monopod....the shutter is fast enough where it may seem more like shake than blur...…certainly not a double exposure but blur

Last edited by Aaron28; 08-17-2019 at 04:04 PM.
08-17-2019, 03:56 PM - 2 Likes   #8
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The background looks blurry too, which makes me think you were moving the camera quite a lot. Make sure the camera is still, or increase the shutter speed to 1/1000 or faster. If I were trying to take this shot, I'd set the mode to TAv, shutter speed at 1/1000 and aperture to f8 and try to push the shutter button calmly. This should give you ISO around 1100-1600 for this shot, still very reasonable.

Try reading the book Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson, or something similar. This will help you get the ISO/Aperture/Shutter speed triangle in a way that will greatly improve your photography.

08-17-2019, 05:59 PM - 1 Like   #9
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Hello,
Yes I wanted the blur in the background.....
This way I can have result like this.....
Burry background, blurry wheels but sharp car.

---------- Post added 08-17-19 at 06:10 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by NiKoTinN71 Quote
Hello,
Yes I wanted the blur in the background.....
This way I can have result like this.....
Burry background, blurry wheels but sharp car.
I can see that in the last picture I was close to the ratio 1/focal length to have a sharp picture....
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08-17-2019, 09:52 PM - 4 Likes   #10
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For panning, you'll definitely want that slower shutter speed. And try try again until you get that sharp subject and the blurred background. Panning is a lot fun, and work, ha! I usually pan between 1/60th and 1/200th. I get more "keepers" with the faster shutter speed, but I get more interesting blur with the slower shutter speed. This one is 1/200 and is a 100% crop.
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08-18-2019, 02:44 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by NiKoTinN71 Quote
Unwanted double exposures....
Another vote for a slightly revised shooting technique... my suggestions, which also happens to be pretty much my MO for events like this.

If you were to open up the aperture from F16.0 to F4.5, you'd still be far enough away from the subject in terms of distance, to keep the whole car in apparent focus.

This nearly four stop gain would've increased your shutter speed to nearly 1/2000, which would allow hopefully for a more pleasing image.

With a K1 you could easily raise the ISO up to 800 or even a bit more, without any detriment to image quality. This would give you a little extra leeway to play with. When coupled with a monopod, it helps to take the weight off the arms when a long period of shooting is planned.
08-18-2019, 03:10 AM - 1 Like   #12
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One other thought, these cars have very tight suspensions and vibrate like crazy. You may be seeing the vibrations of the automobile. Especially if the car is hopping a bit around the corner. With a wet road surface this is even more likely. The camera may have recorded what is actually happening.
08-18-2019, 08:06 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by NiKoTinN71 Quote
Hello,
Yes I wanted the blur in the background.....
This way I can have result like this.....
Burry background, blurry wheels but sharp car.



I can see that in the last picture I was close to the ratio 1/focal length to have a sharp picture....
Not bad, given the dark and cloudy lighting conditions.

A suggestion, try some minor adjustments in post, the image will wake up a bit. Here is how I would fix it up:
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08-19-2019, 01:41 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aaron28 Quote
I like it! I get the feel of the movement versus something completely frozen that looks parked, to me its more motion blur than shake since yer using a monopod....the shutter is fast enough where it may seem more like shake than blur...…certainly not a double exposure but blur
Hello that make sense.....
Yes I was following the car to be able to have blurry wheels and background to have the speed effect
And they where moving fast....
Next time I will try to have the shutter speed a little bit faster but just a bit to not lose the blurry background and wheels.... And I will try to hold the lens differently.... I was holding it by the camera and the flexible junction of the lens and monopod....
I will also try to hold it by the camera and the zoom grip of the lens.... (a 150-450 lens that is very heavy after few minutes)
I will also try to practice more and try other adjustments by attending some practice sessions on some race tracs...

(forgive my bad english, I do speak french as my first language)

Charles
08-19-2019, 04:11 PM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by NiKoTinN71 Quote
Yes I was following the car to be able to have blurry wheels and background to have the speed effect
terrific! hope the opportunities are frequent for you to practice and chase down the shot(s!) you are desiring to capture

good luck and happy shooting!
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