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09-17-2019, 04:01 PM   #1
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Depth of Field - is there no mode selection for it?

Depth of Field is such an important part of good photography, yet with all the automation of modern camera, especially digital, I know of none in the Pentax world where it can be chosen as an exposure mode, much less even a presentation to the photographer when selecting an aperture and focusing distance. I admit that i have not explored all the features of the K10D which is my only digital, but I have never seen it referenced in all the reviews I've come across. I am thinking of purchase of a K1-II, but I have found no such reference in even the most detailed specifications and reviews. At all ranges from infinity focus scenic, a waterfall with mountains background, a candid portrait at a party, a dimly lit morning safari with an elephant's head to photograph, and a macro of a wildflower that is just 5 mm wide. It would be nice to easily specify the depth of field and have the camera select the settings. Or, at least present the depth of field when I make the setting selection / mode. ----- Am I missing something and just haven't read the instruction book? I know that the formula's for such are not that complicated.???

09-17-2019, 05:10 PM   #2
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Making it a bit simpler but perhaps good enough for your needs: there is a depth priority program line, and a bokeh priority program line. The default one tries to aim somewhere in the middle, to balance the aperture with the shutter speed.

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09-17-2019, 05:15 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tab Zee Quote
I know of none in the Pentax world where it can be chosen as an exposure mode
Things are that way because DOF doesn't affect exposure directly. Canon have A-DEP mode, but that is only useful as an aid for hyperfocal focusing.
09-17-2019, 06:01 PM - 3 Likes   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tab Zee Quote
I know of none in the Pentax world where it can be chosen as an exposure mode,
The KP can do DOF bracketing..... http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/support/pdf/kp.pdf

But the reason there is no DOF "mode" is because the DOF control is always underneath your thumb (the rear wheel)

QuoteOriginally posted by Tab Zee Quote
It would be nice to easily specify the depth of field and have the camera select the settings. Or, at least present the depth of field when I make the setting selection / mode
Do you mean type in the DOF you require in cm or inches ? Very long winded. How many of us are good at visualising distance ?

You have DOF preview options available already, much easier to see by stopping the lens down or chimping an actual shot.


Last edited by pschlute; 09-17-2019 at 06:09 PM.
09-17-2019, 06:02 PM   #5
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Do any cameras offer this?

As cool as the idea sounds, it would be tricky to implement controls for attaining a specific user-controlled DoF. Neither the required user interface or lens technology are easy..
09-17-2019, 06:40 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Do any cameras offer this?
The A-DEP mode on canon DSLRS are as close to it as this comes, and it requires a bit of user input through the AF system for measuring distances....and if the user makes demands outside the hardware's capabilities the camera just stops the lens all the way down and hopes the resulting diffraction blurred mess is the result the user wanted.
09-17-2019, 06:54 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tab Zee Quote
Or, at least present the depth of field when I make the setting selection / mode. ----- Am I missing something and just haven't read the instruction book? I know that the formula's for such are not that complicated.???
No, you are not missing anything. While even your K10D provides a program to prioritize focus over motion freeze, there is no camera that I am aware of that will allow user selection of a DOF range or even tell the user the DOF for the current settings. One reason why this may be so is that DOF is sort of a fuzzy concept in that it changes depending on viewing distance and magnification (in other words range of acceptable sharpness for a given magnification and viewing distance). As magnification increases, DOF approaches zero.*

So, what to do? If I am out shooting and don't want to worry much about focus, I put the camera in Av mode, set the aperture to f/8, and ISO to "auto". This works pretty well up to about 55m focal length, though one might a fair amount of noise in dim light as the ISO ramps up.


Steve

* Compare my avatar image on this post with the same photo on Flickr, linked below. Same photo, just bigger...now step back 15 feet.




Last edited by stevebrot; 09-17-2019 at 07:01 PM.
09-17-2019, 07:01 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
The A-DEP mode on canon DSLRS are as close to it as this comes, and it requires a bit of user input through the AF system for measuring distances....and if the user makes demands outside the hardware's capabilities the camera just stops the lens all the way down and hopes the resulting diffraction blurred mess is the result the user wanted.
Interesting... That makes sense. The user needs to focus the camera on the farthest subject, click to store that value, then point the camera at the the closest subject, click to store that value, then let the camera figure out the correct aperture and focus setting, then recompose and hit the shutter button.

For most simple lenses (e.g, ye olde helicoid), any given number of ticks or revolutions of the AF motor corresponds to a specific aperture for DoF purposes. The math is quite easy and the tick-to-aperture equation is constant across the full range of distances (for simple lenses). Thus, the camera can count the ticks between near and far focus, compute the aperture, move the lens to the tick-count mid-point, and be ready to fire off the shot.

Unfortunately, it would be super easy for the user to try to get a nearby face and a distant mountain in focus that requires a diffraction-blurred and impossible to set f/128.
09-17-2019, 07:06 PM - 2 Likes   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Compare my avatar image
I've bent my eyes every which way from Sunday on your avatar image over the years, I had convinced myself it was a slot canyon somewhere in the southwest, never saw a rose in it, 'til now.
09-17-2019, 07:10 PM - 4 Likes   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-Three Quote
I've bent my eyes every which way from Sunday on your avatar image over the years, I had convinced myself it was a slot canyon somewhere in the southwest, never saw a rose in it, 'til now.
For me it was always a Rhino.
09-17-2019, 07:14 PM - 2 Likes   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-Three Quote
I've bent my eyes every which way from Sunday on your avatar image over the years, I had convinced myself it was a slot canyon somewhere in the southwest, never saw a rose in it, 'til now.
QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
For me it was always a Rhino.
Ha! Ha! I can see how it could be either!


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09-17-2019, 07:54 PM - 2 Likes   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
For me it was always a Rhino.
I'm glad I'm not the only one, I saw it too!
09-17-2019, 08:20 PM - 1 Like   #13
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I'm trying to understand what such a mode would do exactly. Given the Av mode and TAv modes give you a way to hold aperture constant and that's the only thing you can manipulate in the exposure triangle to control depth of field when focal length and frame format is held constant. Depth to the subject and other factors of course impact the depth of field but the camera can't make me move or change lenses.
09-17-2019, 08:58 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I'm trying to understand what such a mode would do exactly.
The OP has another thread regarding the DOF scales on vintage lenses. I suspect they are wishing for similar functionality on modern cameras.


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09-17-2019, 09:40 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The OP has another thread regarding the DOF scales on vintage lenses. I suspect they are wishing for similar functionality on modern cameras.


Steve


I didn't get that impression, but perhaps I misunderstood. What does the Canon mode mentioned do?

Note the op specifically mentions both exposure mode and presentation.
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