K-1 sensor shake/vibration while on tripod help

**travelswsage** · 10-05-2019, 04:04 PM

Hi all,

Finally have a week of vacation and the wife and I drove up to Maine today. I set up in a brisk wind with the K-1 and the dfa 70-210. Zoom was at about 125 to 15omm. I normally focus manually in live view and shoot with electronic shutter and wireless remote. The setup was on a Feisol tripod and Manfrotto head rated at more than this weight. When I reviewed the first few shots I took (ranging from 1/8 to about 1/30 second) all were blurry. Watching the sensor magnified in live view it was obvious the sensor in the camera was shaking, although there was no visible camera movement, the bubble levels on tripod weren't moving, and everything was locked down tight. In fact, the sensor never stopped moving and the only way to get a sharp shot was to raise the shutter speed. Can a brisk (but not overbearing) wind cause the sensor to shake or vibrate and blur shots even if there is no outward sign of camera movement? If shake reduction is off (because remote is enabled) shouldn't the sensor be locked in place?

Any help or thoughts appreciated.

**sergysergy** · 10-05-2019, 04:19 PM - **1 Like**

Wind could definitely make that happen. Even the weight of the camera and/or lens may cause some movement. You should upload some of those images to get a better idea of might have happened.

photoptimist · 10-05-2019, 04:38 PM - **3 Likes**

With a telephoto focal length and a high resolution sensor, even a minuscule movement of only 0.001 inches (0.025 mm) is enough to create a 5 pixel blur.

A few ideas:

1) Double check that SR really is turned off on the INFO screen. "Off" is the default for the K-1 in remote mode but it can be switched so SR stays on in remote mode which can cause problems.
2) Double check that all movements/adjustments on the tripod & head are locked down solid -- a loose adjustment is much more vibration prone.
3) Make sure the camera's neck strap is not flapping in the breeze.
4) Drop the center column of the tripod and lower tripod (thin sections first) for both better stiffness and a lower profile in the wind.
5) Use an umbrella to block the wind.

wings · 10-05-2019, 05:43 PM - **1 Like**

Common problem in astronomy as well. In addition to suggestions already you can do a few things. Make sure that the ground that you place the tripod on is firm and avoid damp areas, even walking around that will cause vibration. You can even bring your own pads of your choosing, could be just boards. They make weights for tripods and there is a weight bag that attaches to the tripod to place rocks or other weights into it such as, this, https://smile.amazon.com/Vanguard-SB-100-Stone-Bag/dp/B0051OGJQE/ref=sr_1_4?...tronics&sr=1-4.

**travelswsage** · 10-05-2019, 05:54 PM

Thanks for the answers. I'm glad to hear that the wind could cause this and not some problem with the sensor. Checking the exif it was 1/6 second and at 170mm and shake reduction was off. I'll almost certainly hit some wind again this trip and will try again making sure everything is totally locked down. I don't have a camera strap, and don't use a center column specifically to avoid vibration problems. I also have my old bogen 3021 with 3047 head along which is sturdier than the Feisol to see if this makes a difference -- I hate carrying that thing though. Love the umbrella idea -- will give that a try also.

**dms** · 10-05-2019, 06:40 PM - **1 Like**

A bean/sand bag placed on the lens and camera should help, likely more than a heavier tripod head. Even holding the camera with the fleshy pads of your hands while on tripod may work at moderate shutter speeds.

tokyoscape · 10-05-2019, 06:59 PM - **2 Likes**

I used to have a similar problem and I do this when on a tripod now. Hang a bag and do not extend the center column.

But I do not use big lens too, so I don't really have much problem now. Some time it is not the tripod or camera body that move but the long lens is vibrated by wind, etc

Or may be tried to low the tripod to close to the ground as possible.

**kiwi_jono** · 10-05-2019, 08:06 PM - **1 Like**

I agree with tokyoscape, its probably tripod movement. At longer focal lengths even the tiniest movement makes a difference. I don't know what tripod you have but some are sturdier than others.
I must admit, I have a CF travel tripod (Sirius) which is convenient enough to actually carry but its not the sturdiest tripod sometimes (especially when breezy) - however If I hang my camera pack under the tripod it makes a big difference!

**StiffLegged** · 10-06-2019, 06:44 AM - **1 Like**

Very likely tripod movement, especially wind induced. I don't know your tripod, but there are reasons for big heavy tripods and heavy tripod heads.

**othar** · 10-06-2019, 08:53 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by travelswsage

Checking the exif it was 1/6 second and at 170mm and shake reduction was off.

When you don't need the tripod for long exposures (blurry clouds in the sky, blurred water movement, star trails or other photographic effects) it is better to raise the ISO (until you reach your personal limit for sensor noise) and take the picture handheld with SR on in windy weather conditions.
If there is no way around using a tripod when there is wind the others have already given some good advise as:
-use weights to stabilise your tripod
-if available on your tripod don't extend the single middle column

-make sure it is mounted as near to the ground as possible for reaching a desired viewpoint (to reduce the windage) - if possible use stone pillars or other available places in your surroundings, because they are usually more sturdy than a tripod (with a bag of beans to support your camerapositioning)

MJKoski · 10-06-2019, 10:52 AM - **1 Like**

That speed range in the original post is just the range where both mk1 and mk2 have shutter shock issues. There is no way around other than the electronic shutter mode and using 2sec delayed drive mode. I recommend using ND to slow down enough to get to few seconds or speed up to 1/100 or faster in any case.

texandrews · 10-06-2019, 11:14 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by tokyoscape

I used to have a similar problem and I do this when on a tripod now. Hang a bag and do not extend the center column.

But I do not use big lens too, so I don't really have much problem now. Some time it is not the tripod or camera body that move but the long lens is vibrated by wind, etc

Or may be tried to low the tripod to close to the ground as possible.

This image shows the incorrect way to do the bag hang from the center column---done this way allows the bag to swing. I used to do this until I learned to do it the right way.

The bag should be contacting the ground and hooked to the column hook with a strap or bungee cord to tension the bag-column connection. In higher winds use as low a profile strap as possible, add a twist or 2 so that the wind does not set up a vibration in the strap.

**travelswsage** · 10-06-2019, 05:16 PM

Well the wind was even worse today -- the heavier tripod and a shorter lens helped a little but not much. After a while I went to a higher ISO and higher shutter speed to get the shot. I don't have a way to hang the bag from the tripod and will definitely rig something up so I can do so in the future once I get back home.

For the shutter shock issue is this a problem even with the electronic shutter so that I should use a 2 second delay?

Thanks for all the helpful responses ...

wings · 10-07-2019, 09:13 AM

Just a thought. You might look for opportunities to sit camera on a rock or other object instead of using the tripod. I have often used my bag to steady and position the camera and used the remote or timed shutter release.

MJKoski · 10-07-2019, 02:05 PM

TBH, I have never used the electronic shutter feature without 2sec delay which is the drive mode I always use. It might work without it but not sure. It is rather easy to eliminate wind though. As explained above, press the combo firmly against a rock and shoot away. If that helps, then the tripod needs to be stabilized.

10-05-2019, 04:04 PM	#1
travelswsage Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 385	K-1 sensor shake/vibration while on tripod help Hi all, Finally have a week of vacation and the wife and I drove up to Maine today. I set up in a brisk wind with the K-1 and the dfa 70-210. Zoom was at about 125 to 15omm. I normally focus manually in live view and shoot with electronic shutter and wireless remote. The setup was on a Feisol tripod and Manfrotto head rated at more than this weight. When I reviewed the first few shots I took (ranging from 1/8 to about 1/30 second) all were blurry. Watching the sensor magnified in live view it was obvious the sensor in the camera was shaking, although there was no visible camera movement, the bubble levels on tripod weren't moving, and everything was locked down tight. In fact, the sensor never stopped moving and the only way to get a sharp shot was to raise the shutter speed. Can a brisk (but not overbearing) wind cause the sensor to shake or vibrate and blur shots even if there is no outward sign of camera movement? If shake reduction is off (because remote is enabled) shouldn't the sensor be locked in place? Any help or thoughts appreciated.

10-07-2019, 09:13 AM	#14
wings Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 209	Eliminating vibration Just a thought. You might look for opportunities to sit camera on a rock or other object instead of using the tripod. I have often used my bag to steady and position the camera and used the remote or timed shutter release.

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10-05-2019, 04:19 PM - 1 Like	#2
sergysergy Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,175	Wind could definitely make that happen. Even the weight of the camera and/or lens may cause some movement. You should upload some of those images to get a better idea of might have happened.

10-05-2019, 04:38 PM - 3 Likes	#3
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,128	With a telephoto focal length and a high resolution sensor, even a minuscule movement of only 0.001 inches (0.025 mm) is enough to create a 5 pixel blur. A few ideas: 1) Double check that SR really is turned off on the INFO screen. "Off" is the default for the K-1 in remote mode but it can be switched so SR stays on in remote mode which can cause problems. 2) Double check that all movements/adjustments on the tripod & head are locked down solid -- a loose adjustment is much more vibration prone. 3) Make sure the camera's neck strap is not flapping in the breeze. 4) Drop the center column of the tripod and lower tripod (thin sections first) for both better stiffness and a lower profile in the wind. 5) Use an umbrella to block the wind.

10-05-2019, 05:43 PM - 1 Like	#4
wings Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 209	Common problem in astronomy as well. In addition to suggestions already you can do a few things. Make sure that the ground that you place the tripod on is firm and avoid damp areas, even walking around that will cause vibration. You can even bring your own pads of your choosing, could be just boards. They make weights for tripods and there is a weight bag that attaches to the tripod to place rocks or other weights into it such as, this, https://smile.amazon.com/Vanguard-SB-100-Stone-Bag/dp/B0051OGJQE/ref=sr_1_4?...tronics&sr=1-4.

10-05-2019, 05:54 PM	#5
travelswsage Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 385 Original Poster	Thanks for the answers. I'm glad to hear that the wind could cause this and not some problem with the sensor. Checking the exif it was 1/6 second and at 170mm and shake reduction was off. I'll almost certainly hit some wind again this trip and will try again making sure everything is totally locked down. I don't have a camera strap, and don't use a center column specifically to avoid vibration problems. I also have my old bogen 3021 with 3047 head along which is sturdier than the Feisol to see if this makes a difference -- I hate carrying that thing though. Love the umbrella idea -- will give that a try also.

10-05-2019, 06:40 PM - 1 Like	#6
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	A bean/sand bag placed on the lens and camera should help, likely more than a heavier tripod head. Even holding the camera with the fleshy pads of your hands while on tripod may work at moderate shutter speeds.

10-05-2019, 06:59 PM - 2 Likes	#7
tokyoscape Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,256	I used to have a similar problem and I do this when on a tripod now. Hang a bag and do not extend the center column. But I do not use big lens too, so I don't really have much problem now. Some time it is not the tripod or camera body that move but the long lens is vibrated by wind, etc Or may be tried to low the tripod to close to the ground as possible.

10-05-2019, 08:06 PM - 1 Like	#8
kiwi_jono Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,437	I agree with tokyoscape, its probably tripod movement. At longer focal lengths even the tiniest movement makes a difference. I don't know what tripod you have but some are sturdier than others. I must admit, I have a CF travel tripod (Sirius) which is convenient enough to actually carry but its not the sturdiest tripod sometimes (especially when breezy) - however If I hang my camera pack under the tripod it makes a big difference!

10-06-2019, 06:44 AM - 1 Like	#9
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,634	Very likely tripod movement, especially wind induced. I don't know your tripod, but there are reasons for big heavy tripods and heavy tripod heads.

10-06-2019, 08:53 AM - 1 Like	#10
othar Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 3,098	Originally posted by travelswsage Checking the exif it was 1/6 second and at 170mm and shake reduction was off. When you don't need the tripod for long exposures (blurry clouds in the sky, blurred water movement, star trails or other photographic effects) it is better to raise the ISO (until you reach your personal limit for sensor noise) and take the picture handheld with SR on in windy weather conditions. If there is no way around using a tripod when there is wind the others have already given some good advise as: -use weights to stabilise your tripod -if available on your tripod don't extend the single middle column -make sure it is mounted as near to the ground as possible for reaching a desired viewpoint (to reduce the windage) - if possible use stone pillars or other available places in your surroundings, because they are usually more sturdy than a tripod (with a bag of beans to support your camerapositioning)

10-06-2019, 10:52 AM - 1 Like	#11
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	That speed range in the original post is just the range where both mk1 and mk2 have shutter shock issues. There is no way around other than the electronic shutter mode and using 2sec delayed drive mode. I recommend using ND to slow down enough to get to few seconds or speed up to 1/100 or faster in any case.

10-06-2019, 11:14 AM - 3 Likes	#12
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by tokyoscape I used to have a similar problem and I do this when on a tripod now. Hang a bag and do not extend the center column. But I do not use big lens too, so I don't really have much problem now. Some time it is not the tripod or camera body that move but the long lens is vibrated by wind, etc Or may be tried to low the tripod to close to the ground as possible. This image shows the incorrect way to do the bag hang from the center column---done this way allows the bag to swing. I used to do this until I learned to do it the right way. The bag should be contacting the ground and hooked to the column hook with a strap or bungee cord to tension the bag-column connection. In higher winds use as low a profile strap as possible, add a twist or 2 so that the wind does not set up a vibration in the strap.

10-06-2019, 05:16 PM	#13
travelswsage Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 385 Original Poster	Well the wind was even worse today -- the heavier tripod and a shorter lens helped a little but not much. After a while I went to a higher ISO and higher shutter speed to get the shot. I don't have a way to hang the bag from the tripod and will definitely rig something up so I can do so in the future once I get back home. For the shutter shock issue is this a problem even with the electronic shutter so that I should use a 2 second delay? Thanks for all the helpful responses ...

10-07-2019, 02:05 PM	#15
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	TBH, I have never used the electronic shutter feature without 2sec delay which is the drive mode I always use. It might work without it but not sure. It is rather easy to eliminate wind though. As explained above, press the combo firmly against a rock and shoot away. If that helps, then the tripod needs to be stabilized.